The Set Rotation Discussion Thread

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GraveTheUndead said:
So basically all this is another "Fifth gen's Pokemon are terrible" statement?
All a matter of opinion, but it's not like we're gonna stay with 5th gen Pokemon forever.

I should've corrected what I said earlier, not all the Fifth Gen Pokemon are terrible I was just refferring to the players of the TCG that like the previous Generation Pokemon more than the new Generation of Pokemon in Black & White. There are people out there (like myself) who like both Gen 4 and Gen 5 or just Gen 4 over Gen 5 like with MTGXerxes on YouTube.

Nostalgia plays a huge role in Pokemon, why do you think people shouldn't be allowed to run their favorite Pokemon from previous Generations with Black & White? That just sounds really unfair and it's unfair to the players of the game who've already invested in this TCG for several years since Ruby/Sapphire, Diamond/Pearl, or earlier...

I know Rotations are an important part of the TCG, but going to the extreme of cutting 12 expansions from our current format to just 1 or 2 for our next Modified format after Worlds 2011 or sooner is not right. That doesn't really sound like something that TPCi and P!P would do and they don't want to lose people who are playing the TCG cause they'd lose money as an end result to it.

DNA said:
It's not a stagnation; it's a reboot. I'm sure you've noticed by now all the attention Gen 5 is getting because of all the different things it's doing: a radically different plotline, new changes to TCG cards (including some errata), absolutely zero Pokemon related to prior gens present in the Unova Dex, reverting back to primitive names...I could go on but you get the idea.
(Also, when it comes to Base Set days, Haymaker and Raindance was the play. Were we restricted to just a few sets again, we would once again get a handful of decks that are the play. I predict good things for Klinklang and Reshiram, but that's just me.)

Um there is a National Dex in Black & White that's added to the Unova Dex that includes Pokemon of previous Generations after you've defeated the Elite Four and Team Plasma. Though 5th Generation was designed to be a "reboot" it wasn't a complete one due to the fact that old Pokemon show up after you beat the game just once.

The Base Set days of Pokemon were the Base Set days when the Pokemon TCG was first released by Wizards of the Coast because it was out when the Pokemon craze first started around the new millennium in the last decade. Back in the day the Pokemon TCG metagame was all about Trainers and less of a focus on Pokemon themselves, it's evolved since then so I don't see any reason to change it now.

A metagame shouldn't be restricted to just 2 decks otherwise you're going to see people playing the same decks over and over and it gets old really fast, that's what would happen in a BW-On format. Stage 2 decks are neutered that haven't been Modified legal for at least a year, good Supporters are rotated out, important techs from past sets get the shaft. Cards would lose their value and more people would quit because of a lack of expansions to work with. The crybaby excuse doesn't work as it didn't have a valid point to it.

DNA said:
I just don't like you bashing the idea that a BW-on rotation would be 100% bad, because it wouldn't. Yes, an HGSS-on would probably be a better idea, because we're keeping a lot of vestiges from the old format, but at the same time, before we get any rotation, we are going to be getting BW2. And we have absolutely no idea about every card in that set - so it is potential that it will release cards that will make a BW-on rotation totally feasible.

That's because HGSS-On is the better idea, just because we get a second expansion in the Black/White Block doesn't mean that we need a rotation to just Gen 5 cause there's cards in previous sets that people have already expected to still run next format like for Fire decks that run Ninetales for drawpower, the new Klinklang with Shift Gear's synergy Steelix Prime and/or Scizor Prime, Zekrom being a viable deck with Pachirisu CoL and Shaymin UL, etc.

Rare Candy doesn't need to go anywhere, infact it's one of the only Trainer - Item cards that has never been rotated out of the Modified format and has been reprinted more times than I can count, reason being cause it's crucial for Stage 2 decks to be competitive despite the recent errata on it. We need Professor Elm's Training Method to replace Bebe's Search If it gets rotated as there is hardly any new Trainer -Supporter in Black/White Base Set that can get Pokemon for free like Bebe's and Elm can. Sure Bebe's has the 1 card shuffle cost but that's minor at best.

How would we be able to get back our Pokemon/Energy without Flower Shop Lady to replace Palmer's? What about Pokemon Collector the most crucial Trainer - Supporter in our current format only to get rotated out without anything taking it's place in our next format? No Double Colorless Energy either, okay so we're going to neuter Pokemon that rely on it even more especially by getting rid of Rare Candy which I don't see happening. You see where I'm going with this don't you? :/

Waspy said:
^While I would actually like a Base like feel in the game again, and BW would bring that, I think HGSS on is the most reasonable rotation. It's far more balanced than anything from the Plat block staying and does reboot the game somewhat while giving players something to mess around with that they already own.

QFT.
 
The problem is a HS on rotation is currently being broken by Lost World. That metagame has had ample testing in Japan and doesn't really work. Fix that and you've got a deal.
 
Waspy said:
^While I would actually like a Base like feel in the game again, and BW would bring that, I think HGSS on is the most reasonable rotation. It's far more balanced than anything from the Plat block staying and does reboot the game somewhat while giving players something to mess around with that they already own.
Exactly. BW-on would be a bit hilarious in its own right, but HS-on is probably the best idea anyway. (I still want a BW-on rotation anyway, even though the odds of it happening are pretty slim.)
Lost World is a terrible deck and I doubt it will get any better after the rotation. In fact, it'll probably get worse, since you lose Giratina, DCL, Palkia G...and so on. Gengar Prime? LOL!
 
^eeeehhhh it might become BDIF along with reshiboar and zekrom. with the gain of mime jr as a starter and rare candy. with the slower format you can stack energy and LZ to your hearts content. its not out yet and with the quite small amount of dark poke that can deal 70 and still hold its own against other deck (i know there are some like tyranitar but still) it is quite the contender.

i believe the yin yang legendaries will become BDIF for being basics and having such power so quickly...like a new haymaker... (i just looked up that deck on google...i would hate to face that deck)
 
So what I'm getting at here is that decks based on Zekrom and Reshiram in the next format have the potential to become the next "SP/Haymaker" decks of the format If you will.

Zekrom decks especially the combo it works well with pertaining Shaymin UL and Pachirisu CoL I don't think will be too big of a threat due to Donphan Prime If we keep HGSS-On and that it would lose Sunyshore City Gym and Exploud SV to get around {F} Weakness. That would also mean {F} decks would become more popular putting Tyranitar variants at a type disadvantage If Zekrom becomes a Tier 1 deck.

Reshiram decks on the other hand might be a problem but it will take awhile for it to setup especially with Ninetales HGSS (Roast Reveal) and Typhlosion Prime come a HGSS-On format. Like with Zekrom it also has access to Revive to get it out of the Discard Pile straight to the Bench. I do think {W} decks like with Blastoise/Feraligatr Prime still have a chance against Reshiram variants since like I said Reshiram needs more time to setup it's field compared to Zekrom which doesn't need that much time at all with the correct setup in hand.
 
^what...there is no typhlosion in reshiram. its emboar (rare candy...T2 emboar no prob) and reshiram and run more than usual energynand 4 IQ...that is all. maybe ninetails
 
DNA said:
Waspy said:
^While I would actually like a Base like feel in the game again, and BW would bring that, I think HGSS on is the most reasonable rotation. It's far more balanced than anything from the Plat block staying and does reboot the game somewhat while giving players something to mess around with that they already own.
Exactly. BW-on would be a bit hilarious in its own right, but HS-on is probably the best idea anyway. (I still want a BW-on rotation anyway, even though the odds of it happening are pretty slim.)
Lost World is a terrible deck and I doubt it will get any better after the rotation. In fact, it'll probably get worse, since you lose Giratina, DCL, Palkia G...and so on. Gengar Prime? LOL!

That terrible deck that took second in the european challenge cup and would have won if it weren't for a misplay? Really? At least do your homework if you are going to slander a deck. Getting back on topic, I think HGSS is what we will see. It looks clean in terms of a cut off. We ditch the sp and lv x mechanics. Stage 2 decks get a better shot, even with this idiotic rewording of rare candy. Everyone wins.
 
vile/lost-gar is pretty easy to beat.. anyone know if the fossils being classified as pokemon And trainers means you can start with it as your active pokemon t1??
 
catutie said:
^what...there is no typhlosion in reshiram. its emboar (rare candy...T2 emboar no prob) and reshiram and run more than usual energynand 4 IQ...that is all. maybe ninetails

Yeah you're right about Emboar as it's a much better tech with Reshiram than Typhlosion Prime, however you need to Rare Candy it out Turn 2 then use Interviewer's to get a load of energies to use it's Ability to attach onto Reshiram.

Ninetales is for drawpower of course. Now that you mention it unless they're running a {W} deck you shouldn't have a problem getting setup as fast as Zekrom decks will. Definitely looking forward to building Reshiram in HGSS-On but I'm really going to miss Charizard AR. :p
 
vile/lost-gar is pretty easy to beat.. anyone know if the fossils being classified as pokemon And trainers means you can start with it as your active pokemon t1??
You can play it down before your first turn, i.e. during setup. After all Pokemon are flipped face-up, though, and a Spiritomb is active, you can't play them.
That terrible deck that took second in the european challenge cup and would have won if it weren't for a misplay? Really?
Sounds like whoever was playing against Lostgar didn't know how to play against it. That or Lostgar got ridiculously easy matchups for the tournament, either of the two.
 
that's kinda cool. too bad mysterious fossils count as knock outs now tho =/ I miss clefairy doll. make the opponent waste resources, yeah! lol

someone at regionals was calling vilegar and lostgar "Vilegarbage" and "lostgarbage" was that you DNA? =p

I really think that Arceus has a better chance of dominating the next format than lostgar does. given that in top cut you have to take prizes to make the match count.
 
yeah, he was running an Ursaring prime deck. we kept trading prizes. he would OHKO me, then I would 2 hit KO his belted ursarings. it came down to the last prize.. good game.

what did you play @ regionals?

on topic: who else is now paranoid that TPCi is going to see that they messed up by no mid season rotation, that they'll rotate out more sets next year?
 
they just need to get rid of SF. although...if they do that Lux Chomp will go undefeated in 100% of the tournaments with no gyrados to keep it in line
 
^If SF is rotated, PT will almost most definitely be rotated, which means Luxchomp won't be as good.

I think Blastgatr, Scizor, Steelix, and Arecus will rule the next format. Mostly Blastgatr though.
 
^hmmm....that is 2 stage 2's to set up. im saying to get rid of SF for nats. with the new rules sabledonk will win 90% of the time. so getting rid of SF or banning sableye will fix this
 
I think Machamp SF keeps any SP in check more than gyarados.. since Luxray GL X can OHKO a gyarados. (lucario GL makes it easy)
 
Belted Gyarados can OHKO a lot of things. Not a lot of things, however, can OHKO a Belted Gyarados.
I just got the thought of a mid-season B/W-on rotation. Of course, I know the odds of that happening are probably less than 5%, but the thought is making me giddy.
@Carlitosbob: yeah, that's one of my friends, and he did tell me he was running Ursaring Prime at regs - so we're thinking of the same guy.
 
yeah, ask him if the guy that was running Arceus left behind 5 energy cards. I seem to have lost them.. and I fear I left them on the boat. =(
I think it was an Emerald leaf energy, rainbow season fire, rainbow season water, reverse Warp energy, and rainbow season rainbow energy. I'm only 50% sure about that last one. they were in Arceus sleeves. if he sends me the sleeves, he can keep the holo energy. I just don't want to be stuck with 55 Arceus sleeves. ya know?

Arceus can't OHKO a belted Gyarados without Lucario GL.. =( I kind of wish I added one into my deck for that reason alone. or at least a lost remover or two.

how rampant is trainer lock going to be after rotation? what with pokemon catcher, a decent way to heal damage, and just a good recovery system overall.
 
carlitosbob said:
what with pokemon catcher.

ya....pokemon catcher was cut from out BW set. i also dont think trainer lock will be to much of a threat with gengar gone...but mismagius does the same thing so it could still be rampant
 
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