The Planeswalkers of the Multiverse: A Magic the Gathering Discussion Group

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That's cool about mono-red, I liked what it had to offer but I didn't know it would hit the top tables (or even come close to winning) so quickly. Good to know his list, there are a couple of things I didn't think of adding, like Stormblood Beserker, for example.

Concerning your list, budget is always going to be a consideration. Obviously, there a few obvious changes to be made, but until you manage to trade your way up (or gradually invest in) the inevitably needed cards, there's only so much I can change.

First change:

-1 Etched Champion
+1 Mikeaus, the Lunarch (sp?)

I don't know how much he costs these days (he is a mythic from a brand-spanking-new set, after all) so this may not work out for you. However the benefits are worth the investment IMO. I'm not a big fan of Etched Champion, TBH: at best, you are paying three mana (in a deck with only twenty lands) for a 2/2 with protection from every color. It gets in for two consistently, but in such a fast, artifact-filled format, there are more than enough answers for it. That's if you even get the three artifacts out, and with all this artifact removal, there may be games where you are stuck with a 2/2 nothing for three mana. In any case, 2/2 protection from all colors is underwhelming in my opinion. The game could be over before it even gets to make a difference. The only time it helps IMO is in long, draw-out games. If you get into one of these, you're playing the deck wrong. :)

The upside is you get another Lunarch. If you haven't gotten a chance to play the deck, my group's been testing him out for a while. In anything white with plenty of creatures, he can make a little army get big real fast. He's great to have around.


I believe I have mentioned already your low land count. In this deck I do think you can get away with 20 lands. But if you ever find in testing that you get mana screwed often, do this:

-1 Etched Champion
+1 Inkmoth Nexus or Plains (budget)


Also, is there a reason for low Glint Hawks? I was pretty sure they are a staple in the deck, no?

-1 Etched Champion
+1 Glint Hawk

For sure. If you can't make any other change, make this one. Glint Hawk is still awesome (especially once you get that second Mox).

Edit: Bottom-line, I'd remove the Etched Champion.
 
I already have a Mikaeus in the deck, and with that and two Hero's I don't think I need a second Mikaeus. ($5 for Mikaeus btw).

Etched Champion is generally pretty good in the deck, and 75% of the time he's a 2/2 (or higher) unblockable, and he can help get in the last points of damage.

I find I'm often having to return Signal Pests and Vault Skirges with my Glint Hawk, so that's why I cut two. Maybe when I get another Mox or two, I might bump it back up.
 
Fair enough, if he works for you, then what can I say? In any event, though, I think a third Glint Hawk will provide more use in the early game for you, which is that deck is all about anyway.

In any event, three Etched Champion is just going to slow you down. I think you can comfortable run two (or none, should you decide as I have that its uses are limited).

I'm gonna build a vampire deck sometime in the week, I'll post it here for you guys to check out.
 
I`ve been running 4 since May, and he`s rarely been a dead draw. But I`ll see how he plays at 3.

I don`t think the Vampire deck has quite enough it needs. Stromkirk Noble, Vampire Interloper, Rakish Heir, and Bloodline Keeper are really the only playable Vampires, and even if you play Diregraf Ghoul as well you`re short on good 2 and 3-drops. I`d be interested to see your list, because I can`t find any other good cheap creatures for the deck.
 
Actually I just did some research, realized how much vamps really lost with the rotation. At this point, not worth building IMO.
 
I guess not. Man, if people actually played Extended, Vamps would be great.

4x Diregraf Ghoul
4x Stromkirk Noble
4x Vampire Lacerator
4x Bloodghast
4x Kalastria Highborn
4x Gatekeeper of Malakir
2x Lord of Lineage
2x Vampire Nocturnus

4x Lightning Bolt

Etc.
 
Agreed. Extended Vamps could be really, really potent. At the moment, I think Zombies are looking pretty hot at the moment. They've got a lot of strong creatures out right now, some awesome support spells, and the ability to easily splash blue for control magic.
 
Looking at your Tempered steel list, even when I ran 3 Mox Opals, I still had stutters with Etched Champion...
and I would run Etched Champion over Hero of Bladehold, so I'm not sure how your consistency is working with said Hero of Bladeholds... (enlighten me?)
I'm sorry, you REALLY need about 2 more Inkmoth Nexi...

How's Tempered Steel running?
 
Here's the thing with Hero - I don't really play it to win with it. I literally play it as a four mana burn spell. It's nice if it goes unchecked and wins the game for you, but most of the time your opponent has to kill it, and generally that requires them using Dismember. By the time I'm playing Hero (turn 4-6), having them lose four basically finishes the game. Without Moxes, Hero isn't as great, but with a Mox or two it's relatively easy to get out when you need it.

As for the Nexus... I'm working on it. Two is a lot easier to get than four, so I might just order them from Channel Fireball for $10-12 a piece. I'm hoping I can trade my Koth or something for the last two, that would be much better.

As far as how it's doing right now, Tempered Steel is ripping through almost every deck I play.

- Mono-Red: As crazy as it sounds, they can't keep up. They don't have enough burn to deal with all the creatures, and Vault Skirge just flat-out owns them, and if you have one out with a Tempered Steel, it's generally game-over. If they run Reckless Waif, it's basically a dead draw. The only thing that really hurts is that Goblin Arsonist can two-for-one you. I'd say 55/45.

- Birthing Pod: Generally too slow, although if they are playing a version with Inferno Titan they can steal games. Black versions occasionally have enough removal between Viridian Corrupter, Skinrender, Morkrut Banshee, Go For the Throat/Dismember and Beast Within, but sometimes it's just not fast enough. Bant colours just don't have enough removal. 60/40 against Bant, 55/45 against RUG or BUG.

- Solar Flare: Most control decks are just bad against Tempered Steel, and this is no exception. They run value cards, like Think Twice and Forbidden Alchemy, but if they don't have the time to get that value, they just don't function very well. It's annoying if they counter your Steel, when you're beating down for 4+ damage a turn and they're just drawing cards, it ends pretty quickly. Beware their Consecrated Sphinx though. 60/40.

- Mono-Green: Dungrove Elder can provide problems if it gets too big, but Garruk is pretty easy to beat with the fliers. Probably 55/45.

So there's my mini-matchup article thing. I've been testing on Magic Online with the list (minus the Mox), and I'm 6-1, losing one game to a Mono-Green player who ramped ridiculously fast and beat down with a 7/7 Dungrove Elder.
 
So I've been watching the new Standard format and I've got some changes to make my original RDW list a little bit more... standard friendly? Let's go with that. :)

PokeChamp's RDW 2.0
Standard

Main Deck
60 cards

23 Mountain
23 Lands

3 Chandra's Phoenix
3 Grim Lavamancer
2 Hero of Oxid Ridge
4 Stormblood Berserker
4 Stromkirk Noble
16 Creatures

3 Arc Trail
4 Brimstone Volley
4 Gut Shot
3 Incinerate
3 Koth of the Hammer
4 Shrine of Burning Rage
21 Other spells

Sideboard

1 Arc Trail
2 Dismember
1 Hero of Oxid Ridge
3 Manic Vandal
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Perilous Myr
4 Vulshok Refugee
15 Sideboard cards

Thoughts?
 
Holy crap! Just started my quest to price my entire collection, and found that Stromkirk Noble had shot from around $2 to over $10 almost literally overnight!

As for the deck - I like it. A few suggestions, though:

- I don't know how good Grim Lavamancer will be without the fetches. You only run 14 instants/sorceries, so I would reccommend replacing him with Spikehot Elder and/or Goblin Arsonist.

- How good is Gut Shot here? It seems worse than Shock/Galvanic Blast, since control decks won't have any creatures to hit, and pinging them for one by using a mana or two life seems sub-par. I'd play it in the sideboard.

- What are the Perilous Myr doing in the sideboard? And why only two?
 
Thanks for your feedback, here are my responses:

Concerning Grim Lavamancer, I haven't had time to test yet, but as far as I can tell 14 instant/sorcery spells should be enough, but in any case Grim is not on the forefront of the strategy (I reduced the count to 3 due to similar sentiments about my spell count). I think it will be enough to warrant the three spaces in the deck. But if not I'll look at increasing my burn spell count. Or if not, I have nothing against a good Goblin Arsonist.

Gut Shot isn't entirely necessary, but I do think it has some great interactions with the deck. It triggers, most notably, the Bloodthirst abilities of Stormblood Berserker for the price of two life. The fact I can do this for no mana I think makes it a great, consistent way to give the opponent huge problems on turn two.

Perilous Myr, believe it or not, is for the mirror. When it dies, I can trade it for a small creature or just ping the opponent directly.
 
I just updated my Tempered Steel to the following:

4x Signal Pest
4x Porcelain Legionnaire
4x Memnite
4x Vault Skirge
1x Phyrexian Metamorph (I love this card WAAAAY too much... When I drop it, I can copy useful things)
2x Blade Splicer
Creatures-19

4x Tempered Steel
3x Glint Hawk Idol
2x Origin Spellbomb
3x Marrow Shards (Odd, but shreds other weenie decks)
Spells-12

25x Plains
Lands-25

Cards-56

Sideboard not really fleshed out... (Don't worry about it)

Additions? (No Mox Opals or Inkmoth Nexi will be added, regardless of suggestions.)
I have a friend who runs Shrine of Loyal Legions to great effect, should I add it?
 
I think Arsonist is better for the mirror, since it can activate Bloodthirst for the Berserker.

As for the Tempered Steel deck - too many land. 25 is way high. Without Opals, I'd say max is 22-23 lands.

Add a fourth Idol, put the Marrow Shards in the sideboard, along with a few copies of Shrine (helps against sweepers).

I don't think Splicer is all that great here, or Metamorph. What can Metamorph copy that would be worth three mana and two life?

Finally, Dispatch is probably the best removal spell this deck has, I'd run four.
 
Thanks.
Sounds good...
For extra things, I understand the need for cheapness,
How about the following?

Gitaxian Probe (Draw/Nevermore combo)
Nevermore (It's not a control deck, I am aware...)
Hovermyr (I like it better than Spined Thopter)
Phyrexian Revoker
Gold Myr (replaces Mox Opal (in the mana sense, not the immediate T1 mana boost) and can attack, I've used this stupid card before...)

I've been looking at decklists online, and I've noticed that they use 3-2 Porcelain Legionnaires, why is that? Expense?

Also looking at your and others' addition of Hero of Bladehold; isn't it better to use Blade Splicer? 4 power for 3 mana instead of 4 mana, and one of it's an artifact... With first strike...
Isn't it better to use your turn 4 mana for a Tempered Steel/Etched Champion/Blade Splicer, and leave something open for a Dispatch? Just wondering...
 
Gitaxian Probe: If you feel like you need the draw, by all means play this. I don't think the deck needs it, but that's just my opinion.

Nevermore: I wouldn't bother. It's kind of a waste of mana, and Tempered Steel is pretty tight for space.

Hovermyr: I actually hadn't thought of this before. I think I would still run Spined Thopter, since it's more aggressive, but Vigilance is useful too.

Phyrexian Revoker: Great card. I play them in the sideboard, but with the popularity of Planeswalkers it would be easy to main these.

Gold Myr: Erm, I'd say no. It's easy to get rid of, costs more mana, can't tap the turn it comes into play, and only makes White mana, so you can't pay for something like Vault Skirge if you need to.


EDIT: As for the Hero's... they just win the game if you untap with them.
 
Looking for a cheap Modern deck... thinking of going with RDW, nothing else catches my eye for under $100-150.

4x Goblin Guide
4x Keldon Marauders
4x Hellspark Elemental
3x Hell's Thunder

4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lava Spike
4x RIft Bolt
4x Magma Jet
4x Brimstone Volley
4x Shrine of Burning Rage

4x Teetering Peaks
17x Mountain


Sideboard:

3x Tormod's Crypt
4x Smash to Smithereens
4x Blood Moon
4x Slagstorm
 
Don't most modern decks run Iona, Shield of Emeria for this reason?
To stop one color decks from functioning?
 
I haven't seen any decks running Iona - what decks could afford to run a 9 mana creature (other than ramp decks, which don't play White)?
 
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