The best strategies/techs against ReshiPhlosion. Let's figure this out.
- Thread starter Rikko145
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Celebi23 said:
Once again, this is incorrect. Japan is in the same format as us, HGSS~. This was proven in Esa's Eye on Japan article (Check 6 prizes or her blog 'The Deck Out').
Okay, as far as Lanturn vs. Zoroark vs. Samurott vs. Etc. goes, if the point is to take out their Typhlosions, why not use Basculin? (Supposing you either run {W} Energy or Rainbow Energy.) It's pretty much a kamikaze charge for the Basculin, but on the other hand, it's a lot like a snipe. You're taking out something that will cripple them for the remainder of the game, and they're taking out something that you left for dead. And if it somehow survives (I mean, I'm talking in the of 10% chance it has of surviving another turn, between the flips and the 80 HP) it can be used again.
The flips for the 80 to itself don't really matter, seeing as how it's a one in four chance that you'll hit double tails. It also attacks for the same energy as Lanturn, but doesn't require an evolution. For the 1-1 Lanturn you would put in, why not substitute 2 Basculin and 2 Rainbow and/or {W} Energy? You're going to end up trading 2 for 2 in prizes this way, where it would of only been 1-1 with Lanturn, but the after-effects are what you're shooting for.
It should play like this:
T1.You attack with normal strategy and/or stall for a turn to power up Basculin.
T2. Attach other energy to Basculin and kill a Typhlosion.
T3. Use normal strategy again and/or stall for another turn to power up Basculin.
T4. Attach another energy to that Basculin and take out their other Typhlosion.
(By the way, when I say T#, I mean it can be that turn of the strategy, of the game, when you get the resources, etc.)
Now, I know some people will say, "But you're trying to get out two basics and get three total energies on it, plus two Catchers!" Ok. Isn't that what they're trying to do too? They're also trying to set up some Stage 2's. And with Junk Arms, Communications, Catchers, Dual Balls and/or Collector, PONT, Juniper, and other staples that should already be in your deck in good count, it should not prove too difficult.
Now, as far as other matchups go, they can still function for very convenient and relatively cheap 80 damage snipes. Say time is called and you need a prize. You'll have two turns to get it, yes? At what point in time is there absolutely nothing on the field with 80 HP left? Maybe you notice that your opponent cannot seem to draw any setup cards. Wouldn't straight 80 for a few turns be useful while you get a head-start on your setup? Or perhaps you have one of those decks where you usually end up in a 2HKO prize exchange (Donphan, Kingdra, etc.). You take a prize with Basculin, they kill Basculin, and you get the first shot at their new attacker, putting you ahead in the prize race. And who could forget Donphan? They send up a Donphan, thinking they'll have some time to set up, so they don't really rush too much. You OHKO a Donphan (even if they have a Defender), and you just caught them with their pants around their ankles, so to speak.
In conclusion, I just thought Basculin should have its name put in the ring. I hadn't even thought about it until this thread, but after much recent testing, I believe it is a fantastic play. And, in my own respective opinion, do find it to be more functional that Lanturn.
The flips for the 80 to itself don't really matter, seeing as how it's a one in four chance that you'll hit double tails. It also attacks for the same energy as Lanturn, but doesn't require an evolution. For the 1-1 Lanturn you would put in, why not substitute 2 Basculin and 2 Rainbow and/or {W} Energy? You're going to end up trading 2 for 2 in prizes this way, where it would of only been 1-1 with Lanturn, but the after-effects are what you're shooting for.
It should play like this:
T1.You attack with normal strategy and/or stall for a turn to power up Basculin.
T2. Attach other energy to Basculin and kill a Typhlosion.
T3. Use normal strategy again and/or stall for another turn to power up Basculin.
T4. Attach another energy to that Basculin and take out their other Typhlosion.
(By the way, when I say T#, I mean it can be that turn of the strategy, of the game, when you get the resources, etc.)
Now, I know some people will say, "But you're trying to get out two basics and get three total energies on it, plus two Catchers!" Ok. Isn't that what they're trying to do too? They're also trying to set up some Stage 2's. And with Junk Arms, Communications, Catchers, Dual Balls and/or Collector, PONT, Juniper, and other staples that should already be in your deck in good count, it should not prove too difficult.
Now, as far as other matchups go, they can still function for very convenient and relatively cheap 80 damage snipes. Say time is called and you need a prize. You'll have two turns to get it, yes? At what point in time is there absolutely nothing on the field with 80 HP left? Maybe you notice that your opponent cannot seem to draw any setup cards. Wouldn't straight 80 for a few turns be useful while you get a head-start on your setup? Or perhaps you have one of those decks where you usually end up in a 2HKO prize exchange (Donphan, Kingdra, etc.). You take a prize with Basculin, they kill Basculin, and you get the first shot at their new attacker, putting you ahead in the prize race. And who could forget Donphan? They send up a Donphan, thinking they'll have some time to set up, so they don't really rush too much. You OHKO a Donphan (even if they have a Defender), and you just caught them with their pants around their ankles, so to speak.
In conclusion, I just thought Basculin should have its name put in the ring. I hadn't even thought about it until this thread, but after much recent testing, I believe it is a fantastic play. And, in my own respective opinion, do find it to be more functional that Lanturn.
Alright, my bad. Although I'm 100% sure they at least play a few of their tournaments in BW-on considering I talked to a guy from Japan at worlds who was talking about a tournament he played recently in the BW-on format.Blue_Horizon said:
What do you mean by "once again" though?
Blue_Horizon said:
Thanks for mentioning my blog but really "her"... You need to get your facts straight as well xD My name may sound weird when it's pronounced in English but it's pronounced differently in Finnish.
- Esa
Eh? Esa Juntunen is a boy, not a girlBlue_Horizon said:
(I'm Finnish and proud of this guy.)Myself I think that only fast decks and smart players can counter ReshiPhlosion, because after all ReshiPhlosion is indeed most played deck. Myself I used Zoroark+Special Dark against Reshirams, but it's ok. The best way to counter ReshiPhlosion is taking down Typhlosions and use Catchers only for them and best way to take them of when they are not evolved yet (with anything STRONG) because without them, the deck is very slow.
I played with my friend ReshiPhlosion VS Basculin-stuff thing and indeed yes. The friend loose over 2 prizes because of kamikaze attacks and not having Rescue, because in his ReshiPhlosion I played I had Lost Removers and send them off from him and I still had ones, so many times I had Reshiram in play and about 2 to 3 Typhlosions in bench. I think using fishes is unsure, because someone need to be very lucky with flips. Victini may possible help, but who knows doesn't it then help anyone to get third tails.
badganondorf said:
Oh god, not sure what I was thinking. I always knew you were a guy (despite your name in English), but for some reason it slipped my mind. Sorry about that!
Aaaaaaaaaaanyway...
If it was BW-On Celebi, they'd be running Reshiboar probably, not Reshiplosion. Still a good deck imo, but the way you fight it might change. For example, pluspower is a must for Zekrom and Pokemon Catcher becomes a royal pain in the ass for Emboar.
I don't see why there's hate exactly for Vanliuxe. When you get right down to it, it's about as slow as Gothetelle, Magneboar, and Blastgatr (though only the first is tier one atm). Set up Plume early, stall with a Cleffa or two, run FSL if you really need to get Vanilettes. The fact the attack is a two drop is annoying, however. I might say run two of that Vaniluxe with the one from the Hail Blizzard expansion. It's attack for WCC does 60 and 10 more for each energy in the opponent's retreat cost. That's a OHKO on Reshiram. It also means you can run DCE, allowing you to retreat Plume. Now, due to the deck's slow speed and otherwise so so matchups across the board (though Donphan might get beat pretty bad if the deck gets online as well), I'm calling this to be a tier 2, maybe high tier 3 deck. If your area is like mine where you're chalk full of Reshiram variants than yeah, give it a try. It's an interesting deck, kinda rouge. Just keep your twins count high, and don't be surprised if faster decks like ZPST or Donphan give this deck an occasional whooping.
If it was BW-On Celebi, they'd be running Reshiboar probably, not Reshiplosion. Still a good deck imo, but the way you fight it might change. For example, pluspower is a must for Zekrom and Pokemon Catcher becomes a royal pain in the ass for Emboar.
I don't see why there's hate exactly for Vanliuxe. When you get right down to it, it's about as slow as Gothetelle, Magneboar, and Blastgatr (though only the first is tier one atm). Set up Plume early, stall with a Cleffa or two, run FSL if you really need to get Vanilettes. The fact the attack is a two drop is annoying, however. I might say run two of that Vaniluxe with the one from the Hail Blizzard expansion. It's attack for WCC does 60 and 10 more for each energy in the opponent's retreat cost. That's a OHKO on Reshiram. It also means you can run DCE, allowing you to retreat Plume. Now, due to the deck's slow speed and otherwise so so matchups across the board (though Donphan might get beat pretty bad if the deck gets online as well), I'm calling this to be a tier 2, maybe high tier 3 deck. If your area is like mine where you're chalk full of Reshiram variants than yeah, give it a try. It's an interesting deck, kinda rouge. Just keep your twins count high, and don't be surprised if faster decks like ZPST or Donphan give this deck an occasional whooping.
I think that's where the hate came from lol. All three of those decks are ridiculously slow. But Gothitelle can deny prizes and Magneboar is incredibly powerful and has RDL for huge comebacks. What can Vaniluxe do? Flip well? Furthermore, how do you plan to setup multiple Vaniluxe? You'll generally need 3-4 over the course of a game and you can't play Rare Candy or Pokemon Communication. 30+3 is this deck's possibly worst enemy. And if it ever did get popular, people would tech Unown Cure for cheap KOs on your hard-to-setup stage 2's.Magnevire said:
If I had to play it, I would probably cut Victini (but probably leave 1 copy in) and play it alongside Vileplume and Reuniclus.
And according to multiple sources, including http://google.com/ and Thetopcut, they do run Reshiboar over in Japan. But I'll admit that my knowledge of their format is limited.