PokéBeach Official TCG Tier List

What Tier do you guys think CMT Should be?

  • Tier 1

    Votes: 10 34.5%

  • Tier 1.5

    Votes: 19 65.5%
  • Total voters
    29
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RE: PokeBeach Official Tier List

Celebi23 said:
I'd say it's more like

Tier 1:
ZekEel
Darkrai

Tier 1.5:
CTM
Mono Fighting

Tier 2:
Klinklang
Empoleon
Vileplume variants (not just Accelgor)
Quad Entei
all the other stuff you said I guess

I think that there's no dispute that Darkrai is the card that's defining the format right now. It's fast, consistent, has a great ability, great attack, can deny KOs, has synergy with quite a few cards, and can take multiple prizes in the same turn, even against non-EX cards. ZekEel stands up to all of that very well thanks to Terrakion, and has a pretty favorable matchup there. However, it's a cut below Darkrai when playing the other decks in the format simply because it's one of the slowest decks nowadays.

Mono Fighting is the lame meta-counter deck with good enough matchups to keep it winning but really isn't that amazing when it comes down to it. CTM is a very good deck, but it just falls into the shadow of Darkrai and Eelektrik when you look at what it takes in this format to be successful. It's too vulnerable to N, doesn't offer very consistent energy acceleration, can't use Smeargle very effectively thanks to Celebi, struggles to consistently set up Retaliates, almost all of its main attackers have nasty weaknesses, it lacks late-game power, and just doesn't have the stellar matchups that Darkrai and Eelektrik have. Every matchup with CTM is about 50-50, so every matchup you play is going to be a struggle. However, all four of these decks are still the best available. There's just a clear division between the top two and the bottom two.

All of the Stage 2 decks and other random decks (mostly Quads) simply aren't as effective as the "Big 4" decks at trying to do what they do, but at the same time are able to bring enough unique benefits to the table to be playable. Whether it's draw, board control, disruption, or some combination of these things, they have some unique niches for lack of a better word. When it comes down to it, though, they lack the speed, consistency, and/or matchups that keep the big four decks on top. Darkrai and CTM are very good at exploiting early-game weakness, while Eelektrik is very good at exploiting late-game inconsistency and Stage 2 decks tend to have both of those things. And the Quad decks have too one-dimensional of a strategy to be popular or great plays.

The nice thing about this format, though, is that there are quite a few decks with the potential to be Tier 2 and playable, even outside of the ones already listed. Magnezone, Lugia Legend, Typhlosion, Emboar, various Plume variants, etc. are all decent. I think the real debate in this thread is going to be about which decks to include in Tier 2 and which to leave out of it, not which decks should be in Tier 1 and 1.5.


So, thoughts, on reorganizing it to be like what I put?
Click to expand...

That sounds right to me.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

On the portal thread, I had a list the included a lot more decks than this.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

iisnumber12 said:
On the portal thread, I had a list the included a lot more decks than this.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter how many decks you put on. 3/4 of the decks you put are played by like 5 people. There isn't any point of having a deck that isn't widely played on a tier list, no matter how good it is.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Yeah it kind of is...

This is for newer player who are going to use stuff other than the 10 most popular.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Then that should be possible decks for the current format or something like that, not a tier list.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

You should have run this by Celebi before posting it.
 
RE: PokeBeach Official Tier List

Celebi23 said:
I'd say it's more like

Tier 1:
ZekEel
Darkrai

Tier 1.5:
CTM
Mono Fighting

Tier 2:
Klinklang
Empoleon
Vileplume variants (not just Accelgor)
Quad Entei
all the other stuff you said I guess

I think that there's no dispute that Darkrai is the card that's defining the format right now. It's fast, consistent, has a great ability, great attack, can deny KOs, has synergy with quite a few cards, and can take multiple prizes in the same turn, even against non-EX cards. ZekEel stands up to all of that very well thanks to Terrakion, and has a pretty favorable matchup there. However, it's a cut below Darkrai when playing the other decks in the format simply because it's one of the slowest decks nowadays.

Mono Fighting is the lame meta-counter deck with good enough matchups to keep it winning but really isn't that amazing when it comes down to it. CTM is a very good deck, but it just falls into the shadow of Darkrai and Eelektrik when you look at what it takes in this format to be successful. It's too vulnerable to N, doesn't offer very consistent energy acceleration, can't use Smeargle very effectively thanks to Celebi, struggles to consistently set up Retaliates, almost all of its main attackers have nasty weaknesses, it lacks late-game power, and just doesn't have the stellar matchups that Darkrai and Eelektrik have. Every matchup with CTM is about 50-50, so every matchup you play is going to be a struggle. However, all four of these decks are still the best available. There's just a clear division between the top two and the bottom two.

All of the Stage 2 decks and other random decks (mostly Quads) simply aren't as effective as the "Big 4" decks at trying to do what they do, but at the same time are able to bring enough unique benefits to the table to be playable. Whether it's draw, board control, disruption, or some combination of these things, they have some unique niches for lack of a better word. When it comes down to it, though, they lack the speed, consistency, and/or matchups that keep the big four decks on top. Darkrai and CTM are very good at exploiting early-game weakness, while Eelektrik is very good at exploiting late-game inconsistency and Stage 2 decks tend to have both of those things. And the Quad decks have too one-dimensional of a strategy to be popular or great plays.

The nice thing about this format, though, is that there are quite a few decks with the potential to be Tier 2 and playable, even outside of the ones already listed. Magnezone, Lugia Legend, Typhlosion, Emboar, various Plume variants, etc. are all decent. I think the real debate in this thread is going to be about which decks to include in Tier 2 and which to leave out of it, not which decks should be in Tier 1 and 1.5.


So, thoughts, on reorganizing it to be like what I put?
Click to expand...

In my earlier post, you pretty much agreed/put the same decks in the same tiers that I did. MTC does belong in tier 1.5 because it just isn't as great as Zekeels or Darkrai, but is still a great deck. Everything else is either worse than/not as good as MTC, which should belong lower. Vileplume is just slow/inconsistent but usually locks very well for most of the game, Empoleon does the 120 damage that can't OHKO 130 hps, plus its weakness is.....bad, but has a great ability, KlingKlang completely dies to Hammers but once set up can run through if their attackers isn't OHKOed, and Entei can't always get everything it needs, but Entei is very good and annoying once set up.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

I'm starting to really agree with [smod]Celebi23[/smod]'s Tier list. Also, I'm starting to notice that MTC really isn't Tier 1 anymore. It loses really badly to Hammertime.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

"MTC" may be a more technically accurate description (putting the Mewtwo EX first), but as an acronym, it is far more famously known as "CMT." To avoid confusion, I'd recommend you just do that (although it's much ado about nothing to begin with, haha).
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

This is how I would do it:

Tier1:

Zekeels
Darkrai varients
CMT

Tier1.5:

Empoleon varients
Klinklang EXs
Terrakion varients

Tier2:

Durant
Vileplume/Mew
Mono Entei


Zekeels and Darkrai are the best decks a bit over CMT. Terrakion and Empoleon are excellent decks and Klinklang is doing great. Entei is great. Durant and Mew/Vileplume went down.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Due to the constant argue of people between CMT's Tier, I made a poll about it. After 20 votes (or after one option gets more than 10 votes), the poll will close.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Celebi can't run with Eelektrik or Darkrai, so it's still Tier 1.5 even if people end up voting it into Tier 1. It's no faster than Darkrai is (but gets worse attackers than Darkrai) and it's just a worse overall deck than Eelektrik is. And this is coming from a die-hard CTM fan.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Celebi23 said:
Celebi can't run with Eelektrik or Darkrai, so it's still Tier 1.5 even if people end up voting it into Tier 1. It's no faster than Darkrai is (but gets worse attackers than Darkrai) and it's just a worse overall deck than Eelektrik is. And this is coming from a die-hard CTM fan.
Click to expand...

Are you seriously saying it's easier to get a T1 Darkrai than T1 Tornadus EX? Celebi gets more T1's than Darkrai, although I will agree that it's attackers are weaker than Darkrai.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

It's slightly easier to get a T1 Tornadus-EX, but dropping Tornadus-EX is basically the equivalent of scooping to ZekEels; one of the biggest decks right now. And you're sacrificing power every turn except the first 1-2 just to get an average attack off in those one or two turns. Speed only gets you so far.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Celebi23 said:
It's slightly easier to get a T1 Tornadus-EX, but dropping Tornadus-EX is basically the equivalent of scooping to ZekEels; one of the biggest decks right now. And you're sacrificing power every turn except the first 1-2 just to get an average attack off in those one or two turns. Speed only gets you so far.
Click to expand...

I agree that it's comparatively weak deck if it doesn't get the T1 attack, but it capatalizes so well off of getting a T1, since after that all you have to do in order to win the prize race is to not miss an attack.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

Not really. The only attackers you have capable of OHKOing the average card are EXs. And those EXs are all OHKO'd by either Terrakion, Zekrom, or Mewtwo-EX. Unless you plan to play the entire game with Tornadus, you're dealing with some pretty bad exchange rates. Plus getting N'd to 1-2 cards isn't helpful in not missing an attack.

Plus what if you don't get the T1 attack? You probably lose. Nobody at Nationals will get the T1 attack every time.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

You use your EX's to 2HKO their's and either Tornadus, Terrakion or the appropriate EX to 2HKO their non-EX's. N does hurt it, though. I do agree that it's pretty weak without the T1, making it slightly worse than ZekEels and Darkrai.
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

I think the tier list looks pretty good right now.... The only thing I'd like to see is Mew/Accelgor get a spot among these guys the deck has proven to me (and others) to work okay and it id well in several BR's (definitely not tier 1 material, but tier 2 is probably good)

also most of your deckslists aren't very good, you could take decks off the forums and give credit to the person who posted the original list. Or you could get some decks from the metagame deck center.

That's just what I think though... :p
 
RE: PokéBeach Official Tier List

The Pikachu Mafia said:
give credit to the person who posted the original list
Click to expand...

Um...I typed these lists in less than 5 minutes a piece, and the rest were ones that [member]alexmf2[/member] gave to this list.

EDIT: CMT is here to be Tier 1.5
 
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