The Cleffa VS Manaphy debate.

Cleffa or Manaphy?

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Brave Vesperia

Brave Vesperia

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The question is simple, do you play with Cleffa HGSS or CoL, or Manaphy UL for hand refresh? I currently play with Cleffa, because it does not require an energy for it's attack, and I get 6 cards instead of 5, also it has the Sweet Sleeping Face Poke-body, which is good. I would test with Manaphy, but I don't have any. While Cleffa is prone to donks and Catcher knockouts, Manaphy has 30 more HP, though it gets one less card, requires an energy and doesn't have the Sweet Sleeping Face Poke-body. When you post in this thread please post which one you use (if any) and why.

http://pokebeach.com/scans/call-of-legends/24-cleffa.jpg

http://pokebeach.com/scans/unleashed/3-manaphy.jpg
 
Most decks don't have Pokemon with free retreat. In those decks, Cleffa is better so you can get T1 hand refresh. Otherwise, in decks with Yanmega or other free retreaters, Manaphys better.
 
I prefer manaphy, sure you use an energy and get 1 less card. But Manaphy is a bit more difficult to donk then Cleffa is.
 
Depends on the deck, like glaceon said. I run one of each or none at all. A heavy hand refresh line is the same as using a starter, except you can't donk T/S/S.
 
I use Manaphy if either because I hate my luck and will never depend on it in a pinch. Also, sweet sleeping face aside, Cleffa gives almost every opponent a prize. Even if you get lucky with the sleep, Yanmega, Crobat, Kingdra etc. all snipe it and kill it. Sometimes I don't even run a starter and just use a reliable I/S engine along with maybe Ninetales/Magnezone.
 
Personally, a 1/1/1 of Manaphy, Tyrogue and cleffa is the way to go. Cleffa in case they can't donk, Manaphy if they can. Tyrogue needs no explanation, but yeah 1 of each works really nicely.
 
Manaphy has 30 more HP than Cleffa, not 20.... For me, it depends on the deck, but Manaphy is pretty underrated. It is a shame that it needs an energy and gets 1 less card, but a lot of people seem to forget that it does indeed have free retreat. It isn't sniped by Yanmega as easily, and you don't kill it as much with Earthquakes if you are using Donphan. The sleeping on Cleffa also tends to irritate me more than help me, and I honestly just don't like Cleffa as much, though I admit some decks can't afford that energy on Manaphy.
 
How about neither because they are both terrible. ~ Pillffft.

I personally would never play either, but I think Cleffa is better, because it can wall, has a free retreat and doesn't hog energy.
 
Personally, I think Cleffa over Manaphy. Yes, Manaphy is good in that it has higher HP than Cleffa, so it doesn't get KOd as easily by Tyrogue or Yanmega compared to Cleffa, but the big reason why you run Cleffa over Manaphy is all thanks to the fact Manaphy needs one energy as opposed to none in order to hand refresh. This makes the disadvantage pretty bad in situations where you may desperately need to refresh your hand, in that you can only attach one energy per turn. One turn, you have to attach an energy on your active (assuming it has 1 retreat cost), and then the next turn, you need to attach another energy, this time to Manaphy, and then you can refresh the hand. The only easy way around this is Switch, but you have to be pretty lucky to have it in your hand. In the end, this means it takes two turns to set up compared to Cleffa, in which because Cleffa has 0 attack cost, you can simply attach an energy to the active, retreat, and voila, all set, and it's all complete after 1 turn. This makes Cleffa slightly more reliable when needed, therefore making it the better card.
 
It depends on the deck. Decks that don't run a lot of energy will use Cleffa, and vice versa. And in Magnezone variants, that extra energy on Manaphy can mean an extra 50 damage late-game.
 
I've been trying to get Manaphys so I can test with them instead of Cleffa, but no one has any for trade. :( (also I can't print Proxies because my printer won't work with the computer I'm using)
 
Truthfully, it depends on the deck. In my Gothitelle deck, when I was having trouble getting set up, I ran Cleffa because every energy drop was incredibly important. Same thing in Yanmega/Magnezone. If you left an energy on a Manaphy for too long, the opponent could snipe it with Linear Attack + 2 Kingdra Powers. However, in a deck like Reshiram/Typhlosion, I ran Manaphy. that way, if Manaphy was knocked out, there's an energy in the discard that can be attached to Reshiram by means of Afterburner.

And I don't find much of a substantial difference between drawing 5 cards and drawing 6 cards.
 
@the aura is with me8, just use a backward card and pretend it's a Manaphy. And it's not too different from Cleffa, you could just use Cleffa as though it were a Manaphy when testing.
 
the aura is with me8 said:
I've been trying to get Manaphys so I can test with them instead of Cleffa, but no one has any for trade. :( (also I can't print Proxies because my printer won't work with the computer I'm using)
Click to expand...

If you're using sleeves, place an energy in it instead. Take a piece of paper and write out all the important info on it, such as 'Manaphy', '60 hp', '0 retreat' and 'weakness x2 lightning'. Then that works just as fine. Thats how I do my proxying.
 
Depends on the deck. Don't play Cleffa in a deck focused on Donphan, for instance. Or just play one of each if you need to. Sometimes you'll want to pick neither and play Pichu.
 
Project696 said:
If you're using sleeves, place an energy in it instead. Take a piece of paper and write out all the important info on it, such as 'Manaphy', '60 hp', '0 retreat' and 'weakness x2 lightning'. Then that works just as fine. Thats how I do my proxying.
Click to expand...

I'd just write on a peice of paper "Manaphy" and that'd be my proxy...

Tyraniking said:
Depends on the deck. Don't play Cleffa in a deck focused on Donphan, for instance. Or just play one of each if you need to. Sometimes you'll want to pick neither and play Pichu.
Click to expand...

I don't see why you'd do this. Some type of non-supporter hand refresher is needed in every deck. Even in google' Deck, I'd run a Cleffa. He could easily get a hand of bad cards, or unneeded ones, as he runs 27ish Pokemon.

Donphan is the main deck where you shoudln't run Cleffa, though I play 1/1 in my Stage 1s.
 
Tyraniking said:
Depends on the deck. Don't play Cleffa in a deck focused on Donphan, for instance. Or just play one of each if you need to. Sometimes you'll want to pick neither and play Pichu.
Click to expand...

^^ This exactly.

I'm leaning towards manaphy now because you can't get tyrouge donked, but I play cleffa.
 
Meaty said:
Manaphy has 30 more HP than Cleffa, not 20.... For me, it depends on the deck, but Manaphy is pretty underrated. It is a shame that it needs an energy and gets 1 less card, but a lot of people seem to forget that it does indeed have free retreat. It isn't sniped by Yanmega as easily, and you don't kill it as much with Earthquakes if you are using Donphan. The sleeping on Cleffa also tends to irritate me more than help me, and I honestly just don't like Cleffa as much, though I admit some decks can't afford that energy on Manaphy.
Click to expand...

Tyraniking said:
Depends on the deck. Don't play Cleffa in a deck focused on Donphan, for instance. Or just play one of each if you need to. Sometimes you'll want to pick neither and play Pichu.
Click to expand...

Both of these posts sum up the thread really well. IMO, play Manaphy only if you're playing something with Donphan. Nothing's more annoying than giving your opponent an easy prize. Cleffa is nice because it has the potential to be asleep, preventing anything from happening to it. They both have their pros and cons, but overall I like Cleffa more than Manaphy (in all other decks than Donphan).
 
It really does depend on the deck.

Cleffa is clearly the better overall card - it has no weakness, a great poke-body, a free attack and gets 1 more card. However, with the popularity of Yanmega and Tyrogue, it's a risk. Some decks - ones without Yanmega or a different 4-of free retreating basic generally have to take that risk because these cards' best uses are on the first turn. Manaphy does get the one pro of being a free retreater you can safely bench though.

Decks with Yanmega can opt to run Manaphy and it's generally the better play. Dead hands usually overlap with multiple basics, so changes you open Yanma and need Manaphy are pretty good. Also, how easy a prize Cleffa is in Yanmega mirrors is another reason to go Manaphy.

Decks running almost entirely 2 or more retreat basics (Donphan Dragons and Reshiram) should generally not run either. It usually takes too long to retreat then attack and at that point you've probably lost anyway. You might as well just run more draw support at that point.
 
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