Pokemon Type Combinations

PMJ said:
You guys are completely missing the point of professorlight's posts and I am loving it

anyway here I am delivering on the stuff I said I'd post but never got around to. Xous is forever my brother for drawing all this rad stuff for me (like ages ago).

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This is Smokoon, a Normal/Dark Pokemon. He evolves into...

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...Raccaflame, a Normal/Fire Pokemon. Technicallyyyyyyyyyy this typing is still unique since Pyroar is Fire/Normal, but that's just semantics at this point. I specifically designed this to have the fiery aspect of it almost an afterthought (which is how I figured it would be with Fire as a secondary instead of primary typing). I realize that's a hard idea to sell when its huge tail is on fire, but it's kinda like Typhlosion and friends in the sense that it only lights up when it's in battle. It also doesn't learn a lot of Fire-type attacks despite being Fire, which makes him a little unique in that aspect.

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This is Brutimus, an Ice/Fighting Pokemon. It is the final stage in a one-stage evolutionary line. (I haven't designed the basic form yet.) This Pokemon is everything that you would expect in an Ice/Fighting Pokemon: bone-crushing power and the stats to match. I think the design could use a bit of tweaking (Xous liked my description of what I wanted so much he went and did this totally on his own), but he looks pretty fierce without being covered in spikes and stuff. Brutimus is everything Beartic wishes he could be.

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Here's Scuracha, a Normal/Electric Pokemon. It is designed on a cockroach, doesn't evolve, and is obscenely fast (base 152). It is, however, exceedingly weak to compensate.

Teal said:
How about a Dragon/Fairy? I sure would like to see what that would look like. lol
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Your wish is my command:

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Meet Derkabelle, a Dragon/Fairy Pokemon. It is highly sought after by both men (it is rare, and also a dragon) and women (it's so cute!).

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Finally, for gits and shiggles, here is the Fire-type starter line for Shroob. Meet Pavolyte (Fire), Hennifor (Fire/Flying), and Costenburn (Fire/Flying). Their types aren't new, but their designs sure are. They're peacocks! I could honestly see peacocks being just about any type, but when I thought of all the bright and colorful plumage, I thought that it would be quite a sight to see... but it was fire instead. I mean, check out the last like 15-20 seconds of this kid's video and tell me it wouldn't be dope to see all those colors fanning out like 5 feet from Costenburn's tail.

:D

(I have more designs but no drawings if anyone's interested in arting!)

I forgot one.

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This is Preterbug, a Bug/Psychic Pokemon. This is the basic stage in a two-evolution line; however, while both males and females will evolve, only females can evolve further than that. Still drawn by Xous.
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I like your style, particularly in the pavolyte line, you do seem to have a tendency to let the typing you want drive the design, however. If you ever feel like doing a collaboration, let me know, please.

Bolt the Cat said:
professorlight said:
That's because the element has a disconnect between its pokemon design application and its move possiblilities; while ice as base concept is big, heavy things, with great endurance (mammoths, icebergs, etc), in attack, ice is purely elemental, magic, and those concepts don't mesh quite well.

And ice is not the only type.
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Big, heavy things aren't a part of the base concept for ice, and not all of them are big and bulky anyway. I mean, look at some of the Pokemon that Blob55 mentioned, Articuno, Glaceon, Cryogonal? Do these Pokemon represent big, heavy things? Not so much, no.
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I proved that same argument quite some time ago in a post I can't find, but I'll give it another shot.

Big things are part of the concept of ice because they are a natural consequence of the harsh environment, as is the resilience that comes with it:

dewgong (a dugong, a heavy mammal living in icy waters)
lapras (nessie? no idea why it it ice)
swinub - piloswine - mamoswine (snow--dwelling boars, mammoths another heavy mammals living in icy waters)
spheal - sealeo - walrein (walrus, another heavy mammal living in icy waters)
snover - abomasnow (the yeti, plus snow-covered pines)
rotom frost (a refrigerator)
cubchoo - beartic (a bear, yet another heavy mammal living in icy environments)
bergmite - avalugg (icebergs + turtles + tanks + aircraft carriers)
regice (an iceberg, representative of the ice age)
glaceon (a snow dog)

All those are heavy things, and they're all deeply related to the ice type. Now let's look at the rest:

amaura - aurorus (auroras, plus a heavy dinosaur with a sail)
smoochum - jynx (no idea)
articuno (winter, blizzards, ice+wind)
sneasel - weavile (a small ice-dwelling creature)
delibird (santa claus)
snorunt - glalie - froslass (eskimos, giant... ugly ice heads?, and a yuki-onna, a spirit that lives in the icy mountains)
vanilite - vanilish - vaniluxe (icicles + ice cream + snow)
cryogonal (a snow crystal)
cloyster (a large, heavy oyster)
kyurem (cold, it's heavy because its partners are heavy, though)

They're either based on light ice-related things (icicles, auroras, winter, cold) or they have a dubious relationship to the cold (jynx, delibird, snorunt, cloyster, etc); you can see there the relationship between weight and how related the pokemon is to what the ice type represents.

Ice in offense (moves) is purely elemental, but in defense (type) is highly resilient, tough, defensive, and its vehicles are mainly creatures that live in ice, and become the same.

There it's not as good as I did some time ago, but it is enough.
 
I'd take Glaceon out of the first list, because it's just Ice slapped onto Eevee regardless of what Ice is about as usual with those.

But great post :D


I always disagree with the notion that "being a good offensive type balances being a shit defense type" (which is also invalidated by the fact that there are types that are good offensive and DONT suck defensively, like Electric).

The two aspects have different roles and degrees of importance.

IMO, every type should be useful offensively except for Normal (for being the type of moves almost everyone has access to), which shouldn't be too bad either. Simplified, this usefulness is determined by:
#1: being strong against a number of types
#2: not being completely nulified too easily
#3: not resisted by way too many types
in that sense, Ice is doing way above average anyway, while some other types do not.
But that's not a key factor in what makes or breaks the pokemon of said type, because stats, whether it even has access to viable moves of its own type also play a role etc.
And even if your own type is not viable offensively for whatever reason, you don't ever rely on just your STAB. Actually access to other type of offense for coverage is just as crucial.


Which gets me to my point that the defensive side of the type chart deserves more attention and care for balance, because it makes or breaks any pokemon of the type that tries to do a defensive role (excluding it abuses some gimmick for that etc), unless it gets really lucky with a convenient type combination and ability (like Mamoswines Ground type and Thick Fat ability).


So the more important part is that no type should be awful defensively. That's the bottom line, regardless of what it's offensive aspect is.
A type should only have more than a few (~3) weaknesses if it has an immunity and/or plenty of crucial resistances to make up for it.

If you put the types-defenses on any kind of scale right now, Ice is last, but that's not the issue (something will always be the worst), the issue is that you could give Ice a few resistances and it would still be the worst, because it's just so bad.

It's about the balance between the weaknesses and resistances/immunities within a types own defensive spectrum.

Being weak to 4 types, and not resisting anything but itself is just ridiculous, no matter what reasoning anyone brings forth. This shouldn't happen to ANY type.
 
Mitja said:
Being weak to 4 types, and not resisting anything but itself is just ridiculous, no matter what reasoning anyone brings forth. This shouldn't happen to ANY type.
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Exactly! Also, its usefulness is down the drain too, because of Fairy types. Ice should have gained some buffs, such as increased Defense in Hail, resistance to Ground and Flying and more Ice types should have Mega Evolutions.

But no, instead of that, the creators said that they will not change the type chart mid-gen, as it will nerf some types, but even if they DID make those changes, Ice would still be the bottom anyway, just not AS bad.

Does anyone know how to get in contact with Gamefreak? They REALLY need to fix this.
 
Blob55 said:
Mitja said:
Being weak to 4 types, and not resisting anything but itself is just ridiculous, no matter what reasoning anyone brings forth. This shouldn't happen to ANY type.
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Exactly! Also, its usefulness is down the drain too, because of Fairy types. Ice should have gained some buffs, such as increased Defense in Hail, resistance to Ground and Flying and more Ice types should have Mega Evolutions.
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Ice still has a huge offensive presence. Its still the coverage move of choice for a ton of Water mons and Electric types.
It also has the benefit of hitting the all-so-common Dragon/Flying (and to a lesser extent Garchomp) for 4x damage. (whereas the only Dragon that Fairy hits for 4x is Hydreigon)

The thing with Ice, is that the type is much better when used as a coverage move on a non-Ice Pokemon. (see: pretty much all Water Pokemon ever)

Ice really does need buffs though. A resistance to Ground, Flying would help it... a Dragon resistance would help (as then they'd resist the Dragon/Ground combo... its not as great since the advent of Togekiss's Fairy type but its still ok) and then dragon would be resisted by 2 types and ineffective against 1 which seems pretty balanced (without really hindering it), and taking into account Dragons so often carry Fire Blast.
 
Reminding you that this is a thread about type combinations. You can propose buffs or nerfs to types in the Changes for Pokemon thread in this forum. Don't get too far off with the Ice discussion.
 
KamonSurge said:
I'd like to see more Ice/Psychic.

Like Jynx. I think she's the only one.
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you forgot smoochum

I agree. I think that it's a really interesting combination (well... Psychic slapped on anything could be an interesting combination xD) and whilst I do like Jynx for her Nordic/Viking woman look, there could be proper justice done for that type combination.

Another few types I'd be really interested to see (and possible inspirations for them):
Poison/Psychic - I'm thinking some sort of poison Reuniclus with toxic gas as opposed to cellular green stuff
Electric/Ice (discounting Rotom as its only a temporary form change) - Absolutely no clue
Poison/Steel - some kind of armoured scorpion?
Poison/Electric - if it weren't for Lord Galvantula then I'd think an electric spider (but since Galvie exists it would seem redundant). Some kind of electric snake?
 
His Goominess said:
Poison/Electric - if it weren't for Lord Galvantula then I'd think an electric spider (but since Galvie exists it would seem redundant). Some kind of electric snake?
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Funny you should mention Galvantula, as I thought about the same thing. Shame Galvantula isn't Electric/Bug instead -- an Electric/Poison evolution or Mega could've been cool. I don't think primary type (sans normal) has ever been replaced in Evolution, though. Shame, too, as a tarantula's urticating hairs could be built into a cool concept about throwing statically-charged toxin-filled hairs.

Earlier in the thread I came up with:
CMP said:
Electric/Poison, despite the fact it would be hit pretty hard by Ground attacks, was always a typing I thought would be cool nonetheless. Not quite sure what a potential Electric/Poison type could be, but I have some rough ideas. I know porcupine's quills don't contain any toxins, but I think in the context of a Pokémon the idea could work well. Or, as Gamefreak is moving further away from making all aquatic-based Pokémon Water-types, I think an Electric/Poison ray would be pretty cool.
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A snake could work, too. I think it'd be cool if the fangs were jagged -- in a lightning bolt shape.

And actually, now that I think about it, poison dart frogs are often brightly colored and come in all sorts of colors -- yellow/black and purple among them. Switch out the black with a nice dark purple, and I think it could be fitting for an Electric/Poison poison dart frog Pokémon.
 
I also have more ideals for more new Type Combos.

Fire/Poison: A Pokémon based off a deadly virus might be the route to go. The inspiration could come from Thrax, the main villain of Osmosis Jones.

Water/Fire: Although we have Volcanion, I would have loved to see this being a combo for Clauncher's Evolution, but I'm just as happy with how Clawitzer turned out. There's always room for another shrimp Pokémon in the near future.

Dark/Fairy: I would imagine this being a Legendary Pokémon based off Maleficent. A Changeling Pokémon is also welcomed.

Fire/Fairy would also work for another unicorn Pokémon. I would imagine the Pokémon being prone to jokes about it being a relative of Princess Celestia and/or Sunset Shimmer's parents, but a proper magical horse Pokémon (Ones that can use the likes of Psychic and Moonblast) is well overdue in my opinion.

Fairy/Grass could work for a Leprechaun Pokémon and a possible Mega Evolution for Florges.

Ice/Steel could be a Mirror Pokémon used and/or resides in mythological cold castles.

Poison/Steel could be another garbage-themed Pokémon. I would imagine it having aspects of the Junker from Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story.

Dragon/Fairy could be Mega Altaria's Type combo, but I'd also welcome a more majestic Pseudo-Legendary with this kind of combo.
 
His Goominess said:
Poison/Electric - if it weren't for Lord Galvantula then I'd think an electric spider (but since Galvie exists it would seem redundant). Some kind of electric snake?
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I had an idea for this. It's a Snake, which has a move called Toxic Shock. It's a Poison/Electric type move, which does little damage on the first hit, but a lot more on later hits. The first hit does, however, have a higher chance of Paralyzing the opponent.

It's a three-stage line, where it starts off as an egg eating Snake. This stage cannot learn any biting moves, because it has no teeth. The second stage has small fangs, but it's based on a Constrictor, so it can't use Toxic Shock yet. The final stage is based on Pit Vipers.

Toxic Shock has 45 Base power and has a 40% chance of Paralyzing the opponent. All consecutive hits will have 90 Base power, but only a 20% chance of Paralyzing.
 
Still hoping for steel/ghost haunted suit of armor.
 
PMJ said:
Still hoping for steel/ghost haunted suit of armor.
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I really wanted Rock/Ghost this gen, because I always confused Golurk for a Rock/Ghost and I think if there was a rock ghost, I wouldn't get the types mixed up.
 
CMP said:
Electric/Poison poison dart frog Pokémon.
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I like this a lot. I had had the idea for a Poison/Electric Mongolian Death Worm(supposedly it kills by using electric shocks and or spitting venom) but I'd rather have your idea. Maybe as an alternate evolution to Croagunk?

I think Water/Fire has a lot of potential. Examples include a flamingo, a torpedo crossed with a squid/octopus/cuttlefish/nautilus/jellyfish/dolphin/whale/shark, a salamander, an elephant teapot, sea dragon, a Torkoal (Mega?) evolution whose shell is a geothermal vent/geyser/cauldron, and a hot spring monkey, although I'd rather have that be Ice/Fire. Speaking of Ice/Fire, I think a comet+snake Pokemon could be cool. Rock/Ice would also fit with that. Water/Steel has a lot of potential such as a hammerhead, swordfish, sawfish, one of those underwater mines, maybe some kind of anchor, or one of those torpedo ideas with a type change.
 
KamonSurge said:
Poison psychic would be nice. Because then resistance to psychic.
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Well, not really a Psychic-type resistance -- Psychic's resistance to itself would negate Poison's weakness to Psychic-type attacks, so you'd end up with a neutrality, not a resistance.
 
CMP said:
KamonSurge said:
Poison psychic would be nice. Because then resistance to psychic.
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Well, not really a Psychic-type resistance -- Psychic's resistance to itself would negate Poison's weakness to Psychic-type attacks, so you'd end up with a neutrality, not a resistance.
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It's what I meant. You knew where I was trying to get at.
 
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