Rescue Energy isn't great. Lets say you have a 3 Durant, none with energy, and an active Durant with a {M}. You attach a Rescue Energy to the active Durant, and use Devour. Durant is knocked out, and you send up another Durant. Then, you have to attach a {M}, or you can't attack. If you attach Rescue Energy, then you can't attack.
THE Durant thread: Durant NV.
- Thread starter Nizolka33
- Start date
I guess you're right– it won't work when you're being OHKO'd, and would only be useful in matchups where you would get OHKO'd. Oh well, I guess you'd just have to rely on speed over keeping four Durant out.
Is FSL worth it at all in here? It gives you some recovery against trainer lock, but you still need to worry about searching out what you just recovered. Also, N hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, but I think it deserves a mention. On one hand it cripples them with only 1 or 2 cards in their hand, but it also refuels their deck since they will most likely be having 6-7 cards in their hand, making you have to mill for 1/2 more turns than you would have had to do before.
No N. Your opponent does not need cards to continue attacking you; it helps your opponent more than yourself.
I think one or two FSL may be warranted for... but it depends on the amount of Trainer Lock you see. I'll have to test that matchup, anyways.
I think one or two FSL may be warranted for... but it depends on the amount of Trainer Lock you see. I'll have to test that matchup, anyways.
I haven't read every single sentance, so forgive me if this has already been asked.
Has anybody discussed using baby pokemon? The only reason they're there is for Gengar, which would play seeker and otherwise Lost Zone a Durant. Mime JR, just one or two might help. If you're not playing Gengar, just don't play them down. Junk Arm them or something.
Has anybody discussed using baby pokemon? The only reason they're there is for Gengar, which would play seeker and otherwise Lost Zone a Durant. Mime JR, just one or two might help. If you're not playing Gengar, just don't play them down. Junk Arm them or something.
^Rotom can serve that purpose as well. Getting a Gengar and multiple Seeker is a lot of work - they won't get to kill more than 1 Durant. Gengar isn't anywhere near popular anyway.
I ran 4 Revive and no Super Rod in mine. The Super Rod would only be for mirror if you did run it. 4 Revive was just to hit it when you need it. You only need 1 energy per Durant and you can Twins for them, so 10-12 is a great number.
Trainer lock is annoying, but it's pretty close to 50-50. They either need a Gothitelle with 4 energy (resist/Sp. Metal) or a Vileplume, Donphan and 3 energy. It's not easy to set all that up without Twins. I think adding Rescue would make it easily favorable, but I'm not too sure how much I like it.
As far as Pichu, I don't like it. If you start with Durant and Collector, you can T1 dicard. If you start with Pichu, you basically have to Playground to get all 4 out. I'd rather T1 mill 1-3 cards than wait to T2 to start. Also, it gets donked, like somebody mentioned. I don't think mulligans hurt too much; you are trying to deck them after all.
I ran 4 Revive and no Super Rod in mine. The Super Rod would only be for mirror if you did run it. 4 Revive was just to hit it when you need it. You only need 1 energy per Durant and you can Twins for them, so 10-12 is a great number.
Trainer lock is annoying, but it's pretty close to 50-50. They either need a Gothitelle with 4 energy (resist/Sp. Metal) or a Vileplume, Donphan and 3 energy. It's not easy to set all that up without Twins. I think adding Rescue would make it easily favorable, but I'm not too sure how much I like it.
As far as Pichu, I don't like it. If you start with Durant and Collector, you can T1 dicard. If you start with Pichu, you basically have to Playground to get all 4 out. I'd rather T1 mill 1-3 cards than wait to T2 to start. Also, it gets donked, like somebody mentioned. I don't think mulligans hurt too much; you are trying to deck them after all.
Celebi23, would you mind putting the list you're currently testing right now on here? You seem to understand this deck really well; I'd like to see how you approach the use of space in the deck. Obviously if you'd rather not that's fine, but I thought I'd ask regardless.
Night Maintenance really hurts Durant. Has anyone been able to test against decks with that in it? I'd imagine most decks will be playing about 2, so assuming you discard 1 (which is pretty likely), that could be an extra turn of milling.
Night Maintenance really hurts Durant. Has anyone been able to test against decks with that in it? I'd imagine most decks will be playing about 2, so assuming you discard 1 (which is pretty likely), that could be an extra turn of milling.
Yeah, about that... I dismantled it about awhile ago because I didn't have enough sleeves to make a deck I'm testing for Regionals. I saved the list on my computer, but it's not working. I'm using my dad's computer for now. It should working again in about a week, though. I probably won't be willing to post it, but I'd probably PM it to you.
I didn't test with Super Rod. But think about it - it's not going in any Vileplume deck, Stage 1's don't need it (8+ attackers), Yanmega/Magnezone also has more than enough attackers and can fit Rescue easily, and Zekrom makes better use of Energy Retrieval (8+ attackers). It won't go above a 1-of in Gothitelle, which is already favorable. Reshiram is horribly tight on space and I doubt many lists will fit it, but it might be a problem there.
I didn't test with Super Rod. But think about it - it's not going in any Vileplume deck, Stage 1's don't need it (8+ attackers), Yanmega/Magnezone also has more than enough attackers and can fit Rescue easily, and Zekrom makes better use of Energy Retrieval (8+ attackers). It won't go above a 1-of in Gothitelle, which is already favorable. Reshiram is horribly tight on space and I doubt many lists will fit it, but it might be a problem there.
I'm not gonna lie, I was originally a nay-sayer to this deck, but a friend of mine sufficiently beat my 5 times to my 1 win with me using 6 different decks against his Durant. The deck just gets eally crazy starts and with Revive and Junk Arm, you'll always be milling for 4. He played Speed Durant (heavy trainer lines, 4 N, and a few weaviles), so his draws were really crazy. I'm going to have to look more into it because he sufficiently owned me without taking too much time (top cut shouldn't be an issue).
I'm glad you've seen its potential haha. I'm still not a fan of Wevaile, though. Did he use Communication with it? I ran 3 N in mine, I think. I think it has potential in TC as well. Of course, if you're going to intentionally take forever, you might have a chance against it. But when you're playing about 8-turn games with one player virtually draw-passing and the other trying to play fast, I don't think it will have issues unless it goes to game 3. I haven't tested it with a time limit yet though.
He played massive great ball and dual ball counts. Major juniper, N, and Collector counts, and but I don't think there were any other supporters. Weavile kinda makes sense, but it kinda doesn't. The deck LOVES bench sitters, and by the time that the opponent sets up, it is far too late to KO the Durants. Weavile, if you get it, really helps the early game situation. I am still unsure if it is necessary... it feels necessary, but you never know. After regionals, I'll add this deck into my 'to watch" pile. IDK if there were communications... if so, not very many.
Great Ball? I wouldn't think that would be the best option– With 4 Dual Ball/4 Collector/4 Junk Arm, shouldn't it be fine?
Also, why N? That seems like it would just create an extra turn of milling. I get that it's disruptive, but nonetheless... I'll include it in the list, at least, since people appear to be favoring it.
Also, didn't he play Twins? I thought that was a staple 4-of.
Anyways, thought I'd compile everything in this thread into just a "basic" list based on what's been discussed. Here it is, so far at least:
Pokémon (5):
4x Durant NV
1x Rotom UD
T/S/S (44):
4x Twins
4x N
4x Pokémon Collector
4x Dual Ball
4x Professor Juniper
4x Eviolite
2x Defender
4x Junk Arm
4x PokéGear 3.0
4x Revive
4x Great Ball
2x Alph Lithograph
Energy (11):
4x Special Metal Energy
7x Metal Energy
You know it's a fun deck when you're playing 44 T/S/S.
Also, why N? That seems like it would just create an extra turn of milling. I get that it's disruptive, but nonetheless... I'll include it in the list, at least, since people appear to be favoring it.
Also, didn't he play Twins? I thought that was a staple 4-of.
Anyways, thought I'd compile everything in this thread into just a "basic" list based on what's been discussed. Here it is, so far at least:
Pokémon (5):
4x Durant NV
1x Rotom UD
T/S/S (44):
4x Twins
4x N
4x Pokémon Collector
4x Dual Ball
4x Professor Juniper
4x Eviolite
2x Defender
4x Junk Arm
4x PokéGear 3.0
4x Revive
4x Great Ball
2x Alph Lithograph
Energy (11):
4x Special Metal Energy
7x Metal Energy
You know it's a fun deck when you're playing 44 T/S/S.
It's not the number of other cards in the deck - it's the number of other basics.
If you just have 4 Durant in the deck, you're guaranteed to start with one. So you have 3 left out of 53 cards when you set aside 6 prize cards.
If you add in other basics, you might start with no Durant in your opening hand. When this happens and you set aside your prizes, you have 4 left out of 53 cards instead. This increases the chance you prize it.
As you increase the number of basics, you increase the chance you start with a basic other than Durant. Of course, it eventually gets to a point where you almost always have a basic in your opening hand, and adding basics after that hardly changes it (there's still one Durant in every 15 cards). But adding stuff like simple like a 2-2 line of Weavile and a Rotom does make a notable difference when compared to just having Durant.
It also decreases the chance you get a T1 4 Durant. If you start something else, you suddenly need both Collector AND Dual Ball heads to get it. T1 3 Durant is usually fine, but 4 is obviously still better. This is assuming free retreat; with a retreat cost you also need a Switch/SSU heads.
If you just have 4 Durant in the deck, you're guaranteed to start with one. So you have 3 left out of 53 cards when you set aside 6 prize cards.
If you add in other basics, you might start with no Durant in your opening hand. When this happens and you set aside your prizes, you have 4 left out of 53 cards instead. This increases the chance you prize it.
As you increase the number of basics, you increase the chance you start with a basic other than Durant. Of course, it eventually gets to a point where you almost always have a basic in your opening hand, and adding basics after that hardly changes it (there's still one Durant in every 15 cards). But adding stuff like simple like a 2-2 line of Weavile and a Rotom does make a notable difference when compared to just having Durant.
It also decreases the chance you get a T1 4 Durant. If you start something else, you suddenly need both Collector AND Dual Ball heads to get it. T1 3 Durant is usually fine, but 4 is obviously still better. This is assuming free retreat; with a retreat cost you also need a Switch/SSU heads.
Yes, but that chance is minimal. You're saying the chance that the deck slot # of a durant will be 8-13, and that your 1 Rotom's slot # will be 1-7. If you mulligan it gambles again until you reach a basic. This is also excluding the chance of multiple basics. To avoid all the complicated math, it may be worth putting in another basic just based on your metagame. It'll all boil down to personal preference in the end.
It is a very minimal chance, but it still exists. And having ultimate consistency compared to something else is a notable difference. It's not the sole reason not to clutter the deck with other lines, and not one of the more important ones, but it is one of them.
I was testing Durant with Weavile and Durant without Weavile on PTCG just the other night. I prefer Durant without Weavile sooooooo much more. The extra spaces used to include Weavile are much better spent on cards that could help get four Durant in play, with the Active Durant having an Energy attached to it (for example, no Weavile gave me a higher Energy count, more PONT/Juniper/Sages for draw, and as Celebi said, it's much harder for a Durant to be prized). If Durant is able to mill four cards on its first turn, then having Weavile isn't really needed; the constant mill is crippling enough.
After testing with Gliscor, I have discovered two things.
1) Flower Shop Lady is really useful. Gliscor was playing Gothitelle, so I had no way to revive my Durant. FSL saved me.
2) N is bad. I had an awful hand, and Gliscor had a big one. To be able to get a Durant out, I had to N. Use PONT or Juniper instead.
1) Flower Shop Lady is really useful. Gliscor was playing Gothitelle, so I had no way to revive my Durant. FSL saved me.
2) N is bad. I had an awful hand, and Gliscor had a big one. To be able to get a Durant out, I had to N. Use PONT or Juniper instead.