The Importance of Coin Flips in the Current Format

dmaster

dmaster

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I'm just wanting to get some general opinions about this subject.

I've read that a couple coin flips were all that separated the Nationals Winner and the 2nd Place Runner-Up. With cards like Pokemon Reversal (used in combination with Junk Arm), Tyrogue/Cleffa/Babies (flipping to see if they wake up), and of course the all important flip at the beginning of the game determining who goes first, this is an extremely luck based Format. Do you think some of these things should change or will change?

I've heard that Catcher will decrease the amount of coin flips from Reversal and that will be both a double edged sword for the metagame. Other people are willing to substitute in Manaphy UL over Cleffa to avoid the first turn KO from a Tyrogue (or something else) even though it is vastly inferior. Do you think that the National's luck based performance will be repeated at Worlds and if it will, will it ever go away? How important do you see coin flips in the Format right now and the future? Do you think there should be a drawback to going first because there seems to be no reason to go second anymore and if so, what should that drawback be? Do you honestly think with these coin flips being prevalent, do we have a healthy Format?

dmaster out.
 
Well we moved away from the donk era and now we enter the flip era. I'd rather have a flippy format than the MD-on anyday but still. The flips can get annoying at times and we should go back to the pre-BW rules but even then the one who goes first has a Yanmega advantage but that's mitigated with the no usage of TSS
 
And then we go from the flip era to the catcher era where almost everything is/was an easy prize. We players simply have to adapt like the animals in Darwin's evolution theory.
 
I then again prefer no flippy era. Since i'm unlucky mostly. There's tho few decks that only needs start flip and few baby flips, especially when catcher comes.
 
tbh,i really hate the flippiness factor thats in this game atm,especially the baby flips,reversal is atleast ok,its you choice to run it or not...but baby flips are so very annoying,and there is virtually no pokemon that can get past bodies atm(exc.machoke and ttar) :(
 
A guy lost sudden death due to his opponent's cleffa not waking up in time. This is a flippy format but at least we get to play the game rather than MD-on where we just wait if we make it out of the Sableye player's turn.
 
I honestly love how most of you are saying this format is TOO flippy. The last format only required 1, you read that right, ONE coin flip the entire game. and if you go first, the odds of getting donked were pretty good in the format we played in. Now I didn't play at Nats, but I have been testing already with this format, and I have to say the flippiness of the decks is alot more fun. Such as an Illumise/Volbeat deck, speed based, but extremely flip based attack. I really think most of you were spoiled with the previous two formats (same format technically). I am one who grew up with base set, and while I never played competitively when it started (Haymaker days), all the fun decks were mostly flippy. So everyone needs to get used to it because we're going back to the basics.
 
Like I said, it may be flippy and it's weird and all but at least we get to play past the Sableye's turn 1. The only thing people gripe about are how much of the important cards rely on flips. A baby check can make or break your game.

Regarding about if this is a healthy format? I say yes. After a couple of years where you can lose to donks. This is better.

Note that right now, we are begging to go first but face it, back in the other formats you would be begging to go second. It just evens out.
 
Lol Manaphy is vastly superior to Cleffa, not inferior. All that Cleffa has going for it is the fact that it requires no energy, it gets 6 cards rather than 5, and it has its body, though that can also hinder it. Manaphy has 60 HP, so it doesn't get killed as easily (and there are many ways to get around Cleffa's body....). Most notably it isn't one-shot by Tyrogue or a Yanmega snipe. It still does the trick for hand refresh, providing you have an energy, and if you run water or rainbow energy, you can KO babies with a plus power. In a way, it's Cleffa and Tyrogue in one. It just doesn't get killed by Tyrogue. It also doesn't have the issue of falling asleep and staying asleep next turn so that you can't attack or retreat and could be vulnerable the next turn.
 
In my opinion, I haven't noticed this format being so flippy. Correction: a good deck shouldn't need to be flippy. Sure, babies are the predominant starters, but Manaphy and Jynx (That's right, you heard me. Jynx. Look it up) are far superior starters. I can't think of a Tier listed deck that's flippy. Let's see: Reshiboar, MagneBoar, MegaZone, MewLostGar, ZPS, DonChamp… you get the point.

Pokemon Reversal is going to be outclassed by Pokemon Catcher, and a good player should be able to cope with starting second.
 
yeah or cards like gastly, haunter and gengar prime where you place damage counters, which technically isn't "doing damage." this gets around those babies easily.

but honestly, I like this format better than last. I believe last format was a little more competitive, due to it not relying so much on flips, but this format levels the playing field where many newcomers have a chance more-so than last format. I went to states last format a month after I began playing and got wrecked...then my brother started playing a month before nats this format with the same preparation I had and he did as well as I did.

the problem with this format is that after preparing intensely for competing, you can just get out-lucked by your opponent, which is a total bummer. at nats, every deck I lost too luckily flipped heads on numerous reversals. that's the only way I lost because each time I lost I was set up before my opponent.

the upside is from what I stated before, as well as league play being a lot better. I have tons of fun at league now...many more people run fun decks and the overall environment is happier. before the format change, everybody at league ran what they ran in competitions (because otherwise you had no chance) which was kind of a bummer.

only change I'd like is for it to go back to the other starting rules where first turn can't play t/s/s. they still have the advantage of evolving first with rare candy eratta'd and with yanmega being so popular, that advantage is huge. yeah this current ruling stops tyrogue and ZPS donks from being as frequent, but other than that the game is often determined by who goes first.
 
With Refliptini in the mix, coin flips will be big. Expect Victini + Golurk decks in the future. They can have a lot of potential.
 
P0KEVORTEX said:
With Refliptini in the mix, coin flips will be big. Expect Victini + Golurk decks in the future. They can have a lot of potential.
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With 4 energy cost attack with 130hp? I don't think so, also victini is easy to ohko. (Catcher). Taking in mind that there's no real energy loader in fighting decks. I would imagine seeing Vanilluxe with victini instead.
 
True, didn't consider him. He will be better, certainly. It seems that I've reverted to the childish form of thinking that a possible 200 damage will always be great.
With all of these EP cards discussed, I'm not aware of many of their powers yet, but I'm sure that there is some popular metagame stuff brewing.
 
P0KEVORTEX said:
True, didn't consider him. He will be better, certainly. It seems that I've reverted to the childish form of thinking that a possible 200 damage will always be great.
With all of these EP cards discussed, I'm not aware of many of their powers yet, but I'm sure that there is some popular metagame stuff brewing.
Click to expand...
Indeed hits hard, but still slower than Magnezone which can hit even more without flipping. But it burns energies, tho it has 2 powerful energy loaders. Feraligatr and Emboar, tho Emboar is prefered since fera only loads water types.

Most players seem to either forget power or speed, it's important to have both in this format.

What's the point of speed if you can't ohko or atleast almost score an ohko?

What's the point of power if you're much slower than the opponent?
 
The only true important coin flip happens before the game starts. Coin flips during the game don't really matter as much. I'd rather go first and go 1/5 on reverals than go second and go 4/5 on reversals.
 
I agree with the above statement that the coin flip in the beginning of the game is the most determining because whoever goes first gets to use TSS AND evolve the next turn. While the person going second only gets to use TSS and then wait to be attacked first by their opponent. To be honest, I liked the previous format better with the SPs and fast games, but maybe that's just me.
 
Yeah, it would've been best to not do a rotation and to not be able to play TSS on the first turn. Right now there is absolutely no drawback to going first besides that your opponent can tell your gameplan on their first turn.
 
Decmaster said:
In my opinion, I haven't noticed this format being so flippy. Correction: a good deck shouldn't need to be flippy. Sure, babies are the predominant starters, but Manaphy and Jynx (That's right, you heard me. Jynx. Look it up) are far superior starters. I can't think of a Tier listed deck that's flippy. Let's see: Reshiboar, MagneBoar, MegaZone, MewLostGar, ZPS, DonChamp… you get the point.

Pokemon Reversal is going to be outclassed by Pokemon Catcher, and a good player should be able to cope with starting second.
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I'd run Jynx if only it had free retreat... And I'm the one who told you about Jynx in the first palce. :p
 
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