TZPS vs. Gothitelle/google

[Riskbreakers]

Dude.

What.

DCE not only helps you get the t1 with Tornadus, but helps you late game when energies become an issue.

It can also donk a Yanma, Horsea, Cleffa, Tyrogue with just 1 Dce + 1 PlusPower

 

[Futa]

I don't see why ZPST shouldn't run max DCE. It helps Tornadus like, so much (the deck's consistency pretty much), it allows Zekrom to donk with a PlusPower, etc.

Starting with Relicanth also isn't that bad. Yeah, it sucks if you can't pull a Switch or something or retreat it, but giving you a three card draw is nothing to laugh at.

 

[Riskbreakers]

I don't see why ZPST shouldn't run max DCE. It helps Tornadus like, so much (the deck's consistency pretty much), it allows Zekrom to donk with a PlusPower, etc.

Starting with Relicanth also isn't that bad. Yeah, it sucks if you can't pull a Switch or something or retreat it, but giving you a three card draw is nothing to laugh at.

He said.. "Not all ZPST decks use DCE." which means he doesn't use any at all. I only use three in my list.

 

[Celebi23]

I think Tom Hall even used 3-4 DCE in his worlds list before Tornadus even existed... just because faster Zekrom damage was really nice and it allowed cheaper late-game outrages.

 

[ESP]

So, what cards would be considered expendable in order to make room for Bellsprout?

 

[Celebi23]

The 4th Catcher, but past that we'd have to see your list.

 

[Cinema]

Believe it or not, ZPST lists seem to be really open to small techs. I've been trying out mew+relicanth, and although it makes gothitelle a much more winnable matchup, it does nothing for the googlebox, and that's the only reason Bellsprout+Magby might be better.

 

[Celebi23]

I like the reliability of Mew/Relicanth, and not getting donked is a plus. Reli can replace clutch draw too.

But no, it does nothing for googlebox - nobody plays it in my area though, so I don't really care.

 

[Cinema]

Bellsprout doesn't do a whole lot either, unless you time it perfectly, which is hard. Donphan will annihilate you, Especially once it gets 3 energy on it, and they start using their twins on second vileplumes/reuniclus or even DCE to retreat if they need to.

 

[Celebi23]

Bellsprout is dead weight against Gothitelle, but against googlebox if you hurl it with Relicanth, your Mews turn into some pretty persistent draggers. But yeah, it's very important to decide exactly when you should start dragging.

I opt not to run it in mine because googlebox isn't popular enough to tech for. But other people may want to consider it.

 

[ESP]

I only play 3 Catcher already... But yeah, I'm not as worried about google actually, more Gothitelle. It sounds like Mew/Relicanth would be the best option. Does it need Relicanth or can it function just w/ Mew?

 

[Celebi23]

Well you can't run Psychic Energy in a deck that relies on Self-Generation, so Relicanth is the only viable option. Absol requires a specific energy type as well, and there's no other cards to do it.

 

[ESP]

what about Darkrai Cresselia Legend and a few Psychic Energy? instead of Mews.

 

[Riskbreakers]

Legends are Bulky and most ZPTS won't run communication because they are only playing basics anyway.

 

[ESP]

well you can't use communication under trainer lock anyways. I just feel like this would be a better option than Mew because it can deal with both google and Goth really easily (Juniper/Sage's til you get both pieces, drop a Shaymin to move energy around if you need to, or just retreat and drop 1 Psychic for enough prizes to win the game fairly easily.)

 

[Riskbreakers]

Problem here is actually how will you set up something as unsearchable as a legend.

 

[dmaster]

Twins would be the only other option left. Not sure how viable it would be to actually use in a situation, but you will eventually go down in prizes against Trainer Lock. It's then similar to Black Belt in that way where they'll KO their own Pokemon to prevent you from using those cards like that...So yeah, not saying it's a _good_ option, I'm just saying it's the only other thing you can use to search out a Legend besides Communication if you wanted to.

dmaster out.

 

[Celebi23]

Bleh. Running Twins is Zekrom is basically the equivalent of running Switch in Vileplume. It basically never has a use. Also, if you use DCL to KO Reuniclus, Goth OHKOs you back and takes 2 prizes. It probably won't swing the game in your favor.

 

[Glace]

Twins... in ZPST? No... It wouldn't have much of a use at all, even after the lock. It could search out a tech, but all the techs that are consistant and good are basics...

 

[ESP]

Also, if you use DCL to KO Reuniclus, Goth OHKOs you back and takes 2 prizes. It probably won't swing the game in your favor.

But think about it. You can move as much damage as you like. If your opponent has like 80 damage on Reuniclus (because they know you don't have Yanmega), 120 on Benched Goth, at least 50 on a Zekrom, and a Pichu that they used to set up with 0, you can move that damage from their Zekrom to their other 3 Pokemon for 3 prizes (and very possibly the win).

all the techs that are consistant and good are basics...

That is most definitely not true. Kingdra Prime is a tech in MegaJudge and sometimes TyRam, and it's definitely not bad. Blissey Prime was a sort of tech in google's deck and it can't be all bad, he did get 2nd at Worlds with it...