Something I've noticed lately at PokéBeach

[CMP]

I think it's time to give my two cents (for what it's worth). I've been a moderator since August 2010, an s-mod since November, and I'd like to think that I've been relatively consistent. In that time, there have been countless instances of staff turnover. Have I agreed with all of the changes? Not always, but usually there are good reasons. Oftentimes the reasons are personal, and are things that couldn't have been foreseen when the staff member in question was modded.

To be completely honest, I would love to see some form of staff nominations when choosing moderators. Often the best candidates are those who have high rapport with members, and those would (hopefully) be among those nominated. While it may take more time, I think an interview process between current staff and the nominees could effectively produce a staff which both members and existing staff alike are happy with. As Xous pointed out, those in charge of Community Works, VG, or TCG have more of a say in promotions in their own areas, which is as it should be...but add in more member support and I think a great system could be implemented.

Ironically enough, I'm involved in student government at my university, and we've recently had a problem with a student who didn't believe student government was engaging enough with the student population. He believed that communication isn't at the level it needed to be to be the best student government could be. I feel that this is a very similar situation, and it will take a dedicated group of members and staff working together to find a solution. Unfortunately, you can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink -- while there are some of you who would like to see more communication, there will always be those who let things like this pass. I've always had an open door policy, though I perhaps haven't made that clear enough to everyone. I apologize for that, but I'm not sure how to make it more obvious (without it being in-your-face).

I'm willing to work with as many of you who will have me in helping to find a solution. Just let me know. I'd suggest, first of all, some form of staff-member liaison to help facilitate better communication (at least in the meantime while we brainstorm a more lasting endpoint).

 

[PDC]

@Teal : My shift key actually is broken (i'm missing one), along with about 10 other keys. I really do need a computer >_>

@ Celebi : My main point about attitude is how for a group like that you really do not need to improve you attitude. you just comment and correct what is wrong. Sure, I will improve my attitude, but honestly for something like this it's either your right or not on what your checking. Your not going to need much communication for something like that. It's 3 seperate (or more) people stating opinions on articles.

@Mark : C&C basically review and article by themselves, if 3 seperate members reach a conclusion (as in 3 checks) the article will be passed. Then we do something similar to Grammer Checks. We see if the idea is in the right mind, then check the grammar. I'll admit I made mistakes as a moderator, but I thought you had it covered. yet when I did post critisism you never even changed anything about it. Also, yes I curse. That affects mods, not a usergroup that simply checks items. I am trying to adjust from my mistakes I have made as a mod to make the staff better. The group I am proposing is more accurate and skilled than simply contributors thanks to specifically skilled members being picked.

 

[Professor Palutena]

@Mark : C&C basically review and article by themselves, if 3 seperate members reach a conclusion (as in 3 checks) the article will be passed. Then we do something similar to Grammer Checks. We see if the idea is in the right mind, then check the grammar. I'll admit I made mistakes as a moderator, but I thought you had it covered. yet when I did post critisism you never even changed anything about it. Also, yes I curse. That affects mods, not a usergroup that simply checks items. I am trying to adjust from my mistakes I have made as a mod to make the staff better. The group I am proposing is more accurate and skilled than simply contributors thanks to specifically skilled members being picked.

Contributors already do this. They look over the article and make sure it contains all the correct info. Then the editing crew, which are contributors like Zyflair and The Fallen One, do the spelling and grammar checks. C&C is basically a new name for contributors, as the same stuff is still accomplished.

 

[Zyflair]

Contributors already do this. They look over the article and make sure it contains all the correct info. Then the editing crew, which are contributors like Zyflair and The Fallen One, do the spelling and grammar checks. C&C is basically a new name for contributors, as the same stuff is still accomplished.

Just confirming this, I do actually proofread some of the articles (sans Glaceon. TFO can go handle that :3) on my own free time.

 

[Celebi23]

Basically what I'm getting from this thread at this point is that you guys want us to stop changing so much, and be more clear about changes when they do happen.

I'm fine with that. However, in order to stop changing, we need to create a "perfect" beach. So, without any complaining and ranting, does anybody want to give me a list of future changes they want? After we carry out everybody's suggestions (provided they're necessary), we can try to stop changing. Simple enough in theory.

One idea I want implemented is to have a forum where you can post a complaint or suggestion about the forum, but only you and staff can see the thread. That lets us address the problem without having to deal with all the drama bullcrap we get when somebody makes a public thread like this.

 

[Hot N' Spicy]

I just need to say something here. This is ridiculous. Why do people come on Pokebeach? The answer is for entertainment and community. Talks of power and lofty ideals are rather insane when put in perspective. This site's purpose is to be a fun place for Pokemon enthusiasts to hang out. To be honest, much of the argument here is an obvious attempt to generate self esteem from status on a Pokemon site. Moderators and Contributors are here to provide content and prevent the community from degenerating by enforcing the rules. Being a moderator isn't like being a boss, or even a student council representative. It really isn't that fun either, you do work and don't get paid... It's for those who truly want to help the site fulfill its purpose of entertainment and community better. Can someone please tell me what the problems are now, after looking through this perspective?

 

[Cris]

I there a

of the important points brought up by both mods and members?

 

[One Approved]

So, without any complaining and ranting, does anybody want to give me a list of future changes they want?

Less member complaints and more member trust?

As a former moderator, I can vouch for the fact that we don't just "go through mods as party animals go through condoms." as an anonymous member put it. Every single selection and de-selection has a valid reasoning behind it. It is impossible to predict the future. We can't tell when people will go on rampages at the staff, or break the rules as a mod. It's not possible. The selections made are based on years of contributing and past experiences with the members. If you can't trust the staff on these decisions, I don't know who you can. I for one would trust King Arceus, Pride, PMJ, WPM, and Shining Raikou more than I would trust any of you regular members. As stated before, it would simply turn into a popularity contest if we let you people loose in all of the mod-making decisions.

What about being clued in on what's going on behind the scenes? Most of the time you aren't clued in because the idea is speculative. IT isn't set up, and we don't know if we're going to carry it through or not. I for one would not want to give out ideas on what we're doing for the TCG area or VG area, just to have the project blow up in our face. Communications on why/how staff is modded/demodded I have a bit less say on, since I have never been a part of a team that demods people. What I can say, is most of the time, the people who get demodded wish their reasons to be kept between the mods and themselves. This is the case with most resignations as well. The few people I saw resign when I was a VG moderator didn't go around flaunting to other members "i resigned because of this this and this." So if you want more communication in this area, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Now can we please stop acting like an angry mob please go back to pokemon? Seriously. You're all complaining about a pokemon site. This thread is incredible. If the mods make a decision and you don't like it THAT MUCH, contact one of them privately. We don't need an entire thread discussing how you don't agree with a decision that was thought out over a long period of time.

As for a future change Celebi, more casual VG stuff would be cool. It's been stated multiple times, but I'm going to say it anyways. We're not smogon. We can never hope to be smogon. So we should be showing off our strengths- a more casual atmosphere. Casual tournaments such as the Lucky Catches tournament are a good idea. I'm not saying we should never have competitive tournaments, just more casual ones.

 

[Celebi23]

I there a

of the important points brought up by both mods and members?

This is a tl;dr for the thread.

Now can we please stop acting like an angry mob please go back to pokemon? Seriously. You're all complaining about a pokemon site. This thread is incredible. If the mods make a decision and you don't like it THAT MUCH, contact one of them privately. We don't need an entire thread discussing how you don't agree with a decision that was thought out over a long period of time.

 

[Professor Palutena]

To be completely honest, I would love to see some form of staff nominations when choosing moderators. Often the best candidates are those who have high rapport with members, and those would (hopefully) be among those nominated. While it may take more time, I think an interview process between current staff and the nominees could effectively produce a staff which both members and existing staff alike are happy with. As Xous pointed out, those in charge of Community Works, VG, or TCG have more of a say in promotions in their own areas, which is as it should be...but add in more member support and I think a great system could be implemented.

I'd also like a system like this. If people are complaining about not being part of decisions and discussions, then what is lost by letting members have some input? Obviously, the ones in the positions of authority have the final say, but member input should have some kind of positive effect.

One idea I want implemented is to have a forum where you can post a complaint or suggestion about the forum, but only you and staff can see the thread. That lets us address the problem without having to deal with all the drama bullcrap we get when somebody makes a public thread like this.

Also liking this. Mostly because it deals with the complaints on a one-to-one level (being member-to-smod).

 

[Zero]

Finally someone echoes what I've been saying. As a mod, I was one of the few people to really address certain issues. Others may not like my style of how I debate, but that is to be expected. I was one of the first people to get in-your-face with WPM and Rocket. I was crude. I was aggressive. I was addressing important issues. The responses I got? Pretty much "learn your place" responses instead of addressing the issue. I specifically remember WPM telling me to quiet down and Omahanime telling me to never argue with my boss when I'm on the job. That isn't how you address issues. Rocket, Celebi23, and I have had very intelligent conversations and change has taken place as a result of those conversations. Whenever I address WPM, however, he'll either avoid the issue (he LOVES the "you aren't me so you wouldn't get it" argument) or take his word for the final answer. We once had a mod discussion as to how we should conduct our TCG section. The entire call wanted to target the tournament-going public, while WPM wanted to target those who did not even go to league. The entire call agreed that the TCG content should not be dumbed down for the crowd that barely knows how to play the game. WPM wanted to have it his way, though (like BK).

Next, the site's moderating staff has a lot of drones. Having been involved in behind-the-scenes stuff, I can tell you for a fact that there are some moderators who barely do anything, but are kept because of their loyalty and their suck-up-ness to the staff. I can remember three to four people who merely echoed "know your place" in my ear. When I got demodded, there were a few people who basically said "good riddance" whom I thought to be my friends. The logical response to finding flaws in a person is to talk to them. Talking behind my back doesn't really solve anything... especially if those people are my friends. If issues were addressed rather than avoided, I think the majority of us would be happier people.


The moderators need to work together a bit better, and they can provide a better product for the users. Going through mods quickly is fine, but it would be better if it was for good reasons. My demodding was because of a series of conversations that were blown way out of proportion (we've got a drama queen acting as a blue). Others got demodded due to laziness. Gale had a legitimate demodding -- he gave us warning ahead of time. The less mods we go through, the more professional we look. Pokegym is very professional in appearance... we are not. We need to seriously work on mod-smod communication skills and appearance as a whole. PB's rep as the worst PTCG forum is for a good reason. It will keep that rep unless the staff team actually starts acting as a group. Another issue is that the average PTCG skill level of PB is that of a brick, but that's another discussion ;D


On a side note, age does not equal skill/experience. It implies skill/experience, but Glaceon should be fine. AMT was 12 when she got smodded, and she was easily one of the best pinks we've had. This is a common fallacy that I despise everytime I see. Glaceon is good enough for government work, so he's good enough here.

 

[omahanime]

As if you do not talk about other people. I wonder how these members would feel about you if they saw everything you said about them.


I have heard some of the things you have said about me behind my back.

 

[Zero]

As if you do not talk about other people. I wonder how these members would feel about you if they saw everything you said about them.


I have heard some of the things you have said about me behind my back.

Fair then? I'll tell people they are morons pretty much straight up. I don't hide it in "private" conversations. I'm not the one in command of a group. Especially when people are working under you, you should be very transparent. If someone has a flaw, say it straight up. For example, you've heard what I say about you behind your back? I'd hope so because it is the same thing I'll say about you in public. Your strict adherance to the set rules creates issues when the set rules are faulty at best. You are basically a drone in my book. You've agreed with the "superiors" on just about every issue that has come up and you've given me many "get in your place" speeches. I don't think you've once come at me or another discussion head-on. You only nod your head when others talk.

Anyways, I'd like to add that mods and smods should both have levels of transparency. Positive discussions can result from transparent practices. These discussions will definitely create change, but all members should be equals despite any perceived levels and ranks.

 

[omahanime]

Fair then? I'll tell people they are morons pretty much straight up. I don't hide it in "private" conversations. I'm not the one in command of a group. Especially when people are working under you, you should be very transparent. If someone has a flaw, say it straight up. For example, you've heard what I say about you behind your back? I'd hope so because it is the same thing I'll say about you in public. Your strict adherance to the set rules creates issues when the set rules are faulty at best. You are basically a drone in my book. You've agreed with the "superiors" on just about every issue that has come up and you've given me many "get in your place" speeches. I don't think you've once come at me or another discussion head-on. You only nod your head when others talk.

Anyways, I'd like to add that mods and smods should both have levels of transparency. Positive discussions can result from transparent practices. These discussions will definitely create change, but all members should be equals despite any perceived levels and ranks.

Calling me a drone is one of the nicer things you have said.

I gave you my many "get in your place" speeches, in hopes you would realize there are times you have to save your battle for another day.

So you believe the rules are flawed, so please show me a place where they are not flawed. You were continually going around and around with your beliefs with WPM. He kept saying no. What happens if you continually argue the rules with a teacher, or a parent, or a boss? It used to be suspension, grounding, or firing. That is the way the world works.
I thought there was validity in your argument but I do not play the TCG, so I tried to stay out it. I stepped in, with hopes both sides would think it over. Unfortunately I came off sounding like a grandparent.

I have a challenge for everyone. Go over to someone's house and break their rules. Tell me how long before you are told to leave. The house is their property, PokéBeach is WPM's property.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

Why doesn't someone summarize all of this in to 1-3 concise paragraphs and PM it to me. I don't have the time or energy to read all of this.

Also, Zero is just butthurt that he still doesn't know how to be a team member. I would take his opinions with a grain of salt - he feeds off drama. JMO.

 

[Pride]

we have a much smaller playerbase than Smogon, vg and tcg combined, yet we practically have more mods than they do.

Have you actually seen how many mods Smogon has? They're a very large forum and require a lot of moderators, far more then us and they have many more Mods then us. Smogon Moderator Groups

I currently have four mods (with PMJ and King Arceus putting in time) but I've also lost two mods since I've taken over. I haven't made any more additions to the staff because I'm very pleased with my staff and how we work together. To those that generalize and say there isn't enough communication between the super moderators and the regular moderators don't actually understand what they are saying, are not part of the moderator team, or simply talking out of assumption. I talk to each of my moderators constantly and ask their opinions on how to move forward. I speak to several of the VG contributors (Bippa, Hyper, ect.) and ask their opinions on how to improve. Ultimately it is my decision on what we do but I give a lot of freedom to my mods because I trust them.

the sole reason was because of my "attitude". wow, just wow is all i can really say.

Attitude matters far more then you think. It creates unnecessary drama, takes focus away from what should be done, and stalls processes from going through. Your proposed correction and contribution group does already exist in the VG contributors. Its essentially what it is right now.

As for as communication between staff and members. Just ask me through PM, chat, on Pokemon Online, etc. I'm on very frequently and I'll just talk. I don't hide anything. I believe the VG section has been improving, slowly, but surely improving.

 

[Water Pokémon Master]

I read the first post and stopped. Everything with you guys is about power. Power, power, power. Everyone is so desperate for power. I'm not sure I trust the "noble" intentions behind the creation of this thread - sounds exactly like DNA is trying to fish for a mod position; doing what Gale did - trying to address a problem in the hopes of getting brownie points from us, acting as if he knows what is going on, bringing up vague issues, acting so noble and heroic. Gale actually had good suggestions in mind, you do not, and your obvious plan has completely backfired and fallen flat on its face. I can see right through your pathetic little plan - your second-to-last paragraph made me LOL. What is this, a job application? You were one sentence short of saying "I want to be a mod." Just a few problems...

Your first post started off with an incorrect premise - a guess - a flawed correlation - and just devolved from there, as others, including Gale, have explained. The rest of your post is ludicrous, especially when you are not a mod and cannot possibly give an opinion on what goes into our decisions when you, as a regular member, are not included and will never be included. The best you can do is guess, and from what I'm reading, you have a rather wild conception of our team. The fact that our mods have stepped forward and have defended the "organization" shows this. We are a team of people with proven qualities and we make decisions as a group. If a mod has a problem with how things are run, they are able to bring it up behind closed doors and we deal with it from there. Just because you are not included in our decisions does not mean we have failed to communicate with you. Fact is, we do not HAVE to communicate with you. Sorry, but that's just how organizations work. That's not to say we're not going to ask our members for their opinions on certain things, or help, or contributions, or suggestions. But this isn't a government. It's a Pokemon fan site's forum. We have intelligent people on our team and we work together amongst ourselves first.

I am closing this thread because it is ridiculous and I don't want to deal with it. If you want to help this site, contribute. If you want to be a mod, go above and beyond that. DNA, you have failed.