Strategy PokeBeach's Official Sixth Generation Ban List (OU)

Rip smashpass

I agree with prof palutena. Seems like a very unnecessary nerf to an already complicated ban. Was there a specific strategy or Pokemon that pushed this over the top?
 
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One Approved said:
Rip smashpass

I agree with prof palutena. Seems like a very unnecessary nerf to an already complicated ban. Was there a specific strategy or Pokemon that pushed this over the top?
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From what I've read, it's really Smeargle (Geomancy and pretty much any moves that boost attack + speed) and Scolipede who are pushing it over the limit. Stuff like BP Celebi are perfectly fine, but you run into problems when you put it in the hands of things that can effortlessly pass speed and attack boosts to a good sweeper.
 
Smeargle, however, is extremely weak otherwise, and while it can use Spore it's prone to being Taunted and relies too much on the opponent not waking up while it's boosting. Scolipede is the strongest BP user probably, but I'm not sure if just one mon can justify the complication of the ban update.
 
This is a stupid move, your just encouraging using Speed Boost users, and this is the most unnecessary complex ban ever. I for one feel as if the quality of battling has gone down if we really need to make a ban where you can have any boost you want, just as long as it doesn't have speed boost. Even though this ban doesn't affect me in the slightest (because my team just BP's SDs and I already have a reciever with Rock Polish), do you really need to dumb down an already nerfed play style? My own BP team has ways of dealing with other BP teams, you just can't be a bad player and let them set up and sweep. This is like banning Serperior because it can set up a sweep in three turns. Is that good? Yes, is the pokemon overwhelming? No, because even at +6 it still runs into trouble with certain pokemon.
 
Chaos Jackal said:
Smeargle, however, is extremely weak otherwise, and while it can use Spore it's prone to being Taunted and relies too much on the opponent not waking up while it's boosting. Scolipede is the strongest BP user probably, but I'm not sure if just one mon can justify the complication of the ban update.
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There is also Gorebyss which is mentioned there and I had seen it quite a lot before this ban. Although I never had any major issues with this strategy.
 
The reason BP was put under restriction in the first place was due to a very specific team combo that was replicated by a big part of the playerbase and ran rampant through low and high ELO alike. It wasn't just strong and nearly impossible to stop when played correctly, it was also everywhere, thus severely limiting teambuilding. But I'd argue that a single Baton Pass user isn't so terrifying as to warranty a further nerf.
 
Prior to the first Baton Pass nerf, it was Scolipede + Smeargle + Espeon + other Baton Passers. The objective is to stack as many boosts on Espeon as you can and sweep.

The latest rendition before the ban involved using Prankster Tailwind to simulate a Speed pass, then usually a Quiver Dance Smeargle pass to Espeon for a sweep.
 
One thing I was just thinking about with this new Baton Pass clause is Blaziken. I think it's worth discussing.

With the new changes in Baton Pass, Blaziken can't Baton Pass Swords Dance boosts. It still hits really hard with Swords Dance and it's tough to revenge kill, but it's lost a lot of utility value with the new Pass clause. The utility value is what ended up pushing it over the edge in BW and in ORAS. We've already seen something similar where Combusken came back to NU after the new Baton Pass rules because it didn't have the utility value.

Blaziken still hits really hard (though I don't think Mega Blaziken would be used much due to regular Blaziken hitting harder). It gained three solid checks and counters in ORAS: Mega Altaria, Mega Latias and Mega Slowbro. The rise of Bulky Garchomp also makes Blaziken's life harder due to the consistent recoil damage from Flare Blitz, Rocky Helmet and Rough Skin. Old XY checks like Talonflame, Azumarill and Gyarados still exist too.

The one thing I'm worried about is the possibility of Speed Boost passes without Swords Dance. Passing to something like Manaphy or Mega Metagross would be disastrous.
 
I dare say it's not. Utility via BP was one of the reasons it was banned before, yes. However, it's still ridiculously powerful for the OU environment. Access to SD and BP with such great coverage and raw strength is too much on its own. Blaziken isn't anything like Scolipede. It's actually more than viable in Ubers, and not cos of a niche, but as an all-around strong sweeper. I still consider it way too powerful for use in the OU environment.
 
Wow, Venomoth just lost all viability. It really just seems like a random nerf, if anything. As if the Baton Pass clause wasn't already confusing enough...
 
The new Baton Clause is ridiculous in my opinion. It was enough to limit Baton Passing stat changes to just one Pokémon, but banning the combo of Baton Passing Speed and Quiver Dance/Swords Dance/etc. is just going too far.
 
One thing I'd like to see banned soon is Hoopa-Unbound. Hoopa-Unbound is one of two Pokemon that have 680 BST or higher that isn't banned to Ubers. Its offensive stats are off the chart with 160 Atk and 170 SAtk. It also has a large array of moves to take advantage of those offensive stats. Not many Pokemon would enjoy switching into one of its attacks.

80 Speed is slower than average, but 130 Special Defense means it is taking special attacks quite well. You can really only check Hoopa, you can't counter it by definition. With it having both physical and special moves, you won't know what kind of set you are facing or even a mixed set. The only good way to get rid of it is by revenge KO or having a Pokemon that is faster and knows a physical move.
 
Many people say Hoopa should be banned since it 2HKO the entire metagame similar to Mega Lucario. I used to agree but now after using it several times I am not so sure it should be banned or be compared to other powerful Pokemon. While it's true that its offensive powers are overwhelming, the lack of speed along with low physical defense, creates many opportunities for the opponent to deal with Hoopa without the need of Revenge Killer or Priority user. Jirachi, for instance is not that fast and not that powerful compared to others and yet one U-Turn OHKO Hoopa-U.
If it was just lack of physical defense or only low speed, I think Hoopa-U would have been banned by now. Since these 2 factors exist, Hoopa-U would probably never get the hammer unless something would change this offensive physical metagame.
 
My point is if you don't have a Pokemon that can defeat Hoopa out when it comes out, it becomes a question of "Which Pokemon can I afford to lose to get in a better position?". Life Orb variants do an incredible amount of damage. To give an idea of just how much power it has, Adamant Life Orb Ice Punch actually OHKOs 4HP Multiscale Deragonite 25% of the time keeping in mind this isn't even a STAB move. I don't feel it is healthy for the metagame in that regard. If a Pokemon is boosted, I could justify a switch causing you to lose this kind of HP, but not when its unboosted.
 
I'm going to back @King Arceus up on this one. Hoopa-U strikes many similarities with Mega Mawile, especially in the power vs. speed department. Both of them had hilariously high attack power, with a weaker defense [though flipped between the two, Mega Mawile struggled with special attacks and Hoopa can't take physical attacks very well] and are quite slow. Though, if you take the hit [or, in Mega Mawile's case, use Sucker Punch on an attack] you're almost garunteed to knock something out. Hoopa-U takes it a step further by having amazing coverage and very powerful special attack, as well as the ability to hold an item other than its megastone. Well Mega Mawile relied on it's insane attack stat with Huge Power to shred anything, Hoopa can just hit you for weakness, and has a STAB move that goes through protect, meaning nothing is safe.
 
Sorry for the double post, but I've heard during my time in the RU room that Smogon has been planning to separate the megas from the non-megas, tier-wise, based on usage sometime in november.

What's interesting about this is that Mega Alakazam is only OU when combined with Regular Alakazam. Same story with Garchomp and Lati@s. Does this mean that we could be seeing megas in a lower tier than their non-mega counterparts? If so, how would this work?
 
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