Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik

Blah said:
Don't trust PTCGO - the decls played on there are often not played in tournaments (ex. Gothitelle is terrible).

Rayeels is one of those decks that just never dies no matter what comes its way. I do think it takes a hit because of the ridiculous early game pressure that Plasma can put on, but it's not completely dead. You can replace Emolga with Shaymin BC if you feel the need to have a starter (Shaymin is better anyway because of the 1 retreat), and once Rayeels sets up, it can run through decks just like it always has. Is the deck still viable? Yes. Is it good or worth playing at tournaments? It remains to be seen.
Click to expand...

What about Landorus EX? I see in over 50% of the decks I played against and when they run Big Basics, all the catchers and lasers just destroys whatever I try to setup while they keep piling up energies on Landorus until it can finally kill off my Rayquaza in one shot.
 
Re: RE: Rayquaza EX / Eelektrik

Shaxe said:
What about Landorus EX? I see in over 50% of the decks I played against and when they run Big Basics, all the catchers and lasers just destroys whatever I try to setup while they keep piling up energies on Landorus until it can finally kill off my Rayquaza in one shot.
Click to expand...

well that already became an issue during the BLW-BCR format but that didnt really kill of the RayEel decks. I believe that its just a matter of setting up first

Sent from my GT-S5360 using Tapatalk 2
 
The donking % will probably be the same as BLW-BCR since most people who play lando ex will most likely shift to plasma basics. And yes its a matter of setting up and increasing the chance of starting 2 pokemon at turn 1. Eels will still be competitive in BW-PLF.
 
I've been playing RayEels for a long while, and noticed that NOBODY in my area was running Team Plasma Klinklang/Cobalion EX at States, most of my matchups were Blastoise/Keldeo (one which ran Mewtwo EX the other Black Kyurem EX), 1 Mirror with RayEels which had a much faster setup than mine with Energy Switch and Emolga, and Lugia EX in Plasma Box which beats RayEels the majority of the time If it doesn't tech in regular Zekrom over V-Create Victini.
 
Card Slinger J said:
I've been playing RayEels for a long while, and noticed that NOBODY in my area was running Team Plasma Klinklang/Cobalion EX at States, most of my matchups were Blastoise/Keldeo (one which ran Mewtwo EX the other Black Kyurem EX), 1 Mirror with RayEels which had a much faster setup than mine with Energy Switch and Emolga, and Lugia EX in Plasma Box which beats RayEels the majority of the time If it doesn't tech in regular Zekrom over V-Create Victini.
Click to expand...
I personally prefer Raikou EX over BW Zekrom because it provides the option of sniping bench and you simply can't underestimate the effectiveness of doing so especially in a mirror match. In addition, Volt Bolt discarding helps powering Dynamotor while also avoids putting you in a bad position against Mewtwo EX and Deoxys EX. Bolt Strike's recoil damage and the card's low HP also makes it such a vulnerable target and loses its effectiveness against Plasmaklang decks, which is gaining popularity with the introduction of Plasmabox decks. It also does the same job of killing Tornadus EX when Aspertia isn't in play.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Rayeels kept making good cuts, even after all this. This deck is like that annoying ex-girlfriend that keeps calling, it never goes away
 
Agreed. If I remember correctly, RayEeels decks made the top cut at the fall Regionals (*), T8 at the 3 State tournaments (*), and top cut at the spring Regionals (*).

Although this deck will have still have a difficult time setting up against the new Plasma Freeze decks, I believe they will still be competitve since Ray EX can still 1HKO any Poke in the game. So, with the Eels line still the "Achilles' heel" of the deck, do you expect more players to shift away from RayEels to RayBoar?


* = that I attended/played in
 
What exactly is making the Eels variant worse or the Boar one better? Frozen City severely hurts Boar and I can't see anything else hurting Eels more than Boar.
 
RayBoar is 100% outclassed by Blastoise except for the Klinklang matchup, which is not enough to make or break a deck decision. Blastoise has better attackers, easier ways to retreat, and for the same amount of energy discard from Rayquaza, it does 200 damage with a 180 HP EX over 180 damage with a 170 HP EX. To make matters worse, Tepig is weak to Kyurem and doesn't have Shell shield, meaning Kyurem can burn through Tepig's just as easily as Landorus could burn through Tynamos. I literally cannot think of any reason to play RayBoar over Blastoise, except for the Klinklang matchup but again, that's not enough to make it worth using.

Eels will still be the better variant because despite having a more difficult set up, it has the most efficient flow of energy out of any deck in the current format. I think Rayeels takes a severe hit from Plasma due to it being able to keep up with KO's and murder tons of Tynamos early, but it most certainly won't be outclassed by Rayboar.
 
^ This, this, this, this, this, this.

The choice of Ray/Eels over Black/Stoise (spread that name around. I like it) comes down to which energy accelerator you like better. Blastoise doesn't fall apart as easily, but it becomes much tougher to set up after a few turns, while it's harder to stop Eels from completely setting up, with Emolga, 2 Super Rod, and plenty of other factors.
 
Dark Void said:
What exactly is making the Eels variant worse or the Boar one better?
Click to expand...
To name a few: Tepigs have more HP than Tynamos; you only need 1 Emboar (Internal Fandango) in play to drop multiple R energy; and Emboar itself makes the deck an autowin, IMHO, against Klingklang decks.

Dark Void said:
Frozen City severely hurts Boar and I can't see anything else hurting Eels more than Boar.
Click to expand...
Frozen City is just a Stadium that can be easily replaced by another Stadium. Secondly, in 1 respect, Frozen City can actually be a benefit: placed the energy and damage counter onto a Reshiram that can then Outrage for extra damage.

Blah said:
RayBoar is 100% outclassed by Blastoise...
Click to expand...
As an alternative to the Eels engine of RayEels, it was only suggested that one might want to consider utilizing the "Boar" engine vs. the Eels, not consider different deck alternatives.
 
TuxedoBlack said:
Dark Void said:
What exactly is making the Eels variant worse or the Boar one better?
Click to expand...
To name a few: Tepigs have more HP than Tynamos; you only need 1 Emboar (Internal Fandango) in play to drop multiple R energy; and Emboar itself makes the deck an autowin, IMHO, against Klingklang decks.
These factors were already the case before the newest set. What I meant was why would Rayboar be better now than it was previously, or why would Rayeels be worse now than it was previously. Also, I hardly see how Emboar autowins against Klinklang. Its a stage 2 that requires 4 energy to OHKO Klinklang but doesn't even OHKO Cobalion EX. All its previous forms are OHKO'd by Coba and it is 2HKOed. Maybe it helps but I really doubt it makes it an autowin.

Dark Void said:
Frozen City severely hurts Boar and I can't see anything else hurting Eels more than Boar.
Click to expand...
Frozen City is just a Stadium that can be easily replaced by another Stadium. Secondly, in 1 respect, Frozen City can actually be a benefit: placed the energy and damage counter onto a Reshiram that can then Outrage for extra damage.
There aren't many situations in which that is actually beneficial, but you missed the point above. I see new cards that hurt Rayboar, and I don't see new cards that help it or hurt Rayeels. Also, Kyurem decks will probably hurt Rayboar a lot since they can OHKO Emboar as easily as an Eel and they have a good matchup vs Klinklang, causing Klinklang to be less played.

Blah said:
RayBoar is 100% outclassed by Blastoise...
Click to expand...
As an alternative to the Eels engine of RayEels, it was only suggested that one might want to consider utilizing the "Boar" engine vs. the Eels, not consider different deck alternatives.
If Rayboar has some advantages and some disadvantages compared to Rayeels but only disadvantages compared to Blastoise, then there is no reason to use Rayboar and so Rayeels will be the only Ray variant with a niche in the metagame.
Click to expand...
 
Dark Void said:
TuxedoBlack said:
To name a few: Tepigs have more HP than Tynamos; you only need 1 Emboar (Internal Fandango) in play to drop multiple R energy; and Emboar itself makes the deck an autowin, IMHO, against Klingklang decks.
These factors were already the case before the newest set. What I meant was why would Rayboar be better now than it was previously, or why would Rayeels be worse now than it was previously. Also, I hardly see how Emboar autowins against Klinklang. Its a stage 2 that requires 4 energy to OHKO Klinklang but doesn't even OHKO Cobalion EX. All its previous forms are OHKO'd by Coba and it is 2HKOed. Maybe it helps but I really doubt it makes it an autowin.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Now, there are more 1-2 energy attackers than and now there is Float Stone that helps get the Boar out of the active position easier.

Emboar has MUCH faster energy attachment acceleration than KK and can essentially itself + a HtL 1HKO any KK deck Poké. Or a Reshiram could do the 1HKO honors.

Dark Void said:
TuxedoBlack said:
Frozen City is just a Stadium that can be easily replaced by another Stadium. Secondly, in 1 respect, Frozen City can actually be a benefit: placed the energy and damage counter onto a Reshiram that can then Outrage for extra damage.
There aren't many situations in which that is actually beneficial, but you missed the point above. I see new cards that hurt Rayboar, and I don't see new cards that help it or hurt Rayeels. Also, Kyurem decks will probably hurt Rayboar a lot since they can OHKO Emboar as easily as an Eel and they have a good matchup vs Klinklang, causing Klinklang to be less played.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
A sniping PF Kyurem definitely would terrorize benched Tynamos, as well as Tepigs. Secondly, PF Kyurems need at least 2 energy attachments (WWC energy requirement) before it could KO an Emboar. One would see this coming and plan accordingly (such as KO the Kyurem).

The big difference between the Boar vs. Eelektrik engines is that 1 Emboar can essentially drop lots of R energy whereas Eelektriks can only attach 1 L per Eel. This is a huge difference, IMHO.

Dark Void said:
TuxedoBlack said:
As an alternative to the Eels engine of RayEels, it was only suggested that one might want to consider utilizing the "Boar" engine vs. the Eels, not consider different deck alternatives.
If Rayboar has some advantages and some disadvantages compared to Rayeels but only disadvantages compared to Blastoise, then there is no reason to use Rayboar and so Rayeels will be the only Ray variant with a niche in the metagame.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
RayBoar vs. Blastoise... that's another discussion for a different thread, My comments were focused on this thread only.
 
You're right that it's a separate discussion, but the conversation about Rayeels vs. RayBoar is a useless one when RayBoar won't get played ever due to Blastoise. Whether Rayeels will remain being played (which is what we're discussing) is not a function of how good Emboar is because at the moment you decide to play Emboar over Rayeels, you're better off just abandoning Rayquaza altogether.

Anyway, I did some testing with this and I think Rayeels really takes a major hit with the new set. Plasma can easily OHKO Rayquazas, not to mention it can eat Tynamos early game. Darkrai, which wasn't that great of a matchup in the first place, can now take advantage of your large bench and OHKO a Rayquaza for two energy. The only deck you still have a good matchup against now is Blastoise, which even then becomes more difficult because they have a much more efficient form of energy recovery now.
 
Blah said:
...but the conversation about Rayeels vs. RayBoar is a useless one when RayBoar won't get played ever due to Blastoise.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Blah said:
...at the moment you decide to play Emboar over Rayeels, you're better off just abandoning Rayquaza altogether.
Click to expand...
I also disagree.

Please back up arguements with reasoning in the future - Blah
My disagreement with Blah's comments stem from the facts that if a player DOES choose to play Raquaza, Emboar should be given careful consideration vs. Eelektrik. The Emboar line, IMHO, has advantages (some noted above) vs. its L counterpart. I am not contesting that there are now perhaps better decks to play than RayEels, but I was focusing my comments to the thread's topic.

Interesting to know that moderators can actually change one's post...
 
TuxedoBlack said:
Blah said:
...but the conversation about Rayeels vs. RayBoar is a useless one when RayBoar won't get played ever due to Blastoise.
Click to expand...
I disagree.

Blah said:
...at the moment you decide to play Emboar over Rayeels, you're better off just abandoning Rayquaza altogether.
Click to expand...
I also disagree.

Please back up arguements with reasoning in the future - Blah
Click to expand...
I saw in your previous posts that you recommend playing rayboar with HTL and float stone, do you have a deck list that is 60 cards exactly (and relatively consistent) that includes at least two HTL and float stone? IMO, if a card isn't worth at least two, it's the 61st card in your deck. Generally anyway. I'm really not seeing dropping 8 cards (eels line) and adding 3-1-3 or 3-0-3 emboar line, 3 rare candies, 2 HTL and 2 Float stone. Keeping skyarrow is very important due to stadium wars (and deck function), so probably should leave that one in there.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top