XY Revised Type Chart

[J.D.]

Grass has too many weaknesses. I like grass types a lot, and I tire of having to retreat them any single time I'm facing a pokemon that is either flying/fire/bug/poison/ice, has moves of those types or is resistant to grass.
I'd say that the flying advantage and resistance should go, and bug should have only resistance, not advantage. Poison, fire and ice make perfect sense as strong against grass, while the reason for flying (wind during storms rips trees) is pretty extreme and shaky (applying that reasoning, almost every type is strong against almost every type). and we are forgetting that, as much as bugs take advantage of grass, they also need it to live, so they are at more equal footing, really, rather than one having dominance.

Why do I agree with everything he's saying?

But seriously, the grass type overall is severely underwhelming and I hope that if there is in fact a type chart change, that it is geared towards fixing the unbalanced issues faced by the poor grass type.

I must say I don't agree with everything he's saying... but that said, I do agree Grass could use a boost.

Personally, I think Grass should resist Fairy-types, or even be immune to it. Fairies are often depicted as creatures that help nature, and as such a Fairy hurting a plant seems a bit illogical.

 

[Turtwig]

But you see, tauros is an exception, and you can't base entire type resistances off a few special exceptions. On the other hand, you have bugs where every single one of them utilizes grass to its advantage/eats it. That's why bugs are strong against grass.

As for flying, I was simply throwing out ideas they might have used. I agree that flying should hit grass for neutral damage.

Tauros was just a mere example off the top of my head.

Okay so I had just made a reply to this and accidentally deleted it. Basically, the gist of it was that grass as a type experiences many challenges. It is heavily resisted and easily targeted, and in-game there are many different bug-type obstacles, which include Virdian Forest, Bugsy of Johto, Petalburg Woods, Elite Four Aaron of Sinnoh, Burgh of Unova, and a possible (can't remember if confirmed) Kalos bug-type gym leader. In the actual game itself, the bug type is overwhelming for grass starters early on (or, in Sinnoh's case, an E4 member) and I kind of wish that was the type to go. However, I'm sure the flying type makes much more sense.

 

[Ohman177]

But you see, tauros is an exception, and you can't base entire type resistances off a few special exceptions. On the other hand, you have bugs where every single one of them utilizes grass to its advantage/eats it. That's why bugs are strong against grass.

As for flying, I was simply throwing out ideas they might have used. I agree that flying should hit grass for neutral damage.

Tauros was just a mere example off the top of my head.

Okay so I had just made a reply to this and accidentally deleted it. Basically, the gist of it was that grass as a type experiences many challenges. It is heavily resisted and easily targeted, and in-game there are many different bug-type obstacles, which include Virdian Forest, Bugsy of Johto, Petalburg Woods, Elite Four Aaron of Sinnoh, Burgh of Unova, and a possible (can't remember if confirmed) Kalos bug-type gym leader. In the actual game itself, the bug type is overwhelming for grass starters early on (or, in Sinnoh's case, an E4 member) and I kind of wish that was the type to go. However, I'm sure the flying type makes much more sense.

We can all wish for things but bug just makes too much sense. Maybe try for a different type or just make bugs less frequent.

 

[Turtwig]

We can all wish for things but bug just makes too much sense. Maybe try for a different type or just make bugs less frequent.

Okay sorry, I'm just saying that it's hard for grass starters due to bug being so common early-game, and it's just an added weakness. I did say above that it makes more sense than other weaknesses, though. I'm not against you, I'm just hopeful. Flying is the most unsure weakness of course.

 

[Mitja]

Taking away the Flying weakness would be a slight defensive buff, but how does that affect usefulness of Flying moves?
Strong against Fighting, Bug, resisted by Electric, Rock, Steel.. pretty much on the same level as Dark, Ghost, Psychic, Electric and Steel (pre-Fairy), in that it would then be SE on only 2 types, while being resisted by 3 (in two cases one is even an immunity), so it wouldn't be awful, but in the lowest "tier".
But imo Flying shouldn't be that low, its use is already pretty small, and now that Fairy will be yet another alternative for taking down Fighting types...

What would be a buff for Flying offense?

Does Flying>Ground make more sense than Flying>Grass?
It seems obvious to me right now and probably could do with the same reasoning Flying>Fighting uses.
But not sure if Ground can take another weakness, since its already weak to 3 types (Water, Ice, Grass), while having an Electric immunity and resisting two others (Poison, Rock).
It would still be better than Rock simply because it has an immunity (but that's very close to the bottom, with only Ice being worse, which we all agree needs a defensive buff anyway)

 

[Ohman177]

Flying> Ground, Grass, and Fighting all for the same reason: You are on the ground, you can't touch me.

 

[Drohn]

I never got why the Flying-type was weak to Rock-type attacks. Does it have something to do with shooting birds out of the air with stones?

If there is no good reason for it, I would like that to change.

 

[J.D.]

I never got why the Flying-type was weak to Rock-type attacks. Does it have something to do with shooting birds out of the air with stones?

If there is no good reason for it, I would like that to change.

In my mind, I always thought it was because a bird obviously couldn't fly carrying a rock.

I suppose the old saying "hitting two birds with one stone" could be applied as well.

 

[Turtwig]

It might be because rocks are kind of like barriers for wind. I mean that if you're having a tornado up in the mountains or something, it gets stuck in a pinball machine. It bounces back and forth between the mountains, unable to do any damage. Plus, you can always hide behind a boulder or a stone building in order to not get hit by the wind. It kind of "breaks" the wind

 

[J.D.]

It might be because rocks are kind of like barriers for wind. I mean that if you're having a tornado up in the mountains or something, it gets stuck in a pinball machine. It bounces back and forth between the mountains, unable to do any damage. Plus, you can always hide behind a boulder or a stone building in order to not get hit by the wind. It kind of "breaks" the wind

True, but blocking isn't the same as attacking; in fact it's the exact opposite. This perfectly explains why Rock resists Flying, but not why its offensively superior.

 

[Turtwig]

Well, it's like what was said earlier. You throw rocks at birds and they get hurt easily. Tornadoes weaken over time from hits like that, anyways. It makes some sense to me.

 

[professorlight]

Typing is not that simple... with gamefreak, it never is...

Types always have more than one meaning for them. flying is not birds, nor wind, nor the action of flying, it's all of them, and possibly more. They pull the typing relations from everything, from science, to common knowledge, to popular culture.

Maybe we should make a thread to put references and explanations to each type's basis, represenation and interactions? where should it go?

 

[Mitja]

Typing is not that simple... with gamefreak, it never is...

Types always have more than one meaning for them. flying is not birds, nor wind, nor the action of flying, it's all of them, and possibly more. They pull the typing relations from everything, from science, to common knowledge, to popular culture.

Maybe we should make a thread to put references and explanations to each type's basis, represenation and interactions? where should it go?

That would be interesting indeed.

I've been trying to make sense of types for a long time, and my view on what they represent has probably changed several times for each one, either by realizing that some aspect is prominent that the name itself doesn't imply, or where the name is actually misleading (the prime example being Dark=Evil), or by introduction of a handful new pokemon that point out something obvious that they didn't before (like Tornadus showing Flying can be about pure wind in an elemental sense).

Some of the things I see differently than 10 years ago would include the Ice type being more about cold in general rather than literally frozen water, its just that ice is the most obvious indicator of it.

I also thought of Ground and Rock as the two "earth" types (which I think many people find confusing at first), but later realized that Ground is very much the opposite to Flying. Its not the soil itself that's important, it's more about the concept of "ground" itself, meaning the fact that gravity pulls you down and there is something firm beneath you preventing further falling, and this fact can be abused through specific strategies (which don't work on Flying type as they are the exception to this fact). Sure there is the occasional "sand"-element pokemon (Hippowdon), but that's in the same sense as Flying has a wind-based one (Tornadus), while neither wind nor sand (or crystal or light or sound...) are exclusive to any particular type.

 

[Kamuie]

I wouldn't make Poison SE vs Normal, but I would vs Fighting, if you watch a lot of movies based on Martial Arts, most of the Masters are beaten through Poison because to fight them directly would mean defeat, so it could make sense for Fighting to gain a Poison weakness. And I guess Water and Grass could remain the same.

I like most of the other stuff from that revised early Type Chart, Ice should resist Ground and maybe even Water, Rock should resist Rock and Fire should hit it for 1x damage.

 

[McFadyen]

I've come to think that Poison could be very effective against Water. Therefore contamination and contaminated water it kills life.

 

[Ohman177]

I've come to think that Poison could be very effective against Water. Therefore contamination and contaminated water it kills life.

This and the ice and water resistance to each other are the main thing that need to be fixed to me.

 

[Bashamo]

Poison 2x on Water
Bug 1/2x on Ice
Fighting 1/2x on Fire (Yeah, you hit fire your gonna get burned)
Poison 2x on Bug (Why did GF drop this from G1's type chart?)
Dark 2x on Normal (I think Dark works better as normals only weakness)
Fighting 1x on Normal (I understand why fighting is 2x on normal, but I don't think it needs to be)
Bug 2x on Bug (Arthropods/ Invertebrates eat and kill each other all the time, if ghost beats ghost and dragon beats dragon; Why can't bug beat bug)
Bug 1x on Dark (I never understood why bug was 2x on dark?)
Bug 1x on Psychic (See above)
Bug 2x on Ground (Bugs are actually beneficial to the earth, but they can also do a lot of damage too it.)

I don't think the type chart needs editing but imo these changes make a bit more sense than what stands currently

 

[Ohman177]

Bug 1x on Psychic (See above)

Bug is strong against psychic because it is one of the main phobias that people have. These mess with the brain and mental stability of a creature, two things that the psychic type is built on. The same goes for dark and ghost.

 

[J.D.]

Whelp, looks like we don't have much more time to speculate all this... CoroCoro has confirmed the new type chart will be revealed next month.