Supreme Court Legalizes Gay Marriage

[crystal_pidgeot]

See, the definition of "marriage" has always been religious in nature and if you remove the religious implication from marriage, what do you have? You have a word that mean a union of two. Literally no one else in the world haves a issue with same sex marriage but those of religious beliefs. I believe this should have never been a problem to begin with. The whole goal has to be equality for every American pretty much since the beginning of America but religion has always been in the way of progress equality.

Now Otaku, I always look forward to your post, they are always long and fun to read or debate and in some cases, I don't think I could even get on your level since you are very knowledgeable but here is a little hard to read. I know you're religious (now away) and you belong to the christian (not sure which one) faith and they have certain beliefs. I, as well as other secularist and atheist consider this a very huge win for the LGBT community and those that are opposed to the decision or are sitting on the bench about it are almost exclusively religious in nature.

In term of "human rights", no state should have the power to tell another human (in terms of rights of the individual) what they can and cannot do. The states that legalized same sex marriage did so because of equal rights. The only argument I ever hear is "this is an attack on my religious rights" or "this is not what marriage is suppose to be". It does not matter what the definition of marriage is changed to. It literally affects NO ONE in America. It doesn't affect Atheist, the Religious or those on the fence about it. A same sex couple doesn't affect how my daily actions goes, just like it doesn't affect the daily actions of the religious and to say it has an impact on your life is very disrespectful and offensive to people like me (Atheist and secular humanist) who don't see any evidence for the existence of God, that people base their beliefs on that often find those beliefs in the form of laws, like the one that prevent same sex couples from getting the same rights most of us take for granted.

The Supreme Court stepped in and said "equal rights for all", which is what America was founded on. Now I for once, in American history is very glad to see God taking a back seat to human progress. Now if anyone takes this victory as a violation to their religious right, then you have some soul searching to do.

 

[steffenka]

LGB* No "T".

T in LGBTQSA ect. stands for Transgender, and by extension anyone who falls under the Trans Umbrella. While the Supreme Court has decided on allowing people to marry freely, we sit in the dark. Skyrocketing murder rates. Suicide attempt rates reaching 50% (a statistic to which I take part in). Beatings in the streets. Disrespect from our own fricking president who had claimed to stand by us all the way. Onlookers laugh as someone attempts to rap~e me on my second day presenting female in the streets of our great nation's capital only because I'm the trans girl. A simple marriage bill helps none of this. I've been waiting my entire life for a possibility to transition, and after coming out and getting in contact with someone who can supply me with such a life changing thing back in November of last year; I'm still waiting, because as a trans girl; I have very little rights here, and nothing is being done to fix that.

Sorry about that, this issue has been building up and just seeing that little discrepancy allowed me to blow up. I apologize if this sounds aggressive.

No it's fine, considering what you're going through. But Transgendered people do fall under this too (I think). Was it you that said you were a straight male transitioning to a gay female? If so, then you are affected by this law change, because you as a lesbian are now allowed to marry another woman. Same the other way around. One thing though: I already knew what T stands for ^^

 

[Shining Raikou]

In term of "human rights", no state should have the power to tell another human (in terms of rights of the individual) what they can and cannot do. The states that legalized same sex marriage did so because of equal rights. The only argument I ever hear is "this is an attack on my religious rights" or "this is not what marriage is suppose to be". It does not matter what the definition of marriage is changed to. It literally affects NO ONE in America. It doesn't affect Atheist, the Religious or those on the fence about it. A same sex couple doesn't affect how my daily actions goes, just like it doesn't affect the daily actions of the religious and to say it has an impact on your life is very disrespectful and offensive to people like me (Atheist and secular humanist) who don't see any evidence for the existence of God, that people base their beliefs on that often find those beliefs in the form of laws, like the one that prevent same sex couples from getting the same rights most of us take for granted.

The Supreme Court stepped in and said "equal rights for all", which is what America was founded on. Now I for once, in American history is very glad to see God taking a back seat to human progress. Now if anyone takes this victory as a violation to their religious right, then you have some soul searching to do.

The problem with the religious getting offended by such a thing is they always refer to the bible. The bible tells you many things not to do, but we single out the "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination." part. It also says in the bible not to wear certain threads, eat certain foods, and not to cut your hair/shave, etc (see here for more). It is my firmly held belief that if you single out this one part of this book, you should be following the rest of it. It is also my belief that law and religion should not mix.

I also notice a pattern between people who cite this verse and then say that homosexuals are perverse, unnatural, unfitting parents of children, etc. This has to often do with people passing judgment on what couples decide to do in private, their personalities, or appearance. That should be none of their concern and does not affect anyone else. What is and should be of concern in any relationship or marriage is how much the people love and commit to each other. Two human beings willing to take care of each other and or children should be able to have the dignity of marriage, the protection of the law, and all of the freedoms straight people have but aren't often thankful enough for.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Just to add as well, it also talks about divorce, which is very high in the Christan community despite the teachings. While I am an atheist, I find it very important to know the bible and do see the things forbidden by the bible done in everyday life, like what you said above. We also dont see children being stoned, etc but the gay argument was always so vocal. I find it odd that to become a leader of America or a state, you MUST be religious. Its not against the law (unless you want to hold office in states like Texas) to hold office but you wont be voted for by those if you aren't their religion. There is no separation between church and state so I'm very glad to see human rights win here.

Another funny thing is we allow people to marry who dont even love each other but when a same sex couple wants to, they were not allowed to. I was always disgusted by that. This is just one more step in the right direction. I do still fear for them because they can still be refused services, like they are now for things and this is what I want to see fixed next. If people lose religious rights, then so be it. I would much rather people lose religious rights, where there hasn't be any proof for the rights of living people here and now.

 

[thegrovylekid]

Just a disclaimer: I did not intend for this post to be seen as an attack on religion. This is simply my counter-argument to the argument that it goes against religion. If you do see it that way, I'm sure we can sort this out like gentlemen in a PM.



As someone who's never picked up a bible and read it, I find myself thinking more in a "For the people" manner than in a "For God!" manner. As such, equality in my mind comes first, making this a welcome and logical step. Also, the bible also forbids wearing revealing clothing, eating bacon...

just look here: http://list25.com/25-normal-things-the-bible-forbids-but-we-still-do/

This is why the whole: "My religion!" argument isn't as solid as people want it to be. Look at number 13 on the above list. Women speaking in church. The next time you go to church, try and count how many times you see or hear a woman speaking in church. The bible [and the religion by extent] forbids many ordinary things to the point that I'm sure all of us would be in H*ll right now if the world were to end.

But we can't have gay marriage, now can we? We can't just marry who we love, right? Does it matter what sex the person is so long as they both love eachother? I think it doesn't, and I'm glad that I can attempt to produce a counter-argument against the swarm of religious arguments.

#LoveWins.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Just a disclaimer: I did not intend for this post to be seen as an attack on religion. This is simply my counter-argument to the argument that it goes against religion. If you do see it that way, I'm sure we can sort this out like gentlemen in a PM.



As someone who's never picked up a bible and read it, I find myself thinking more in a "For the people" manner than in a "For God!" manner. As such, equality in my mind comes first, making this a welcome and logical step. Also, the bible also forbids wearing revealing clothing, eating bacon...

just look here: http://list25.com/25-normal-things-the-bible-forbids-but-we-still-do/

This is why the whole: "My religion!" argument isn't as solid as people want it to be. Look at number 13 on the above list. Women speaking in church. The next time you go to church, try and count how many times you see or hear a woman speaking in church. The bible [and the religion by extent] forbids many ordinary things to the point that I'm sure all of us would be in H*ll right now if the world were to end.

But we can't have gay marriage, now can we? We can't just marry who we love, right? Does it matter what sex the person is so long as they both love eachother? I think it doesn't, and I'm glad that I can attempt to produce a counter-argument against the swarm of religious arguments.

#LoveWins.

This is why I find it important to bring up religion in such a discussion because it is, in my belief the root of the problem at hand.

 

[bbninjas]

The problem with the religious getting offended by such a thing is they always refer to the bible. The bible tells you many things not to do, but we single out the "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, it is an abomination." part. It also says in the bible not to wear certain threads, eat certain foods, and not to cut your hair/shave, etc (see here for more). It is my firmly held belief that if you single out this one part of this book, you should be following the rest of it. It is also my belief that law and religion should not mix.

I do believe that multiple times throughout the New Testament (i.e. not only in that book) there are references against homosexuality (depending on your interpretation); the one you pointed out is the one that is pretty difficult to misinterpret. Other than that, I really don't feel like the bible itself is a very practical way in trying to prove an argument. If my knowledge serves me correct, Christians are really the only people who care about/follow the Bible specifically. Effectively, this means that Christians using Christian texts will serve little to no purpose in reasoning a point to someone not Christian, as the latter obviously don't have any connection to the text (I like to call this Bible Bashing, and effectively that is exactly what it is). I also think the Bible (and other texts written at a religious point of view) should not be used by a non-Christian to reason with a Christian or fellow non-Christian, as more often than not, you do not have a full understanding of the text (Atheists theologians I think appropriately can use the Bible has a discussion tool due to their knowledge). Basically, I hate seeing the Bible used as some sort of barter tool to push someone one way or the other, and it really disappoints me to see people using it that way.

@thegrovylekid This above is something I would use to respond to your post as well, despite being written as a response to SR. Also, I think that post is completely logical, and doesn't feel like an attack

I also notice a pattern between people who cite this verse and then say that homosexuals are perverse, unnatural, unfitting parents of children, etc. This has to often do with people having insecurity toward what couples decide to do in private, their personalities, or appearance. That should be none of their concern and does not affect anyone else. What is and should be of concern in any relationship or marriage is how much the people love and commit to each other. Two human beings willing to take care of each other and or children should be able to have the dignity of marriage, the protection of the law, and all of the freedoms straight people have but aren't often thankful enough for.

To something more discussion worthy. I find it curious that you bring up the point of 'unfitting parents of children'. Personally I believe that two or more constantly available parental figures of both sexes are required to directly input into the life of any child raised. Males and females both have different skills and beliefs that come naturally, and, perhaps most importantly, deal with more emotional things different to the other gender. Only having a single sex raising a child is what I think is detrimental to the well being of the actual child, especially if the child is of opposite sex to the couple. Now, you're totally right about this is none of my business in the perspective of I can't force someone to change their opinion, but I do feel I have the right to state my own opinion and be concerned about the well being of other people, in this case the child, who would be a direct result to whatever the couple chooses. Now, you could easily say I'm not considering the couple in this path, so it really comes down to what the couple decides as most important.

 

[Shining Raikou]

I do believe that multiple times throughout the New Testament (i.e. not only in that book) there are references against homosexuality (depending on your interpretation); the one you pointed out is the one that is pretty difficult to misinterpret. Other than that, I really don't feel like the bible itself is a very practical way in trying to prove an argument. If my knowledge serves me correct, Christians are really the only people who care about/follow the Bible specifically. Effectively, this means that Christians using Christian texts will serve little to no purpose in reasoning a point to someone not Christian, as the latter obviously don't have any connection to the text (I like to call this Bible Bashing, and effectively that is exactly what it is). I also think the Bible (and other texts written at a religious point of view) should not be used by a non-Christian to reason with a Christian or fellow non-Christian, as more often than not, you do not have a full understanding of the text (Atheists theologians I think appropriately can use the Bible has a discussion tool due to their knowledge). Basically, I hate seeing the Bible used as some sort of barter tool to push someone one way or the other, and it really disappoints me to see people using it that way.

@thegrovylekid This above is something I would use to respond to your post as well, despite being written as a response to SR. Also, I think that post is completely logical, and doesn't feel like an attack

So what you are saying is both sides should mind their own business and not use the text against one another. I actually agree with this and hate the back and forth myself. My biggest issue is when the law becomes involved and targets people not necessarily of a religion that prohibits whatever. All people do not have the same religion and should be able to choose what they are involved with/personally disapprove of. This is why it is dangerous to mix these bible verses with the law.

To something more discussion worthy. I find it curious that you bring up the point of 'unfitting parents of children'. Personally I believe that two or more constantly available parental figures of both sexes are required to directly input into the life of any child raised. Males and females both have different skills and beliefs that come naturally, and, perhaps most importantly, deal with more emotional things different to the other gender. Only having a single sex raising a child is what I think is detrimental to the well being of the actual child, especially if the child is of opposite sex to the couple. Now, you're totally right about this is none of my business in the perspective of I can't force someone to change their opinion, but I do feel I have the right to state my own opinion and be concerned about the well being of other people, in this case the child, who would be a direct result to whatever the couple chooses. Now, you could easily say I'm not considering the couple in this path, so it really comes down to what the couple decides as most important.

This is a guy who turned out just fine and had two mothers. One example is not enough, but having same sex parents is not detrimental to a child's development. What is important and what I wish that was focused on more in ALL relationships/marriages is parenting and the qualities instilled in the child. Upbringing is the most important part of parenting, not what sex the parents are. I think there are parents both straight and gay who probably shouldn't be parents, but that doesn't have me out to get people's kids taken away or their rights to adopt revoked. I think all people deserve a chance at being parents, and let their children be taken away if they show they cannot handle them.

 

[bbninjas]

So what you are saying is both sides should mind their own business and not use the text against one another. I actually agree with this and hate the back and forth myself. My biggest issue is when the law becomes involved and targets people not necessarily of a religion that prohibits whatever. All people do not have the same religion and should be able to choose what they are involved with/personally disapprove of. This is why it is dangerous to mix these bible verses with the law.

I'm not exactly saying that people should mind their own business (but in a way I guess I am). I more am saying that the Bible is not really an appropriate text to use in argument unless a) both people have particularly good insight in the text b) both people actually agree with/care about/follow the text (i.e pointless a Christian using the Bible to prove an argument to someone without a religion). I think I get what you mean in the area of law, but I'll leave that alone because of my legal knowledge being so little. I think that each person has their own little set of laws and rules that they follow personally, which is where things like biblical texts come in and interact fine. When people think they must press their own laws and rules onto another person is when, I think, a dangerous mix happens. Now I know that you're more talking about the government law, but since (as I already said) I'm not well equipped for discussing government law, I've really got nothing else to say.

This is a guy who turned out just fine and had two mothers. One example is not enough, but having same sex parents is not detrimental to a child's development. What is important and what I wish that was focused on more in ALL relationships/marriages is parenting and the qualities instilled in the child. Upbringing is the most important part of parenting, not what sex the parents are. I think there are parents both straight and gay who probably shouldn't be parents, but that doesn't have me out to get people's kids taken away or their rights to adopt revoked. I think all people deserve a chance at being parents, and let their children be taken away if they show they cannot handle them.

Oh definitely! I share the opinion that parenting and qualities are the most important part of the upbringing in a child, in all marriages like you said. Personally I think there is a small selection of qualities and processes of dealing with things that children just don't pick up in a single sex relationship, but each to their own opinion. Detrimental was probably not the correct word (carrying much stronger meaning than other words I could have chosen) to use and apologise for that, but as I just said, I think there is something that children miss out on when raised by a single sex, which may or may not effect how they grow up (I don't have a first-hand experience - partially due to my age - meaning I can't make a good judgement of any effect's extents). Ultimately it will be up to the child to fill in any holes and nurture their beliefs, but the upbringing is certainly an important factor in developing that. I also share the opinion that all people deserve to be parents (and most definitely should not be excluded from parenting rights), but I feel that homosexual couples need to be extra careful to prevent any gaps and holes in a child's development (particularly emotional and mental, and spiritual if you're one for that) that would not be evident when two genders are parental figures. But as I said in the previous post, it is ultimately up to the couple to decide what is best, if that may be not venturing into parenting, or may it be securing other figures for their child to look up to, among other obvious possibilities.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

I'm not exactly saying that people should mind their own business (but in a way I guess I am). I more am saying that the Bible is not really an appropriate text to use in argument unless a) both people have particularly good insight in the text b) both people actually agree with/care about/follow the text (i.e pointless a Christian using the Bible to prove an argument to someone without a religion). I think I get what you mean in the area of law, but I'll leave that alone because of my legal knowledge being so little. I think that each person has their own little set of laws and rules that they follow personally, which is where things like biblical texts come in and interact fine. When people think they must press their own laws and rules onto another person is when, I think, a dangerous mix happens. Now I know that you're more talking about the government law, but since (as I already said) I'm not well equipped for discussing government law, I've really got nothing else to say.



Oh definitely! I share the opinion that parenting and qualities are the most important part of the upbringing in a child, in all marriages like you said. Personally I think there is a small selection of qualities and processes of dealing with things that children just don't pick up in a single sex relationship, but each to their own opinion. Detrimental was probably not the correct word (carrying much stronger meaning than other words I could have chosen) to use and apologise for that, but as I just said, I think there is something that children miss out on when raised by a single sex, which may or may not effect how they grow up (I don't have a first-hand experience - partially due to my age - meaning I can't make a good judgement of any effect's extents). Ultimately it will be up to the child to fill in any holes and nurture their beliefs, but the upbringing is certainly an important factor in developing that. I also share the opinion that all people deserve to be parents (and most definitely should not be excluded from parenting rights), but I feel that homosexual couples need to be extra careful to prevent any gaps and holes in a child's development (particularly emotional and mental, and spiritual if you're one for that) that would not be evident when two genders are parental figures. But as I said in the previous post, it is ultimately up to the couple to decide what is best, if that may be not venturing into parenting, or may it be securing other figures for their child to look up to, among other obvious possibilities.

With the same sex parent and such, keep in mind that children (while they learn a lot from parents) also learn from other role models, such as couches and related. There hasn't been any concrete evidence that said a mother/father couple is the best ideal situation for a chile over same sex parents because I could make the argument that the worst people in the world came from heterosexual couples. I also wont say "homosexual couples need to be extra careful to prevent any gaps and holes in a child's development" but rather "parent"s should be careful. I dont know if you know about the westboro baptist church, if you dont, google it. These are some of the worst.

What we need to do is educate people to dispel these myths. Remember not too long ago people were saying the same things (kinda) about blacks. That ways just under 100 years ago.

 

[bbninjas]

With the same sex parent and such, keep in mind that children (while they learn a lot from parents) also learn from other role models, such as couches and related. There hasn't been any concrete evidence that said a mother/father couple is the best ideal situation for a chile over same sex parents because I could make the argument that the worst people in the world came from heterosexual couples. I also wont say "homosexual couples need to be extra careful to prevent any gaps and holes in a child's development" but rather "parent"s should be careful. I dont know if you know about the westboro baptist church, if you dont, google it. These are some of the worst.

What we need to do is educate people to dispel these myths. Remember not too long ago people were saying the same things (kinda) about blacks. That ways just under 100 years ago.

Of course children learn from other role models, but I dare say that the majority of children will learn the majority of their beliefs, qualities, though process, etc from their parents. I know that my parents have influenced the way I have thought and perceived things far, far greater than grandparents, pastors and teachers, with a select few friends influencing the way I think, but still certainly not as much as my parents. Fair enough - I don't really think there is concrete evidence for a lot of personal 'the best way to do this' situations, but I think you're sorta misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying children brought up by homosexual parents are bad, I'm more trying to voice my opinion that having same-sex parents can have consequences, whether they are desirable, undesirable or even important, I'm happy to let you decide and do not want you to pressure you into my opinions as such. Honestly there is not much to say to your point here, as once again it is my opinion that I've stated at least twice before now, and both you and SR have similar opinions on this specific matter. If Westboro Baptist is that church that actively discriminates gay people, then I disagree in you saying this is a direct result of parenting but is more combination of personal beliefs and pastoral push. Either way, I feel this church is a very poor and shameful description of what the broad church actually is, so please don't ever take it as the stereotype.

Try not to take this a racist/discriminat comment, but I feel that black and gay situations are different. I probably feel that way due to my biblical beliefs, but also how I just see them as no different to white. Gay people are no different to straight people (they're both people), but there are a few views that supporters of homosexuality have that I disagree with, and I that is really all I try to point out. Obviously I can't force people to change their mind. Somewhat related to the homosexual vs straight situation, I try my absolute hardest to not view and treat homosexuals differently than a straight person (once again, they're both people).

Anyway, don't expect any more response from me tonight cause personal reasons.

 

[crystal_pidgeot]

Of course children learn from other role models, but I dare say that the majority of children will learn the majority of their beliefs, qualities, though process, etc from their parents. I know that my parents have influenced the way I have thought and perceived things far, far greater than grandparents, pastors and teachers, with a select few friends influencing the way I think, but still certainly not as much as my parents. Fair enough - I don't really think there is concrete evidence for a lot of personal 'the best way to do this' situations, but I think you're sorta misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying children brought up by homosexual parents are bad, I'm more trying to voice my opinion that having same-sex parents can have consequences, whether they are desirable, undesirable or even important, I'm happy to let you decide and do not want you to pressure you into my opinions as such. Honestly there is not much to say to your point here, as once again it is my opinion that I've stated at least twice before now, and both you and SR have similar opinions on this specific matter. If Westboro Baptist is that church that actively discriminates gay people, then I disagree in you saying this is a direct result of parenting but is more combination of personal beliefs and pastoral push. Either way, I feel this church is a very poor and shameful description of what the broad church actually is, so please don't ever take it as the stereotype.

Try not to take this a racist/discriminat comment, but I feel that black and gay situations are different. I probably feel that way due to my biblical beliefs, but also how I just see them as no different to white. Gay people are no different to straight people (they're both people), but there are a few views that supporters of homosexuality have that I disagree with, and I that is really all I try to point out. Obviously I can't force people to change their mind. Somewhat related to the homosexual vs straight situation, I try my absolute hardest to not view and treat homosexuals differently than a straight person (once again, they're both people).

Anyway, don't expect any more response from me tonight cause personal reasons.

See, I feel America needs a mindset change. I don't know your beliefs 100% but I'm curious to what your views are on same sex marriage. Religion is one of my favorite things to talk about because I know a lot about it. Most of the discrimination I've faced and or seen was mostly, if not all related to religion. I made my comment because I wanted to show the damages of these beliefs. You were a child once and your parents instilled the beliefs you have now. The same thing is said for every living religious and non-religious person that has ever lived. The fact that children are being raised to "hate" is scary to me and goes against human progress, which is something I wholeheartedly care about. Keep in mind that all these bigoted views come from heterosexual couples. You wont get these things from a homosexual couple if they raised children.

Now I don't take offense to a lot of things so don't think you can't say anything you want to me (though keep it within Pokebeaches rules) but what I do take offense to are when peoples Civil and Human Rights are violated because of religious beliefs and then take offense and cry out "my religious rights are being violated"

go to 28 minutes in, or just watch the whole video. This just proves my points. Now I know people can hate but I rather hate for the right reason. I would hate someone if they wrong or hurt me or people I know and love. I don't hate based on race, gender, and other things and we simply don't see hate from secularist. I don't doubt that you may support gay rights but like I said before to another guy on a different website, that means nothing if you support a religion that has used the bible to kill and oppress those that were deemed "gay".

If a couple wants to raise children, let them. In America, there are also lots of single parents, which they still would be lacking on what your views of a family should be. People can raise children wrong and this applies to all gender groups.

 

[AllisonTheLatias]

No it's fine, considering what you're going through. But Transgendered people do fall under this too (I think). Was it you that said you were a straight male transitioning to a gay female? If so, then you are affected by this law change, because you as a lesbian are now allowed to marry another woman. Same the other way around. One thing though: I already knew what T stands for ^^

"Allowed to marry" translates to "Your marrage gets recorded on a price of paper but any discrimination that comes out is said recorded information is s*it you have to deal with because that discrimination is still very legal in many places here in the US". Also; I make up a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority, because many trans girls I know are very straight anyway, so it barely even matters to some of us. Also; "transgendered" isn't a word, it's like saying "I'm whited" or "I'm lesbianed"z

 

[Chaos Jackal]

Keep in mind that all these bigoted views come from heterosexual couples. You wont get these things from a homosexual couple if they raised children.

Unless the homosexual couple in question aren't humans, then I'm afraid you are mistaken. Just like a straight or religious parent will "teach you to hate" homosexuals and listening to Paradise Lost, a homosexual couple can similarly teach you to hate the majority of straight situations or discriminate more than they should against religion. The "special" condition of their marriage doesn't make them any less faulty than all humans are. Each side has things they follow, and similarly has things they are against. And through that, gay or straight, you will see hatred being taught.

The real problem for a child raised by a homosexual couple isn't what they'll be taught by their parents, that's more or less similar. You could argue that by having two men or two women as parents might affect the broadness of ideas you'll get in contact with, but I don't know about that. The real problem is the treatment of the children in question by their immediate environment. As many have said, making marriage between homosexuals legal isn't gonna make the discrimination of some disappear overnight. It's still a world where you may choose to insult someone by calling them gay. So what will the child face from its surroundings, about what his parents are and what he will become?

 

[steffenka]

"Allowed to marry" translates to "Your marrage gets recorded on a price of paper but any discrimination that comes out is said recorded information is s*it you have to deal with because that discrimination is still very legal in many places here in the US". Also; I make up a minority of a minority of a minority of a minority, because many trans girls I know are very straight anyway, so it barely even matters to some of us. Also; "transgendered" isn't a word, it's like saying "I'm whited" or "I'm lesbianed"z

If that's the case then I hope that "Allowed to marry" was just the beginning, and that something will be done towards discrimination against you, other transgender people, and lgbt people in general. Considering that I'm not from America, I have no clue how much discrimination that is happening across your nation. All I want to say, and have said previously, is that I'm glad gay people can be married and I hope that discrimination towards gay people will stop. (Sorry if I sound a bit passive aggressive)

 

[Celever]

See, I feel America needs a mindset change.

bbninjas is Australian

As for my thoughts on the topic, I'd have to say that I personally don't think that genders present is the way to look at parenting. While different outlooks surrounding children through their development is definitely healthy, allowing them to form their own opinions as opposed to feeling pressured into following their parents', I don't think that a male and a female will do any better job of this than two male or two female parents, and I think that this is generally what the argument about gay parenting comes down to. It's sort of ingrained in people that gays have similar interests, but this is just not the case. Sexuality really doesn't have a whole lot of bearing on your other interests in life. There are no "straight" interests, so I don't see why gays "all love musicals" etc..

As for gender-specific skills, maternal instinct, despite clearly being names after mothers, is present in everyone. Do any of you guys have a pet, like a dog or a cat? Does your pet have specific ways of communicating with you which sometimes other people don't get? Do you think about how your pet is doing when you're not around and you think that they might be in danger? Congratulations, you've now got maternal instinct! I'm not entirely sure what the point of the father is stereotypical in terms of child development, TBH.

Besides, the whole argument surrounding gay parenting falls apart when you think about all of the children who have had one of their parents die at a young age. More times than not these children will only grow up with one parent altogether, thus one gender. However, I have to say that I even have a few friends who have had one of their parents die when they were young and none have any issues really, especially none derived from only having the one sex when growing up.

 

[Ice Espeon]

When growing up, all people miss out on something, and as such everyone's experiences growing up are different. If you don't have a brother or an uncle you won't have as many male influences and likewise if you don't have a sister or an aunt. Your grandparents might not be around or you might have a huge family. At the moment, I don't think you can really have a discussion over whether it's a bad influence to not have a mixed couple as parents until a large amount of data can be collected for the happiness or performance of the child compared to their opposite-sex parented peers. Even then, it will be difficult to compare because of all the various factors that come into play in family life, such as divorce or death.

 

[AllisonTheLatias]

If that's the case then I hope that "Allowed to marry" was just the beginning, and that something will be done towards discrimination against you, other transgender people, and lgbt people in general. Considering that I'm not from America, I have no clue how much discrimination that is happening across your nation. All I want to say, and have said previously, is that I'm glad gay people can be married and I hope that discrimination towards gay people will stop. (Sorry if I sound a bit passive aggressive)

This is pretty much what's going on right now:

 

[Gruffling]

That level of discrimination law is actually insane, replace sexuality with race and see how many people agree with it, it's the same thing.

With regards to the T of GLBT, I think there's more ignorance than prejudice in a lot of cases, sadly nowhere near all. There's no difference between someone who transitioned to a gender than someone who is the gender they were born as. Apart from not being able to produce children but we don't consider someone who's infertile less of a man/woman.

 

[MegaBeedrill]

Discrimination will always be an issue no matter if you're straight or same sexed married. It does say something you could hide right on paper, but regardless people can identify your intentions by your actions at work or the like regardless. If your employee record is good, then any job will still hire you, and in a child's case for work or college, nobody will hold that against them since they didn't ask to be adopted.. as far as discrimination with other kids, well school is violently savage as it is nowadays anyway.. it's nothing new, and even the straight kids get bashed as homosexual at times. I know for certain from working with employer's, they would prefer a hard working homosexual over a straight guy that robs or threatens the company, which only happened about fifty times to our company, and our longest lasting employees would be the lesbian couple who spend more time doing their jobs than gossiping to others. What you do with your life doesn't affect us.

The only disadvantage I can see with being a LG couple, would be in the instance of adoption, in which, a foster home owner can discriminate the couple, and refuse to hand a child over. The child would also be able to discriminate the new parents and refuse to go with them, unless of course, new born not knowing better.

Also, I don't know why everybody is bringing up religion in this, it should be apparent from the first laws made for the US, that we have not only freedom of speech; the allowance to express ourselves, but also freedom of religion, in which if a LGB wish to oppose it or disbelieve in the anti-LGBT scriptures, they have every right to. I know my church has said specifically that they don't mind a homosexual coming into their church, just they will not have a wedding for them, however they don't need the church to get married, implying that religion is a non-factor to the whole thing. Religion is only affecting LGBT in a discrimination manner, which, as a Christian, I can assure you anybody religious claiming to hate on a stereotypical group, is no more than equally offending sinners as we're appost to love the sinner, hate the sin. I remember reading somebody upthread say something about us Christians teaching children to hate on gays, which is just bluntly false as a true Christian isn't even allowed to hate their worst enemy. If they do, they cannot claim themselves as true Christians.