Discussion Opinion on GX Pokémon (GX VS. EX)

[Saksme]

I agree with @bbninjas, @Emskas, and @Otaku. They essentially have recreated an old product, meant to sell packs of cards to kids, but the strategies created with the GX attacks will be really interesting to see. I could predict Pokemon creating some other kind of trainer card like Ace-Spec cards down the line. Could we call these GX trainers ? On the real, the GX attack mechanic is probably something that we'll see for a while, and then fade away. It will be absolutely interesting to see what people are able to make of them though.

 

[__abrams__]

I want to wait to see the attack costs and whatnot of the two original GX Pokémon before I judge, but I'm a fan thus far.

 

[mordacazir]

I love the art of GX pokemon, but the strenght of some GX attacks is insane! Like lunala's GX attack, that just can get you that 2 prizes you need. And also Tpci has to make it even better with a ability!

 

[Athena]

Honestly, my entire opinion on GX cards is hinging on whether or not they will have textured FAs.

 

[superdan51]

Are actually still pretty fast. Just a point I wanted to make; what most people think of as a "slow" deck is actually pretty fast. I mean even if you don't go second, Wally on your first turn, and get multiple Frogadier in play so that by your second turn you're hitting Greninja (possibly Greninja BREAK with a second Wally), that is still some insane speed. Unprecedented? Once the original version of Rare Candy hit back in EX: Sandstorm and especially when we had Broken Time-Space we've had this kind of speed. That first thing is from shortly after Nintendo took over the TCG, so its been quite a while. XD Still, I believe it worth pointing out that if you're focused on a deck that swarms Stage 2 or 3* Pokémon, such a thing taking three or four turns is not truly slow.

*Just treating the BREAK Evolution of a Stage 2 as a Stage 3 for simplicity's sake.

I completely agree, and if we look at it like that, remember Garchomp C days? Before and after pokemon collector that shit was broken off the charts. Those were really the days were you had a lot of options with level Xs and uxie and whatnot. There were times before shaymin that were even worse ahaha

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I think the problem is with the players of the game so let me explain. The players expect the cards to do all the work for them and not the other way around. While the deck was hard to beat, LuxChomp was one of the most skill based decks the game saw for its time. There weren't many cards that won games just because you played them. I don't recall the formats before being better because they all had something wrong with them but skill was part of the game. Nowadays, a card is considered bad if it can't nuke something the turn it hits the field. I think a large offender of this is the damage keeps getting higher and that the weakness system is still x2 and not +30.

The fact the game is forcing itself to be more evolution based is good but we'll still have the same issues now. Evolving Basics still have 40 to 60ish HP and then the GX Pokemon go right to at least 200. Evolving Basics just exist to evolve and if something breaks that mold (I.E. Frogadier, Gabite), then tend to be broken because they are too fast for other evolution based deck. Seriously, Greninja BREAK will be broken in a SM format simply because it was designed to KO EX Pokemon.The game will be unbalanced going into SM and if the XY cards are still a thing, the cards being designed for SM will take on bad habits just to fight against cards that are still legal from the XY block.

A problem is they keep changing mechanics or adding new ones while keeping cards from two different blocks legal and refusing to actually ban anything to keep a healthy meta. This isn't a problem with other card games.

 

[superdan51]

I think the problem is with the players of the game so let me explain. The players expect the cards to do all the work for them and not the other way around. While the deck was hard to beat, LuxChomp was one of the most skill based decks the game saw for its time. There weren't many cards that won games just because you played them. I don't recall the formats before being better because they all had something wrong with them but skill was part of the game. Nowadays, a card is considered bad if it can't nuke something the turn it hits the field. I think a large offender of this is the damage keeps getting higher and that the weakness system is still x2 and not +30.

The fact the game is forcing itself to be more evolution based is good but we'll still have the same issues now. Evolving Basics still have 40 to 60ish HP and then the GX Pokemon go right to at least 200. Evolving Basics just exist to evolve and if something breaks that mold (I.E. Frogadier, Gabite), then tend to be broken because they are too fast for other evolution based deck. Seriously, Greninja BREAK will be broken in a SM format simply because it was designed to KO EX Pokemon.The game will be unbalanced going into SM and if the XY cards are still a thing, the cards being designed for SM will take on bad habits just to fight against cards that are still legal from the XY block.

A problem is they keep changing mechanics or adding new ones while keeping cards from two different blocks legal and refusing to actually ban anything to keep a healthy meta. This isn't a problem with other card games.

Oh I completely agree, I still wish my local had wayback Wednesday nights when we would play decks from all different times. People didnt have the cash to pay to make decks from older sets so they stopped doing it. I enjoyed playing older decks a lot, they just seemed a lot more unique. Its like expanded, you have a lot of options. I like what we see from SM1 so far, but I do know by SM12 theres really gonna be some weird power creep thats gonna change everything again

I wish rotation would go by generation. Like from XY1-XY12 would be one rotation, and then when SM1 comes out all XY sets rotate. This way we go into a new generation fresh and new. It would get a lot better over time, and it would make each rotation feel special. Idk im just rambling greninja break is in the format for another two years. Once ROS gets rotated EX decks will slow down, greninja will pace better with EX and GX decks and its gonna become tier 1, especially with that new one that can spread 20 damage to all pokemon on top of GWS

 

[postmodern_pinko]

I have done no testing with proxies or anything, so I could easily be mistaken, but my "second" impression as it were is actually worse than my first.

The one positive is something multiple people already disagree with me on in this thread: higher HP. Not higher damage output or stronger effects, but higher HP all around would be beneficial to the game; it gives the designers more wiggle room and helps slow down the pace of the game. If someone new to the boards is reading this, I have gone on at length about the pacing of this game being too fast for its own mechanics; we don't need stronger Evolutions, we don't need weaker Basics, we just need slower (when it comes to attacking for damage) Basics with those that Evolve focused on aiding set up and those that don't mostly just stuck sitting there for a turn or two. Tah-dah, now that card advantage you gain from running Basics becomes a matter of running additional cards to set up and you just don't have a speed advantage. No need to try and figure out how to design a Basic that hits hard ASAP with an Evolution that takes a turn or two to hit the field and yet are both roughly equal. Hard to believe now, but there was a time when we had the opposite problem because of that approach: Basics were usually garbage and Evolutions dominated the game.

[. . .]

Oh, and the one positive I mention is marred because it is only Pokémon-GX making the jump. We need everything to make the jump, and since we aren't playing a single player game where we can grind for experience but are Benching and Evolving Pokémon during the match, that HP needs to be "front-loaded" onto the Evolving Basic Pokémon. Yes, this was the short version.

Glad somebody else brought this up. Fundamentally--that is, at the level of mechanics themselves--the two aspects of the game that have the most control over the meta are damage done and HP. How do you move away from an OHKO format (aka how do you slow the pace of the game)? Reduce damage, increase HP, or both? This differs from, say, rotating Battle Compressor, which was a fairly normal card but, given several different cards that synergized with it, critically increased the pace of the game.

The reason it's important to slow the pace of the game, incidentally, is so that multiple high-level strategies can be viable. Big Basics can thrive in a fast game AND a slow game. Evolutions can only survive in a slow game. Generally.

Relating to GX cards, I think they'll be a good replacement for EX cards. For um. Those reasons. Front loaded my argument.

The GX attacks haven't been overwhelming thus far. I'd need more information to make an assessment on that end, but most of these GX attacks have in fact been substantially WORSE than a number of normal attacks.

Anyway, I've sort of developed an obsession with the Pace of Life and a field called Dromology, so if you're (anyone is) interested in the theoretical/scholarly basis (post explodes from pretentiousness), check out this video: Hartmut Rosa on Social Acceleration.

 

[Rusery]

This is how it always should have been with these powerful HP values. It was a shame that they moved away from this all these years with basics having more HP than all stage 2s. From here, i do hope they are still uncommon to see but overall its a good direction over a more dominant basic-ex situation which has tainted the game for so long.

From turn 1 i don't want to feel like its a race to beat out massive damages, and it would be nice to attack with a 50hp basic pokemon again for damage against the opponents basic 50hp pokemon. Alas, those days are forever gone.

 

[Otaku]

This is how it always should have been with these powerful HP values. It was a shame that they moved away from this all these years with basics having more HP than all stage 2s.

Historically the Pokémon TCG has a history of over correction. S'why I don't expect much from the Pokémon-GX; I'd much rather the powers-that-be stop creating hard hitting combos (let alone single cards) and bulk up HP across the board. It strikes me as someone working on solving an equation, but refusing to touch one side of it when it is painfully obvious that's the side that needs work done. Whatever Stage the designers favor, no surprise it becomes dominant. But what if they evened out the end results, the fully Evolved forms (which includes non-Evolving Basics) and balanced things out on the other side; useful Evolving Basics, Useful Evolving Stage 1 forms, not making Basic Pokémon into main attackers that can set up and start attacking for damage T2 (T1 without the current rules). Ideally the powers-that-be would bulk up HP scores on newer cards (again at all levels) and have early attacks focus more on setting up, no longer doing damage, so that we might get our first turn attacks back.

Maybe it is just rose-colored glasses, but I really enjoyed using my first few attacks for set up instead of pushing for an early lead.

 

[ReapThaWhirlwind]

I'm pretty sure the GX stands for Grand Cross—which is a high rank of nobility in chivalric orders.

As for the cards themselves, they seem to be stretching the game to more extensive lengths. The Basic GX can be expect to be played the same as any Pokémon-EX. However, many evolutionary GX will likely have to be played in split-techs (of 2-2 or 1-3) with non-GX evolutions, given the elevated prize count Pokémon GX boast.

Considering this though, I instantly recognize some really interesting potential here to make more explicit use of Devolution Spray with evolutionary GX—to remove the 2 Prize condition whenever your GX is close to a knockout—and instantly jump evolution back up to GX with an awaiting pre-evolution Pokémon from the bench.

Players will definitely have to find more intricate ways to adapt a play around the 2-Prize give up, despite any additional power they boast. Evolutionary Pokémon already face the surmounting challenge of the time-lapse evolution climb, an aspect that sets them strongly against the pace of the game. The only thing that conventionally balances this out, is the fact that the can be significantly powerful, and only give up a single prize when Knocked Out.

It's going to be interesting to see the way the game adapts to this new suite, and how players tend to make best use of their single GX attack per game. I already notice that some of them appear to have varying degrees of beginning, middle, and end game use—just the same as I had envisioned when developing my own GX.

For example, certain GX attacks you're best off at the start of the game, to offset the damage stack or game strongly when it's in the grind. Others you'd want to use in the mid-game to keep the balance in your favor through a tight corner. And the hardest ones to use seem to be targeted for the end-game, where they boast tremendous power, but only if you can stack up the favorable conditions, and keep them from being toppled over on you throughout that time.

I welcome it really. Harmless addition to the game that should make it a little more interesting. It's too bad the same can't be said for the art directions poor decision to make the Old Style template so hard on the eyes, and appropriate it for new era cards that have no place with that designation. Really disappointed with Nihon on Evolutions for this. As stylish as they over there, I can't believe they would make a poor style decision such as this. It's truly ruined a number of great cards for me.

 

[Squirtle Squad]

Evolution GX lines will have to be wary of Espeon EX (Expanded) with its devolution attack. GX evolved Pokémon have a much larger health than their previous stages.

 

[TheGuardian118]

Evolution GX lines will have to be wary of Espeon EX (Expanded) with its devolution attack. GX evolved Pokémon have a much larger health than their previous stages.

The Espeon EX from breakpoint has a one cost, any energy attack that devolves all enemy Pokémon, which is still in standard.

 

[Robin Aisaga]

Hm, I just remembered a slightly forgotten card: Wally (ROS)

I think his potential rised again, the card was meant as support for regular stage 1-2 Pokémon. EX Pokémon were ruled out since it would make Mega evolutions too much of a thread, But you know, it says nothing about GX Pokémon nor BREAK. Since the last reveal I think it's save to talk about Lunala and Solgaleo freely, however if you want to stay completely in the dark stop reading my comment *spoiler*

I think deck combinations of BREAK, EX and GX will rule part of the format when the Sun & Moon set comes out. For example if Solgaleo is indeed a stage 1 you could combine it with Xerneas BREAK, both Pokémon can hit the field turn one with the use of Wally because they're none EX. Sol Burst is an amazing form of energy acceleration which could mean the end of the game if you manage to attach 4 Double Colorless Energy to an Omega Barrier Pokémon. Ofcourse this is all theoretical. The Eeveelutions from Ancient Origins are another aspect that could revolve in more Wally being used.

 

[cardgjammer]

GXes could be an exciting new concept...

...unless the Lulana one is a basic that's weak to dark and resistant to fighting(Ghost psychics)...

^ In which case, it will not only tell players to play Mega Mewtwo-EX AND Lulana-GX in same deck, but it could also make Lulana-GX a "toxic card" that will make psychic decks so strong, that people will beg for TPCi to stop the competitive aspect of the game from being dampened by such a card, and it's more likely that we could see another story that says "_(insert card name here) is being removed from competitive play in all metagames" due to another possible card ban that adds to the currently-slim list of Trump Card and Next Destinies Shiftry(although w/ garbodor back in standard, with a stronger attack than its previous dragons exalted kin's, NXD Shiftry's current ban status is now called into question outside of possible first-turn shenanigans that don't give players a chance to play)...

^ For competition sake, TPCi, please don't make a uber ghost-psychic unless you plan to rotate mega mewtwo-EX out after the season you introduce it, or else one too many GXes will be too strong, especially w/ another season after this current one expected for Mega Mewtwo-EX...

 

[KaijuPokemon]

I personally do not like the new gx cards. I loved the ex cards, and the new gx cards are basically impossible to knock out (Do to their massive hp). I think this was a big step backwards on pokemon tcg's part. If their was some way (and by the way this is a long shot) that gx's and ex's were both in the new sets, than that would be great. Just half of the gx's that were going to be in the set can be ex's, and vise versa. (Sad that this would never happen)

 

[bbninjas]

I personally do not like the new gx cards. I loved the ex cards, and the new gx cards are basically impossible to knock out (Do to their massive hp). I think this was a big step backwards on pokemon tcg's part. If their was some way (and by the way this is a long shot) that gx's and ex's were both in the new sets, than that would be great. Just half of the gx's that were going to be in the set can be ex's, and vise versa. (Sad that this would never happen)

I actually think that's a good thing, to be honest. It stops that 1-hit KO game that has been going on for a while now, where most non-disruption decks are only viable if they can 1-hit KO an EX reliably, allowing for more strategies or playstyles to flourish. ^.^

 

[Asmer]

I feel like this is also an incredibly easy way for them to push multiple Pokemon in to selling points when it comes to a more economical perspective, which is a good thing for both sides. After all, if you've seen for the "Heroes vs Rocket" product they'll be releasing in Japan, there's a Pikachu-GX and a Mimikyu-GX on the front. To me, this screams for parents to buy these kinds of things for their children while also allowing the R&D teams to play around with new ideas (or, in the case of Tapu Lele-GX, combine some ideas). Also, considering the overall shift in both HP of GX Pokemon (and Pokemon overall, I've noticed) and the fact the there is a bigger focus on Stage Pokemon (as a general, but most notably in the GX area), pulling in older Players should be much easier now. After all, I'm sure we all know at least a few people who left during the OHKO format of Battle Compressor who would be willing to come back now.

So, all and all, I like the direction this is going. That said, I am a bit worried that R&D will produce something that will be a bit too over-the-top. That said, we'll have to wait and see.

-Asmer

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I personally do not like the new gx cards. I loved the ex cards, and the new gx cards are basically impossible to knock out (Do to their massive hp). I think this was a big step backwards on pokemon tcg's part. If their was some way (and by the way this is a long shot) that gx's and ex's were both in the new sets, than that would be great. Just half of the gx's that were going to be in the set can be ex's, and vise versa. (Sad that this would never happen)

This prevents the game from being so OHKO heavy and moving big attacks to GX attacks mean you can balance out the other moves that don't KO in a single hit.

 

[Pokedude404]

Quite a few GX cards have been revealed, we now have a good insight of its mechanic. I'm curious how people think of these new cards? How do you compare them to EX Pokémon? Do you like their design for example.

I'm not very fond of them, personally. For a few reasons actually:

HP is getting too d*mn high. regular EX cards already took it to a new level. Then Mega evolutions were introduced into the TCG. It made sense for them to have even more HP. But a 200HP Lycanrock makes no sense. The fact that it gained 140HP form its previous stage makes it even more ridiculous in my opinion.

Their attacks and abilities are bland... I have yet to see an original mechanic on these GX cards. Currently they're all powerful variants of attacks from cards we've seen before.

The GX attack itself also bothers me, it does take skill to use them at the right moment. But a game changing attack only makes a match unpredictable. I already hear players sighing from an unexpected Lunar Fall that takes down one of their benched EX Pokémon with 180HP remaining.

The art on these cards look neat. The 3D models don't look like they were made by amateurs. However I'm not sure if I'll get used to the card layout, like the borders and stuff.

I do hope we get some kind of secret of ultra rare that blows us away!

Omg GX Is sooo annoying I agree they are too high and overpowered. Also they are overused and require no skill and little 8 year olds go out and buy GX Boxes and shred actual experienced player's gameplay to pieces.