TDK (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX / Kyurem)

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

The battle carnival thread in poke gym had links to various Japanese blogs so I advise you to just do a search in pokegym.

 

[Blah]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Guys, remember this thread is to discuss Plasma Box and/or ways to beat it, not Japanese blogs or other decks coming out in Plasma Freeze. If you feel a deck should be added, please say so in Tier discussion.

 

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

In another thread, the gyms that Plasma Box uses was discussed.

I would like to continue the discussion here.

Most builds I've seen use 2 Virbank City Gym since they incorporate 4 Hypnotoxic Lasers in their builds. Would you consider adding a third gym, Frozen City, if you have space or if you do not have space would you do a split of Virbank City Gym and Frozen City?

 

[Brave Vesperia]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

In another thread, the gyms that Plasma Box uses was discussed.

I would like to continue the discussion here.

Most builds I've seen use 2 Virbank City Gym since they incorporate 4 Hypnotoxic Lasers in their builds. Would you consider adding a third gym, Frozen City, if you have space or if you do not have space would you do a split of Virbank City Gym and Frozen City?

If I had the space, I would use 2 Virbank and 1 Frozen City. But to me, Frozen City is kind of a "my 60th card" thing.

What does everyone think the Energy lines will look like for this deck? I've seen lists using Basic Energies, lists using Special Energies and lists using Basic and Special Energies, but I prefer just Special Energies. I would use this:

4 Prism Energy
4 Blend Energy WLFM
4 Plasma Energy

EDIT: Forgot to include 2 DCE.

 

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

The energy list will depend on what pokemon you use in plasma box. For example if you have snorlax and lugia ex it might be better to incorporate DCE since they benefit from DCE. If you incorporate absol then it might be worth to add one blend GRPD. In the end it boils down to your personal taste.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

What does everyone think the Energy lines will look like for this deck? I've seen lists using Basic Energies, lists using Special Energies and lists using Basic and Special Energies, but I prefer just Special Energies. I would use this:

4 Prism Energy
4 Blend Energy WLFM
4 Plasma Energy

That's pretty close to my Energy line. I run Snorlax and Lugia, so instead of 1 of the Blends, I have 1 DCE, which has been working pretty well so far.

 

[SheNinja]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

How are 1-of Energies working? Does this deck just cycle through everything? How have you gotten the energies out of the deck and onto your Pokemon? Would you use this in a tournament? Would you recommend it?

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

How are 1-of Energies working? Does this deck just cycle through everything? How have you gotten the energies out of the deck and onto your Pokemon? Would you use this in a tournament? Would you recommend it?

Usually by the time you need to use Snorlax or Lugia, my single DCE is either in this discard, and you Raiden Knuckle it onto Snorlax or Lugia, or it's in your hand, because you deck is so thin by that point.

I would probably recommend someone to test it out, and I don't know if I'd use it in a tournament, since I've just started testing it.

 

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

How are 1-of Energies working? Does this deck just cycle through everything? How have you gotten the energies out of the deck and onto your Pokemon? Would you use this in a tournament? Would you recommend it?

1-of-energy works in big tournaments. There was a Winter Regionals winning Blastoise Keldeo list that had 1 DCE in it. The Top Cut has a video about this deck too.

 

[SheNinja]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Why would you play DCE in Keldeo/Blastoise? Why not more Water?

#moreofftopic

 

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Why would you play DCE in Keldeo/Blastoise? Why not more Water?

#moreofftopic

What can I say? He did win Regionals with 1 DCE list in his list. I don't think I'm in the position to question his build especially if he won with it right?

 

[SheNinja]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Every build has room for improvement.

#someonequotethat

 

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

But your original question was about if 1-of-energy works in a tournament environment so you got your example. As for optimizing his build I am in no position to answer that since it is not my build. For all we know that was the optimal build for the user during that day. It is a Regionals winning build and I'd rather have the deck builder defend it himself.
Lets get back on topic shall we?

 

[dmaster]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

At Winter Regionals, most of the Keldeo decks heavily incorporated Mewtwo so taking advantage of the DCE and Computer Search capability of it at the time was a big advantage. Now most of the builds are Black Kyurem based so obviously you have to take that into consideration that decks do change from format to format and at the time DCE was a good play for that metagame...

Anyway, this deck seems really fun to play. I'm very turned off of the heavy prices of both Thundurus and Deoxys (particularly Deoxys because that Ability is very strong). I love the toolbox nature of the decks. It's what I loved about the SP metagame. I've wanted to play around with the current Plasma cards but their support was very limited, so I love what this set brings to the table. At the same time, this deck does seem to have a little bit of problems with current decks like Black Kyurem/Keldeo and Darkrai (factoring in the 170 HP perfect math). Even decks like Klinklang, while favorable, are somewhat of a struggle. I'm not sure what I think about the overall matchups.

dmaster out.

 

[RobertBenjamin]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

The prices are slowly going down compared to what they were 2-3 weeks ago. Hopefully it goes down even more once the set gets released.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Is this going to be the deck that everyone (and by everyone, I mean ~everyone) is playing except for Klinklang?

Not me. But I'll be able to counter it...

I'd be surprise if many players continue to run KK going forward. Several decks can out-speed and/or easily include techs to counter it.

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How are 1-of Energies working? Does this deck just cycle through everything? How have you gotten the energies out of the deck and onto your Pokemon? Would you use this in a tournament? Would you recommend it?

1-of-energy works in big tournaments. There was a Winter Regionals winning Blastoise Keldeo list that had 1 DCE in it. The Top Cut has a video about this deck too.

From my experience, "1-of energy" is way too random and inconsistent to "depend upon." Dependency is the key, operative word here. Mathematically speaking, your chances of "drawing into it" (if it is not prized) are very small. It's not reliable enough to play in top competitive tournaments, IMHO if yur deck "requires" it. A 1-of energy implies to me that there is little or no dependency is required to win games.

If players are finding 1-of energy working in big tournaments, that may be due to a larger number of games being played (besides pure luck and having it available). If you were to consider just a top cut match in which you are only playing best of 2 out of 3, would you still want a 1-of energy dependency? Not me.

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

After the pre-release I attended today, I played someone who had a PlasmaBox deck already built (apparently he traded alot of stuff yesterday and today to complete the deck). We played about 8 games (I played my LMT/big basics and Darkrai-Sableye decks). Neither of my decks were updated with Plasma Freeze cards nor changed since States. Comments/thoughts:

• LMT (played only 3 games). Although I got ahead in prize count in 2 games, I was not able to counter the speed (i.e., energy attachment acceleration) of the PlasmaBox deck (3 Thundurus EX, 4 Deoxsys, 1 Snorlax, and 2 Lugia EX). I lost all 3 games, although 2 were quite close. Some card changes need to be made in order to make LMT more competitive in this matchup.
  
• Darkrai-Sableye (played 5 games). Of the 5 games, I won 4. Most importantly, there is a successful strategy (stumbled upon this during the 3rd game) one can use to defeat PlasmaBox. I recalled what a player said at the end of our top cut match at States: "this deck (Darkrai) is so good..." It truly still is.

 

[Machamp The Champion]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

• Darkrai-Sableye (played 5 games). Of the 5 games, I won 4. Most importantly, there is a successful strategy (stumbled upon this during the 3rd game) one can use to defeat PokéBeach. I recalled what a player said at the end of our top cut match at States: "this deck (Darkrai) is so good..." It truly still is.

Can you explain how one would go about "defeat PokéBeach?"

Those match ups seem pretty accurate, from what I've theorized in my head.

 

[miniman]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

Darkrai-Sableye (played 5 games). Of the 5 games, I won 4. Most importantly, there is a successful strategy (stumbled upon this during the 3rd game) one can use to defeat PokéBeach. I recalled what a player said at the end of our top cut match at States: "this deck (Darkrai) is so good..." It truly still is.

Speed Darkrai-Sableye or Hammers?

 

[TuxedoBlack]

RE: Plasma Box (Thundurus EX / Deoxys EX with attackers and techs)

• Darkrai-Sableye (played 5 games). Of the 5 games, I won 4. Most importantly, there is a successful strategy (stumbled upon this during the 3rd game) one can use to defeat PokéBeach. I recalled what a player said at the end of our top cut match at States: "this deck (Darkrai) is so good..." It truly still is.

Can you explain how one would go about "defeat PokéBeach?"

Those match ups seem pretty accurate, from what I've theorized in my head.

I had originally placed "P B" (without the spaces between the letters, to represent PlasmaBox deck) in my comment, but somehow it was interpreted and changed to "PokeBeach" - didn't realized this website's code would do such a thing.

As far as defeating PlasmaBox today, the key was playing multiple Enhanced Hammers in the same turn, targeting certain opponent's Poké.

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Darkrai-Sableye (played 5 games). Of the 5 games, I won 4. Most importantly, there is a successful strategy (stumbled upon this during the 3rd game) one can use to defeat PokéBeach. I recalled what a player said at the end of our top cut match at States: "this deck (Darkrai) is so good..." It truly still is.

Speed Darkrai-Sableye or Hammers?

Hammers.