Rotation: Love It or Hate It?

Will the next format be better or worse than before the rotation?


  • Total voters
    51

silver116

<(~__~)>
Member
Hey everyone! As ya already know (and if you don't it's kinda sad) a routine rotation is scheduled for sometime in September. Personally I HATE it whenever there is a rotation cause it renders a lot of decks useless. Especially now cause we lose vital staples and Pokemon primes. What do you think? Share your hopes, dreams, desires for the next format here! Or demise...
 
It will be different. It will still be skill-based, but in a different way. Without PONT and Smeargle, there really isn't any hyper-efficient, riskless draw left. So managing your resources will be much more important. The game will feel like it did in a pre-Junk Arm format. Which I personally prefer. But at the same time, I'll miss quite a few cards from the HS block. Mostly Smeargle.
 
From my testing from the new format, it is several times better than last format. Far more viable decks, stage 1/2 attackers can make a comeback, no donks, the game is more challenging, and basically every addition you could possibly want to fix this format. I'm really psyched for the next format, especially since in it I'll actually start playing in real life.
 
In terms of diversity and general metagame/overall deck strategy, it definitely is. In terms of promoting the most skilled player winning, I'm not convinced.
 
Celebi23 said:
In terms of diversity and general metagame/overall deck strategy, it definitely is. In terms of promoting the most skilled player winning, I'm not convinced.

I think that skill will make the difference, but not only the playing skill but even more the deckbuilding skill. Without Junk Arm it will be even more important to find the right number of every trainer in your deck, one of trainers are a pretty high risk and to use them in the right moment will be hard. Additionally there is a chance again to surprise people with new ways of building consistent decks, the use of Musharna for example wouldn't be that much of a reason for your opponent to laugh at you anymore... ^^
The variety of different decks in the format will also test the skill of every player to react on unusual situations which is definitely great.

All in all I think that in the BW-on format there will be the time to shine for the allrounders, who can build decks on their own and are able to play them as good as possible, which is for me the way a skill-based format should be.
 
One thing I've noticed that I really like about it is that most dead hands are fixed by an opponent's N, so games are less often decided by topdecks. Still, a lot of decks feel like they're on auto-pilot for the majority of the game, like Garchomp, since there's usually only one attacker. Zekrom/Eelektrik is actually quite a bit harder to play since it plays such a wide variety of attackers. In my BW-On ZekEels I have 6 different attackers at the moment, which gives you a lot of options against any matchup, but does allow for a greater margin for misplays. I'm looking forward to some aspects of the rotation, especially the variety, but I'm not really sure how luck based it will end up being.
 
In the next format, with limited resourses, focusing on a quick and heavy attacker is the best way to go. I'm running a Krookodile/ Darkrai EX (3-1-2Krook/3Darkrai) and I've found that if you get that T2 Stage 2 attack (Easier to get T2 attack than Darkrai), you can control the match early on, then focus on your bench, I know it doesn't count for anything, but in testing, I'm 5-3 against RaiEels and 3-1 against Quad-Entei. I thought starting with Krookodile was a bad thing, but with Dark Claw and a well timed PlusPower, you can quickly take an early lead. Suprisingly though, if my opponent drops a Terrakion when they are three prizes down is a minor problem because they go after my Darkrai instead of Krookodile, allowing me to return KO with Bombast, but if they KO Krookodile, I have Darkrai on bench, if I don't already have an Eviolite, I can usually draw into it (3/3 Both Tools). I have to do a bit more testing, but the point is, T2 Attacks are HUGE in the next format.

RogueListers said:
No Vileplume means no rogues. Oh well, time to buy Darkrai tins :/

That's not true, Rogues will be big in the next format because of the decreased speed of the BDIF's
 
JuStuPro said:
I think that skill will make the difference, but not only the playing skill but even more the deckbuilding skill. Without Junk Arm it will be even more important to find the right number of every trainer in your deck, one of trainers are a pretty high risk and to use them in the right moment will be hard. Additionally there is a chance again to surprise people with new ways of building consistent decks, the use of Musharna for example wouldn't be that much of a reason for your opponent to laugh at you anymore... ^^
The variety of different decks in the format will also test the skill of every player to react on unusual situations which is definitely great.

All in all I think that in the BW-on format there will be the time to shine for the allrounders, who can build decks on their own and are able to play them as good as possible, which is for me the way a skill-based format should be.

*chuckles*

Deck building skill? No, because every kid who wins tournaments net decks every deck lists and begs their parents to buy them $60 Darkrai EXs.

Pokemon TCG is 80% luck 10% strategy and 10% money.

Anywho, I love the rotation. The new format will be so much faster.
 
Milky said:
*chuckles*

Deck building skill? No, because every kid who wins tournaments net decks every deck lists and begs their parents to buy them $60 Darkrai EXs.

Pokemon TCG is 80% luck 10% strategy and 10% money.

Anywho, I love the rotation. The new format will be so much faster.

Actually, with all of the cards that are in the next set, Rogues are very popular, so if you can find a random list that works, like MagBoar, Groudon/Krookodile, Dustox/Volcarona, Death Sentence (New Gothitelle/Fliptini) you don't need a $60 Darkrai, really the only one of those decks that needs a EX is GroundKrooks.
 
Wish I was on my computer so I could make an image macro.

MAKES EPIC ROGUE DECK

WINS NATIONALS

EVERYONE BLOGS ABOUT IT AND IT IS NO LONGER ROGUE BECAUSE EVERYONE IS PLAYING IT.

Hammertime Darkrai all over again. Darkrai will be $15 because of the tins next format, BTW. Just saying that if the rogue you build is good enough to win nationals, then it isn't really a rogue, just an undiscovered gem.
 
That doesn't always happen I run a Donphan deck that took a few states, but it was still considered rogue.
 
RogueListers said:
No Vileplume means no rogues. Oh well, time to buy Darkrai tins :/

Gothitelle will still be there. You just need to know what to use it with.
 
Milky said:
Wish I was on my computer so I could make an image macro.

MAKES EPIC ROGUE DECK

WINS NATIONALS

EVERYONE BLOGS ABOUT IT AND IT IS NO LONGER ROGUE BECAUSE EVERYONE IS PLAYING IT.

Hammertime Darkrai all over again. Darkrai will be $15 because of the tins next format, BTW. Just saying that if the rogue you build is good enough to win nationals, then it isn't really a rogue, just an undiscovered gem.

So are you saying rogues most be bad?

Milky said:
Deck building skill? No, because every kid who wins tournaments net decks every deck lists and begs their parents to buy them $60 Darkrai EXs.

How is that true at all? Unless you have been living under a rock for a few years (no offense to people that live under rocks), the people who netdeck generally do not do well because they don't know how to play the deck. And how about the people who have the lists? Who will they netdeck from?

Also, for Darkrai EX part, if you invest nothing in Pokémon, then guess what? You're getting nothing too. Please do not say that one who buys a theme deck should deserve to win a tournament. You have to get what you need. I have 4 Darkrai EXs and I bought each and everyone of them with my own money (2 came from the boxes I bought).


I personally love the rotation because I hate the current format.
 
Adding to my first post, I believe that in the next format rouge decks will be prime. Also I believe that since most decks will be auto-piloted most games will be determined at the coin flip. The question will be: who can set up first? However, there will be BDIF's those decks that trump all the rouge decks and of course prices will rise. With less draw and less access to the discard pile people will have to learn to be conservative and will have to build their own list instead of using a cooky-cutter decklist.

In the end I believe that once people are given time to adjust to the new format it will be practically the same as when we lost last formats card such as the SP engine and bebes search. And for rouge players like me getting as many cards as possible at prerelease will be prime to discover those hidden gems.
 
My post was not an attack at investing money in Pokemon, although I am making a statement that rogue decks are bad. I personally think the high prices of certain Pokemon Cards are appropriate because they PREVENT the twelve year olds who do netdeck everything. My comment was a shot at the fact Pokemon has a much younger playerbase. If Darkrai were the price of dirt, our meta would look a lot like PlayTCG, where you can play any deck you want at no cost. It's pathetic really, I can't get much play testing against CMT etc. because it is filled with noobs and their free Darkrai decks roaming about. I personally have invested a lot of money into my ZekEels deck IRL and think the tins were a bad move. Thank god Darkrai and Mewtwo won't be so dominant post rotation, it's the Rayquaza I'm worried about.

Silver is correct in saying that there will be top tier decks that will trump rogue decks, because the top tier stuff performs the best and the rogues are decks nobody plays because they are t mainstream, nor viable in a meta full of top tier decks, because they get ROFLstomped. I don't think any deck can be called rogue when it reaches Tier 1 - 1.5.

If I MUST acknowledge Deckbuilding skill, it'd be a very small factor. Current format deck building works a lot like this: "Oh 4 Junk Arm and Catcher are staples so I'm definitely putting these in!" and I speculate not much will change in the new format.
 
Milky said:
My post was not an attack at investing money in Pokemon, although I am making a statement that rogue decks are bad. I personally think the high prices of certain Pokemon Cards are appropriate because they PREVENT the twelve year olds who do netdeck everything. My comment was a shot at the fact Pokemon has a much younger playerbase. If Darkrai were the price of dirt, our meta would look a lot like PlayTCG, where you can play any deck you want at no cost. It's pathetic really, I can't get much play testing against CMT etc. because it is filled with noobs and their free Darkrai decks roaming about. I personally have invested a lot of money into my ZekEels deck IRL and think the tins were a bad move. Thank god Darkrai and Mewtwo won't be so dominant post rotation, it's the Rayquaza I'm worried about.

Silver is correct in saying that there will be top tier decks that will trump rogue decks, because the top tier stuff performs the best and the rogues are decks nobody plays because they are t mainstream, nor viable in a meta full of top tier decks, because they get ROFLstomped. I don't think any deck can be called rogue when it reaches Tier 1 - 1.5.

If I MUST acknowledge Deckbuilding skill, it'd be a very small factor. Current format deck building works a lot like this: "Oh 4 Junk Arm and Catcher are staples so I'm definitely putting these in!" and I speculate not much will change in the new format.

First of all, there's nothing wrong with people playing the best deck regardless of cost. You shouldn't win simply because you were willing to invest money into a more expensive deck, although I do understand having to buy something more than a theme deck, but "whoever paid the most wins" is not the kind of game that most people want to play. If the people in your area aren't playing the best decks like the people on playtcg and you want to test against other decks, simply ask around for someone willing to use the deck you want to test against-its not that hard.

And you're worried about Rayquaza next format. This is the part that makes it evident that you haven't tested it all. Rayquaza is, frankly, trash. It does poorly against every top tier deck in the format. Garchomp gets easy OHKOs on it for 2 prizes in one turn without giving Rayquaza any chances to keep up in the prize exchange. Darkrai 2HKOs Rayquaza and Rayquaza needs 4-5 energy, burning 3-4, to KO it-not something it can do reliably when Darkrai is killing off the the Eels starting t2. Big basics such as Terrakion and Zekrom just cause Rayquaza to burn a ton of energy for a single prize and can keep up an even prize trade at the same time.

And seriously, you don't seem to know what you're saying with rogue decks either. Rogue decks are decks nobody plays because they are too mainstream? Somebody give me another desk because I just facedesked the one I'm using so hard that it broke. The whole point of a rogue deck is that its not mainstream. You don't think a deck can be rogue and tier 1-1.5 at the same time? So, considering that google Cawthon, who t2ed worlds in masters last year, was the only person in the whole event running The Truth, you either consider a deck that 1 person in the whole worlds tournament runs not a rogue, or you consider the deck that t2ed worlds not tier 1-1.5. Or both.

So you're saying that having staples is bad because it takes away skill? On top of the thought of a game without staples being fairly ridiculous, it actually requires skill in deckbuilding. First of all, if there are no cards in the format necessary to success, this means that practically anything can be good regardless of the decklist. While we want rogue decks, we do not want a format where you can add basically any cards and the decklist is still competitive because then there's no skill in deckbuilding. In addition, having certain spots in your decklist that must be used for a certain card gives you less space to work with, therefore making deckbuilding more difficult because you cannot simply go 3-4 of every card you could want in the deck, you must carefully decide which cards are worth the space.
 
Milky said:
*chuckles*

Deck building skill? No, because every kid who wins tournaments net decks every deck lists and begs their parents to buy them $60 Darkrai EXs.

Pokemon TCG is 80% luck 10% strategy and 10% money.

Anywho, I love the rotation. The new format will be so much faster.

1. The format after rotation will be WHAT. Have you even tested yet? Why do you think Emolga BW 5 can be something like a staple and the top two decks in Japan both involve a Stage 2? Right because the format is much slower with the loss of smeargle, the higher risk Juniper provides and the Dual Ball loss. I really hope it was irony from your side...

2. If Pokemon TCG is 80% luck, why can Esa win so many Nationals in Finland? Why can a lot of people earn that many CP's?
Yeah right, because it is all about luck ^^ (/irony mode off)
Skill in deckbuilding is incredibly important, because just to copy a decklist from the internet won't bring you anywhere if you aren't able to adapt to your metagame.
And in Germany for example the same player became second at Nationals 3 times already and always with decks not played by anyone else... just because he is that great at deckbuilding and playing his inventions...

3. Tins are great, just because players who weren't able to spend 50+ bugs for a single card can also play some cool decks next season, especially Darkrai is good to be usable by anyone, because the free retreat is something great to have. Mewtwo is still a nice little tech especially because there aren't that many people playing it anymore.

4. Darkrai will still be so many times better than Rayquaza in the next season, just because Garchomp will take Rayquaza and beat it until it has a nice little Dragon snack for his Altaria friends... sorry too much imagination but you know what I mean ^^

So thats all, hopefully there is something for you to chuckle about again =P
 
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