The max i've ever played one deck at an event is I played mother gengar 3/6 rounds at a cities. There were only 4 at the event :/.
Originality disappeared?
- Thread starter graberjr
- Start date
Zenith said:
omygod. i literally laughed out loud.
winthreadrighthere
okay seriously people just stop complaining 'cause it isn't going to prove anything. if your in this game for fun and giggles then yayy for you. i don't see why the need for threads like this (honestly i've seen oh like 8 or 9 of these?) all just saying "I'M TIRED OF LOSING TO THE GOOD PLAYERS BECAUSE THEY'RE PLAYING GOOD DECKS AND I WANT THEM TO PLAY DECKS THAT AREN'T GOOD SO I CAN BEAT THEM" because that is pretty much what your saying. and yeah, if your wondering i AM in this game to win it. but i DO play rogue decks 100% of the time. but im not stupid and sacrifice consistency just to be "original". thats just stupid. if you want to play against original decks your probably out of luck unless you go to a really scubby league....
yeah just IMO. im really tired of seeing threads like this :/
haha yeah. i think HoPe has been my most successful rogue deck. i also built unowns last year (3-2 BR). and i played gallade/techs ever since RR came out. before RR i think i played dialga G.. but i played a crazy list with like 2-2 cresselia X and stuff. so yeah, rogues aren't impossible to play, you just have to be good at the game to play them well.
elekid957 said:
isn't that the absolute truth...and by being good at the game...not only do your playing skills have to be up to par, but so do your deckbuilding skills...IMO, the people that complain the most about going against the metagame, originality, and the overuse of cards to the point of avoiding them...often lack, in either one of those areas, or sometimes even both...you either play hard, or stick with unlim like the lil' leagues
So here's something I found from another thread where someone asked for deck help:
"Instead of using those other attackers (seriously, they WILL NOT work) you should focus mainly on what I said. Your list should be something like:
2/2 Lugia Legend
2-2 Delcatty PL
2-2 Claydol
1 Uxie LA
2 Unown G"
And that's all I'm going to say on "originality" (notice the words I put in bold)
"Instead of using those other attackers (seriously, they WILL NOT work) you should focus mainly on what I said. Your list should be something like:
2/2 Lugia Legend
2-2 Delcatty PL
2-2 Claydol
1 Uxie LA
2 Unown G"
And that's all I'm going to say on "originality" (notice the words I put in bold)
PokeDan23 said:
So? do you understand how good claydol, uxie and Unown G is? there's a reason why people use it in alot of decks because it basically allows you to draw more cards each turn/Protect you pokemon from certain special effects or condition and who wouldn't want that? Besides, this thread was originally created to state that facts that "decks" (i.e the main attackers) are all the same and everybody uses it, not the tech cards. Honestly why would put yourself at a disadvantage by not using good tech cards just because everyone uses it. I just don't understand how that kind of logic works.
In order for Lugia Legend to hit for 200 dmg consistantly it requires alot of tech cards (some stage 2 techs and sme stage 1 techs) this would make the deck clunky and inconsistant and no one wants to be hitting 200 dmg every 3 turns because by then Lugia Legend would be KO'd, so what do we do? we add in Claydol GE so that each turn you can refresh your hand, so to speak, a then hopefully draw into the cards you need in order to maintain that high dmg output. Some may chose not to use Claydol but however that doesn't mean they won't find a way to make the deck more consistant and sometimes Claydol is the only way for some decks.
PokeDan23 said:
I'm all for originality, but there is no reason to not run good cards. And plus, Gliscor was completely right in this situation. The deck was a mess.
6-Dimension said:
saying that you're all for originality is fine...however, if your advice doesn't neccessarily constitute originality, how are people supposed to know (not directed at you 6-D)
I'm all for giving good deck advice...but just automatically listing a super popular card because everybody knows it's power and what it does, does seem more of a conformist advice, rather than someone that is just trying to help out someone with a deck idea...there are other cards and other ways to go about strategy...I believe that is what the poster of that quote was trying to point out in terms of originality...instead of just telling the deckbuilder they may want find ways to increase their consistency...which do include, manipulation of the ratios in the deck, finding cards and/or combos that will allow to draw more in a round, and finding cards and/or combos that will allow you to search out what you need...a large number of people giving deck advice are just seemingly looking at lists and just throwing Claydol at the lists (if it isn't already there) and claiming consistency as the reason it should be there...when you can find something else, that might go more with the deck strategy
I understand Claydol is a very good card, however, just because a deck looks like it could use more draw power, and doesn't have a Claydol in the deck...doesn't neccessarily mean that it should have Claydol in the deck...there could easily be other cards a deckbuilder could use, that has more synergy with their deck or deck idea...now in terms of Unown G, there really is no way around that, as it is the only card of it's kind that produces that kind of effect..so naturally, if you're worried about effect, then absolutely yes...you should find a way to put it in your deck
if you're gonna give good advice...make it constructive advice, not just tossing a 2-2 Claydol and 1 Uxie (LA) at anything that doesn't have it just because it is a well used card...that doesn't neccessarily make a deck more consistent...all it really does is make you draw more, which only increases the chance of coming across what you want...which isn't bad at all, but it doesn't guarantee you're going to draw into what you need at that moment...and with today's overall metagame, there's no telling that Claydol will be out long enough for you to get what you need, or that Claydol will even work when you try to use it
qnetykz said:
Just coming back in to say I appreciate this post.
lol I've just been watching how the thread unfolds. I'm enjoying the discussions I see take place. Trying not to actually put my say into the discussion anymore cause I know I'll end up going off-tangent and just spouting things for the sake of being angry.
I don't get why people think that putting Claydol and Uxie in a deck makes it unorigional.
This is a strategy game. Metagames create strategy in the form of techs and counters, then countering those counters. If there are cards that are better than most of the cards, people are going to play those. It's cool if you want to play a fun deck that's not going to win but the people who want to win don't play the fun decks. Rogues are different than fun decks before anyone gets on me for that. Wormodam is an example of a fun deck. HoPe is an example of a rogue.
qnetykz said:
Because deckbuilding advice isn't supposed to be original. It's supposed to make the deck not suck. Adding in a 2-2 Claydol will make a deck not suck. Claydol is a super popular card, this is true. But it's popular for a reason, that reason being that he is probably the most important card in the format. Of course people will use him - he fits perfectly into almost every deck, and works spectacularly in almost every deck.
I can try giving original advice, too. I can tell someone to use Porygon2 GE as a draw engine. It would be original, sure, but it would also be terrible advice since he sucks in comparison to Claydol because you'd need to run like 25-30 Supporters for him to be useful. But hey, it's original!
There is no card that has more synergy with more decks than Claydol. It's like butter. He's used in every deck ever because he's essential in every deck ever.
Sorry for the long winded post, but it's annoying to see people hurt their decks for the sake of originality.
Gah, where's the sage when I need it...
graberjr said:
Actually, it does. Nothing sucks more than running out of Supporters and having to rely on your turn-opening draw to survive. Claydol provides huge draw power in the form of constant hand refreshment for the paltry price of 4 cards in your deck and one spot on your bench. It's a huge gain for a very minor cost, something that boosts the effectiveness of almost any deck.
You could make a case for donk decks that have no need for Claydol, in which case, sure, they don't need it. And you could argue for Uxie Lv. X, sure - that's personal preference. But come on.
KK. /failthread
What I'm seeing is you're complaining you can't win a childrens card game to a bunch of people you've propably never met over the Internet? That IS sad.
You're reasoning for hating the meta is off. At league, where it DOESN'T count, go ahead and play your "Rogue" Decks. It takes a lot of skill to play a metagame deck right. Ever noticed how the good players generally win PreReleases? Steven from Washington invented Uxie Blitz. I suggest you try Shuppet Donk. It's SOO Fun. It also beats 80% of the metagame 80% of the time.
What I'm seeing is you're complaining you can't win a childrens card game to a bunch of people you've propably never met over the Internet? That IS sad.
You're reasoning for hating the meta is off. At league, where it DOESN'T count, go ahead and play your "Rogue" Decks. It takes a lot of skill to play a metagame deck right. Ever noticed how the good players generally win PreReleases? Steven from Washington invented Uxie Blitz. I suggest you try Shuppet Donk. It's SOO Fun. It also beats 80% of the metagame 80% of the time.
airconditioning said:
so you mean to tell me, if you have a deck that tends to keep decently sized hands without Claydol...say 6 or more cards...that throwing in Claydol will help the deck???
wrong...because if you have a Claydol out there, then all your gonna do is just refresh maybe one or two cards on average
you obviously are misled on what synergy is...making you draw a bunch doesn't fix your problem, it can help...but as I said before, just because you draw more cards, doesn't neccessarily mean that you will draw into what you need...and...with today's metagame, there is no guarantee Claydol will remain in play long enough to get you what you need...so no, Claydol is not like butter...it's more like Salt, sure sometimes it can help a dish taste better, but there are plenty dishes that don't need it...
case in point, there is a certain kid that's going from Seniors to Masters that has already posted on this thread and has since silenced himself...he recently became a fan of Claydol...he even tossed in a 3-3 line into his current favorite deck a Torterrable deck, thinking it will help him with it...while it does help him draw a bit more in a completely pokemon overcrowded deck, it doesn't really help him win...as there are plenty of times where he finds himself, either unable to use Claydol when he wants to, or finds his Claydol gotten rid of before he is able to use to any effectiveness...just dropping the Claydol line down to a 2-2 line, still won't help him with the problems the deck has...so, adding a 2-2 Claydol line didn't help make this deck not suck...so your theory has been disproven
now the thing that may help his deck, is to cut some of his lines, and limit others to less than what is in there, but that does go to show, that just because you put Claydol in a deck, that doesn't make it gold...and there are tons of other decks just like that...just like there are tons of decks that don't need Claydol, and wouldn't neccessarily be any better with Claydol...some may find themselves becoming worse by trying to put Claydol in a deck
you make it seem as though you're guaranteed to have Claydol immediately after you're opening draw...and you're right, it doesn't take much to put Claydol in a deck...but have you ever thought about what you're gonna do to keep you protected...or do you just happen to play in an ideal metagame, where none of your opponents go after your setup cards to disrupt your setup?
there are plenty of decks that don't need Claydol (outside of donk decks), and some decks that will be worse with trying to fit Claydol in them...that's simple to see, and with that, good players trying to keep you from using them by making sure it doesn't stay in play long enough to be used to any effectiveness...it does happen, alot, you don't have decks like Legos, BlazeRay, InfLux, LadyGaga, Dialga/Garchomp, and Gengar(SF) varients just because they want to snipe away other benched pokemon that don't help you draw and setup...in Flytrap, what is often a target for Restructure?
I mean, don't get me wrong, I use Claydol just like the next person...but I use it in decks that would warrant me and allow me to be able to use Claydol to great effect...decks that have other useful powers to be able to bait out power sprays, decks that can keep Claydol protected because they are already keeping the bench protected, etc......I don't just throw Claydol in a deck because I need draw power, there are other alternatives, that could easily be a better choice, given what kind of deck it is, and what the purpose of the deck is...there are plenty decks out there with Claydol that do suck, and there are plenty decks out there with Claydol that don't suck...just like, there are decks without Claydol that suck, and there are decks without Claydol that don't suck