The Battler Improvement Thread - 3rd round!

Equinox

Equinox

Stallwart Player
Member
Yes, I know Smogon has this thread, and yes, I know there are many elements that make people better battlers. One of the most, if not the most common ways of battling improvement is through RMT. With this RMT element, we can help our teams improve on trimming weakness, improve the deadliness of the team, and all that good stuff.

But...

But,what about misplays? what about prediction? Sure, you can just say "loljust swap to so and so," but what if there's an even easier Pokemon to switch to? And even then, what about the misplays we don't even know about? With the element of replaying our games, we can go more in depth with improving ourselves, and the ultimate goal as Pokemon Master (or peak as no. 1 on the ladder)! With this thread, we can improve upon our mistakes, and even make the bonds (corny, I know) with our team better, making our plays smoother. In this thread, post a replay of a battle (from Pokemon Showdown!) or a log from Pokemon Online (must be in a spoiler), and the community will, without flaming, list your misplays, and what you could do to fix them in your future battles!

With that, we need rules, unfortunately.

Rules:

1.) Only one battle at a time will be discussed, each will only be discussed for two or three days (will be changed if this is too little a time).

2.) This is serious discussion, so please, do not go off topic, just don't do it man!

3.) No flaming. Period.Your post will be deleted immediately.

4.) Take no offense to what people say about your battle, you submitted it to be discussed.

5.) P.M. all logs/replays, and I shall pick one that the community will discuss

7.) Have fun!

8.) Rule 6 was skipped :[

9.) If the battle you send in is on Pokemon Online, spoiler it in the P.M.

10.) Send the team as well.

Battler: [member]Chillarmy[/member]
(Thick Fog)
Replay/Log:
http://www.pokemonshowdown.com/replay/ou8100695

Team:
Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 HP / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Whirlwind

Landorus (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Psychic

Starmie @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Rapid Spin
- Recover

Celebi @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 SDef / 252 HP / 36 Spd
Gentle Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Leaf Storm
- U-turn
- Recover

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 224 SDef / 252 HP / 32 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Protect
- Body Slam
- Iron Head

Gyarados @ Chesto Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 204 Spd / 128 Atk / 176 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Rest
- Bounce
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread

This is a great idea. Once I get a decent log I'll be sure to PM you.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread

Alrighty, so the first battle we will be discussing is The Yoshi's battle log, and start! (My discussion post coming soon)
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread

Okay. Gonna spoiler tag this.

Turn 1:
Don't feel too upset about the Tricked Flame Orb. That set is rather rare on Reuniclus and is therefore difficult to see coming. It sucks that your Mence got burnt though.

Turn 2:
Okay. I expected the Mamoswine switch, so I probably would've switched to Rotom-W. But I don't know how good your prediction skills are, and I can kinda understand the idea behind foddering Salamence.

Turn 3:
Really could've switched to Rotom-W here. Mence's death does put more stress on Latios in regards to Breloom, but its understandable since it's burnt.

Turn 4:
Whoo hoo you scared out the Mamoswine! A burn on Rotom-W is nice too.

Turn 5:
Haha, nice prediction here with Jolteon. You picked up some momentum here.

Turns 6-8:
I'm assuming your Jolteon doesn't have Volt Switch, because a neutral STAB Volt Switch would do more than a neutral Signal Beam. I suppose that your Jolteon might be Specs and you didn't want to lock yourself into Volt Switch if Donphan / Mamoswine came in.

Turn 9:
Nice job switching to Rotom-W.

Turn 10:
Yes, you burnt his Ferrothorn!

Turn 11:
Okay. Deo-D is a nice switch in to Ferro if you have Taunt on it.

Turn 12:
Would've been better to Taunt on the first turn, saving yourself from having to deal with a layer of hazards.

Turn 13:
See above

Turn 14:
Alrighty, more hazards

Turn 15:
Good move here too. I have no idea what his set is though. Maybe Trick / Calm Mind / Psychic / Focus Blast?

Turn 16:
more hazards!

Turn 17:
Uh oh, here comes Donphan to spin away your hazards. In hindsight, it might not've been a good idea to set up hazards with Donphan still in commission. But at least you'll get some damage on the recovery-less Donphan. But its alright. Not everyone battles perfect.

Turn 18:
Nice work here too with scaring the Donphan out. Keeps those hazards up longer.

Turns 19-21:
Protect hates you and your children. Not a whole lot you can do about that.

Turn 22:
Wow that Power Whip did a lot. What kind of Rotom-W are you running?

Turns 23-27:
Would really have been a good idea to hard switch out, instead of using Volt Switch. Without Rotom-W, you're much more open to his Mamoswine. Due to Leech Seed, he was stalling you out. Does your Salamence have Fire Blast? If it doesn't, I'd consider putting Fire Blast on it because otherwise your team is very weak to Ferrothorn. Not a whole lot you could've done about Jolteon though. :/

Turn 28:
Why didn't you use U-Turn? It hits for neutral damage.

Turn 29:
Could've brought in Latios before with U-Turn, scaring out Ferro with a possible HP Fire.

Turn 30:
Yay Ferro is dead!

Turn 31:
Alrighty, Scizor's here. Nice.

Turn 32:
Obvious U-Turn is obvious.

Turn 33:
haha, that was hilarious with the double trick. Too bad it didn't really help you though. :/

Turn 34:
Cool, Mamo is down and your Latios just gained a fair bit of breathing room.

Turn 35:
That was brilliant with tricking him the Choice Band. Great play!

Turn 36:
Obvious U-Turn. Too bad it didn't kill but i guess that happens when you aren't Banded anymore.

Turn 37:
That Latios is really making a comeback for you ^.^

Turn 38:
Those hazards lasted a long time, and Latios loved having them up.

Turn 39:
Could've switched to Latios here to scare out Donphan, but the Stealth Rock wasn't totally obvious so its okay.

Turn 40:
Hey, I guess Latios came in after all!

Turn 41:
bye bye Donphan

Turn 42:
Nice work here. Having Latios asleep would've cost you the game.

Turn 43:
and Latios finishes off Breloom for the victory.

Just a few comments for you:
- Consider switching to a MixedDD Salamence with Fire Blast if it isn't one already. Even if Latios has HP Fire, having more ways to beat Ferrothorn is very helpful since your team struggles with it.
- Its not always a good idea to set up so many hazards if they have a spinner still around. Stealth Rock is exempt from this because it only takes one turn to set up. But going for three layers of Spikes can result in a few turns wasted when they take one turn to spin them away. It's not a good tradeoff.
- What's your Jolteon set? Is it Specs?
- Don't always feel like hard switches are inferior to Volt Switch switches. Leaving your Rotom-W in on Ferrothorn as it sapped your health was probably your biggest misplay of the match.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread

The foe's Donphan used Roar!
Pointed stones dug into Latios!
Latios was dragged out!
Click to expand...

Seems backwards...

Anyway, I like this idea, but I think teams should also be posted. Maybe EVs aren't necessary, but knowing the items and attacks would help. It's really hard for me to say "You should have done ___ instead of ___." becaue I don't know how his team is set up, or what moves his team knows.

Aside from that, the mistakes I noticed were:
Leaving Salamence active when Mamoswine was brought out instead of switching (I would have brought out Rotom-W).
Leaving Rotom-W out and using Volt Switch instead of just normal switching against Ferrothorn.
Setting up Spikes while his Donphan was still alive.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

Thanks for choosing my log, Equinox. Let me take some time to respond to the helpful comments of the match. I'm not a very good battler but let me see if I can back up some of my points. BTW @KoN PO sucks for a reason. I never even noticed that though lol.

Bippa said:
Just a few comments for you:
- Consider switching to a MixedDD Salamence with Fire Blast if it isn't one already. Even if Latios has HP Fire, having more ways to beat Ferrothorn is very helpful since your team struggles with it.
- Its not always a good idea to set up so many hazards if they have a spinner still around. Stealth Rock is exempt from this because it only takes one turn to set up. But going for three layers of Spikes can result in a few turns wasted when they take one turn to spin them away. It's not a good tradeoff.
- What's your Jolteon set? Is it Specs?
- Don't always feel like hard switches are inferior to Volt Switch switches. Leaving your Rotom-W in on Ferrothorn as it sapped your health was probably your biggest misplay of the match.
Click to expand...

-Salamence is already Mixed DD with Fire Blast. Were you going to suggest something different? I'm open to it.
-Jolteon is Specs; Thunderbolt/Volt Switch/Signal Beam/HP Ice.
-Okay, I will remember that in the future. I actually forgot Donphan learned Rapid Spin, so I played a little recklessly, but in the future I will remember.
-I will take the advice about Volt Switch. My biggest fear was using Volt Switch when his Donphan would come in, and then Donphan gets a free Rapid Spin. But I probably should have had some more confidence and should have stopped overthinking it. Sometimes I think my opponents are prediction geniuses, and I out think myself.

I read the rest of your comments on the log, and I agree Flame Orb Reuniclus is pretty rare. Other than that I feel pretty stupid for leaving in Rotom-W on Ferro, and also leaving Salamence as fodder against Mamo.

Keeper of Night said:
Aside from that, the mistakes I noticed were:
Leaving Salamence active when Mamoswine was brought out instead of switching (I would have brought out Rotom-W).
Leaving Rotom-W out and using Volt Switch instead of just normal switching against Ferrothorn.
Setting up Spikes while his Donphan was still alive.
Click to expand...

Again I agree with many of these mistakes. I forgot Donphan had Rapid Spin so that was stupid of me lol. Thanks. ;D

Also my team export is in the spoiler below, if anyone needs it.

Deoxys (Deoxys-D) @ Rocky Helmet
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Night Shade

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Trick

Jolteon (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Signal Beam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 252 SAtk / 144 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Salamence (F) @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast

Scizor (F) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Thanks again everyone! ;D

Edit: On Turn 11, I thought it was better to hard switch because I thought Volt Switch caused damage from Iron Barbs. I'm still not sure if it takes Iron Barbs damage, but nonetheless it's over now.

And also thanks to everyone for being so nice about the match. I know I played stupidly in the beginning but I picked it up in the end which hopefully made up for it.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

As everybody mentioned, it is not too good to set 3 layers of spikes knowing that he has a spinner alive and that you have no Spinblocker, but in this case it wasn't even that bad because Donphan can safely spin against a Scizor locked into Bullet Punch or if Jolteon is locked into an electric move, so you had a good chance to prevent him from spinning. Just be sure that you can beat the spinner before he spins away.

The thing that I didn't understand at all was that you stayed in with Rotom against Ferrothorn. Latios is a pretty safe switch in, Scizor is as well and you had volt Switch to scout or simply a normal switch when he tries to protect. You let Rotom die for nothing and it could've been useful against the mentioned Donphan and against Mamoswine. Did you had some kind of masterplan which I cannot see or didn't you want rotom to be alive so that he has something he can set up on with Breloom?

Also Turn 11 confused me, why didn't you go for the Volt Switch?

When it was Deo-D against Ferro I can see why you didn't Taunt the first turn. Nobody uses Spikes against Deo-D but in those situations it is safe play > thinking. I'd really like to know the rest of Deoxys-Ds Moves, an short Info about the team would be useful.

Now what I really like is how you played that in the end with Latios. It was a nice Comeback, which probably wouldn't be possible if he didn't switch Mamoswine into Latios, I am not sure what he was thinking in that situation. Switching Scizor in Loom saved you the game. In the beginning you did some weird turns I don't understand but in the end it was ok, just make sure to not sacrifie your Pokemon that carelessly.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

Its really hard to comment on a performance by suggesting prediction based moves, so I won't do that. What I will talk about is your overall strategy and play through out the game, starting on turn 1!

Your team: Deoxys-D / Latios / Jolteon / Rotom-W / Salamence / Scizor
Opponent's team: Ferrothorn / Rotom-W / Reuniclus / Donphan / Mamoswine / Breloom

On the very first turn, its hard to give criticism on you not expecting Flame Orb (I certainly wouldn't!) but I cannot fathom why you would use Dragon Dance in this situation, on the very first turn. First of all, we weren't expecting Flame Orb but Renny is far to dangerous to use as setup fodder considering the LO Trick Room set nearly ohkos with Psychic or the Bold Calm Mind variation surviving a Naughty +1 Outrage 75% of the time and able to 2hko easily with Psychic. He also has Mamoswine that would almost always have Ice Shard or even Donphan could have Ice Shard stopping your sweep early, I have to ask what was the overall idea with the move? You would have never accomplished a sweep and you would have at best only taken down his Renny and I think any battler would gladly trade a dangerous dragon type for Reuniclus.

Your starter should have been Deoxys-D because it has a favorable match up against his entire team and can set up spikes on virtually all its members. About the overall strategy of the game, I would almost suggest you are at a slight disadvantage. You have two dragons but he has Nattorei, Donphan, and Mamoswine as coverage against them and you have your two electric types to gain advantage but he has the aforementioned Pokemon to break up this. The strategy from the beginning should have been laying down hazards to soften up his team for your main attacking Pokemon despite him having Donphan because Donphan is easy to wear down and you had enough Pokemon to threaten it so it doesn't really get a chance to spin. I get the feeling that you didn't have any long term plan and you just made one turn moves at the start of the game.

From the second turn, you again, use Dragon Dance which, again, is an incorrect move given his team. You should have at least attempted to get damage on his team since Salamence is just dead weight but its still capable of doing damage. The correct move here is Fire Blast not because I'm seeing him switch in Mamoswine but because he has three weaknesses to Fire and only one resist. And you would be quicker then that one resist on every occasion because of Dragon Dance so you could switch to Outrage if necessary.

You did good with the whole Rotom-W / Jolteon vs. Rotom-W situation. Forced into using Signal Beam is sad but its what you needed to do. But what I don't understand is Rotom-W vs. Nattorei. You lead off with Hydro Pump with is fine but I don't know why you didn't Volt Switch out of play to go to Scizor. Rotom-W still had functionality against his team since Donphan and Mamoswine were still alive and its your best and safest switch but you let it die... Which come into play almost immediately since he sends out Mamoswine and your forced to give up Jolteon. Your endgame play was stronger then your start though, which is why you were able to give yourself a chance to win. I'm not sure if you did it on purpose or if you knew, but Draco Meteor was the correct move over Hidden Power (Fire right?) because HP Fire only has a 31% chance to OHKO while Draco Meteor does 90% of the time.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

Well, pretty much everything has been said, so I'll just echo a couple things.

- Setting up DD on a Reuniclus wasn't exactly the best option for Salamence, especially with a Mamoswine lurking. Instead of just setting up on Turn 1 with Mence (and getting tricked a Flame orb o_0), I would've made it a priority to set up Spikes and predict Donphan to switch in and force it out repeatedly with your Rotom. Deoxys-D has enough bulk to set up entry hazards more than once, and Dohphan is easy to wear down.
- I'm not quite sure what your win condition was here. I personally would've made it to take out Mamoswine to open up sweeping potential for both Latios and Salamence. If you could explain what your win condition was that would clear things up :p
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

Most of my mistakes were just me playing stupid and not thinking about the future turns. I agree using DD was stupid, and once again I forget things sometimes, such as Fire Blast being special, not physical. My prediction skills are not the best because I often over think things, but I can see some things coming. I didn't know for example that Draco Meteor was stronger than HP Fire (sometimes I use moves just because they hit for weakness). In my opinion my biggest mistakes sometimes are foddering Pokemon because I am sometimes unaware of safe switching. Also leaving in Rotom-W on Ferrothorn was stupid, I admit. ;D My win condition BTW was to get rid of Breloom since I have bad experiences with Breloom, and get rid of Mamoswine using Scizor (that didn't work out how I planned though), then sweep with Scarfed Latios.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

I feel like your win condition is on the right track, but instead of Latios I would've used Salamence as my main sweeper because instead of needing to get rid of both Ferrothorn and Mamoswine you'd just need to rid yourself of Mamo, and with Scizor that shouldn't have been terribly hard :p Breloom really doesn't threaten your team at all tbh, with Hazards, two dragon types, and Scizors Bullet Punch in a pinch.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread Round 1

Sorry guys, I'm going to be away until the 17th due to personal issues, until than, PM TPO3 for logs and stuff.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

Here is a DPP OU match for some of you older battlers out there. User [member]Momentum[/member] could use some help figuring out where he/she went wrong.

http://pastebin.com/Lg08mk9x

Here is the team
Gliscor (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Veil
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Technician
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Pursuit

Jolteon (F) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Baton Pass
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball

Froslass (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Snow Cloak
EVs: 240 HP / 92 SDef / 176 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Spikes
- Shadow Ball
- Taunt
- Pain Split

Infernape (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- ThunderPunch

Poliwrath (M) @ Choice Specs
Trait: Water Absorb
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SAtk / 16 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hydro Pump
- Focus Blast
- Vacuum Wave
- Ice Beam

Rules are at the top of the thread. All help is appreciated! I know this isn't a Black/White match, but I haven't received any other submissions, so have at it!
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

Has there been any more submissions? I don't think anyone;s interested in DPP OU anymore :p
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

Chillarmy said:
Has there been any more submissions? I don't think anyone;s interested in DPP OU anymore :p
Click to expand...

That is so sad...
I was really hoping to get some help on this one, because I simply cannot see where I failed to win, but I guess most of you are simply not used to DP or didn't play it for a long time. It makes me feel kinda sad because the best gen is dying :(
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

I feel that layer of Spikes was simply the deciding factor between you winning and losing. I assume you kept Infernape in on Rotom-W because it would die to hazards coming back in and you didn't want to risk Jolteon (your last hope) taking a hit with what few health it had. Obviously you did all that you could on those final turns due to the pressure hazards brought. This leads me back to my main point: that extra layer of hazards made all the difference. I think that you should've immediately used Taunt on Roserade when you switched in Froslass. You would've got up all your layers of Spikes while still limiting him to just Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes.

Another issue was the amount of choice users you have. That certainly didn't make the hazards issue any better. :p

I like this battle. It's a great example of the pressure hazards can bring even in the most simplest of ways.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

DPP OU is still an awesome gen to play competitively. I'll give you a few tips where I can:

- Firstly and most importantly, I notice your team is running an awful lot of Choice Sets. Specs Jolteon and Banded Scizor I can see the logic in, but ScarfNape and specially-based Poliwrath is where I start to see some problems. Infernape's strength is in it's flexibility, especially in 4th gen, so having it as a lead or mixed attacker might get you better results, and it can't perform as well with so many other choiced Pokemon on the team. Near the end, your Infernape and Jolteon were being forced to switch out a lot, and the hazards damage and lack of momentum you had cost you the game, in my opinion. Or it could have just been that lucky Sleep Talk Rotom-W at the end. :P

- Your Poliwrath has an interesting set. How well has it performed in other games? It seemed to do okay in this battle, but there are better users of choice specs out there, especially water-types, and your other team members like Jolteon and Infernape already do it's job better. It has bulk, sure, but it really can't take repeated hits reliably, and it hits much harder from the physical spectrum.

- Your prediction was pretty good throughout the entire game, but again, not having so many choice users would make it a lot easier on you.

Don't get me wrong, it was an excellent and a very close game, but the extra damage his hazards did along with so many switches on your part really sealed the deal. Hope I could be of some help.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

Fun fact: Timid Starmie's Life Orb Hydro Pump does about as much damage as Modest Poliwrath's Specs Hydro Pump.
 
RE: The Battler Improvement Thread - 2nd match is up!

I am back now, so feel free to send in applications, also, I'm disappointed in the activity!
 
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