TZPS vs. Gothitelle/google

Yes, but in trainer lock it will be hard to get the energy needed, the DCL parts, and to get it in active position.
 
glaceon said:
Yes, but in trainer lock it will be hard to get the energy needed, the DCL parts, and to get it in active position.
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Hard, yes, but not impossible. I already run a high supporter count. DCL only requires 1 Psychic Energy. All I'd have to do is have an active Pokemon with an energy to retreat it, drop the DCL (sage's or Junipers or Oak's all have a high chance of getting it for me near the end of the game when the deck size is low), drop a Shaymin to move a Psychic, or just a Psychic if I have it in hand), and take prizes.
 
I think he meant all the techs for ZPST are basics, not decks in general.

It just seems like too much work to me to get off multiple Bolt Strikes, a Legend in play, and a new energy type before they just get multiple Gothitelle in play.
 
Ya, We are talking about ZPST, not other decks.

And your correct, it is too much work, especially when basics can do the job just as well, but take up less space and require less of a hassle.
 
I don't think Basics do the job even nearly as well here. Mew is only good against Gothitelle, not google. Bellsprout fails if google has a DCE or if Goth has a Switch/Junk Arm/DCE. Magby fails in the same way as Bellsprout. DCL may be a harder route to go but it pays off a lot more.
 
If Gothitelle switches out it will still force them to burn energy, and 50% of the time, you can use Magby again. In theory, it may sound bad, but it has been heavily tested in the DE area, and works.
 
Weezing CL is also an option. If you run DCE, you attach it and boom. If not, you drop a Pachi and load it up. It seems like it devotes less deck space, only 2-4 cards
Xatu is also and option, considering they stack energies, however, they would need to have at least 4 on them.
 
Weezing's okay against Gothitelle, but what about google? It seems like you kind of just concede against google, unless you can destroy their setup the first 2-3 turns of the game with crucial catchers.
 
I play all that minus the seekers, but it still just loses to google about every time.
 
You need the early game Catchers to win against trainer lock. Otherwise The Truth will get a Vileplume out, then a Reuniclus and it's all over unless you run another tech.
 
Since I finally have enough experience with both ZPST and Gothitelle, I think I can finally post in this thread (what use is it to post if you have no knowledge of the case to begin with?).

First of all, I advice against DCL in ZPST. A friend of mine even tested ESL (along with some rainbows) to face the Gothitelle matchup, and one point of the entire tech in question (any Legend in this case) simply suffers from 1 or 2 problems:

- the obvious point is the searchabillity of the Legend; even with Sage's and Juniper there is no way to guarantee you don't want/need cards in favor over one Legend piece, and keep in mind that one of the parts can be prized (and after the lock gets up, you're not very likely to keep on drawing prizes). My friend eventually went to playing [insert Legend name here] in a 2-2 way, ruining his consistency badly (it was playtesting after all).

- the second part was that once the Legend goes down(which WILL happen, or so my playtesting experience taught me), you're sacrificing 2 prizes. Since you're having trouble coming out of the lock, giving up 2 prizes as well won't do you any good, now will it? The 2 prizes it gives up turns out to be quite a liabillity if you ask me.

ZPST simply isn't designed to include a Legend, and mainly because ZPST has no consistent way of getting it out. I personally would suggest putting in a mix (or any of the following on it's own) of the following cards and see what works best for you:

- Aipom (to move those energy around
- Bellsprout (which can work as a Catcher under trainer lock)
- Magby (to burn, and hope to stall. Also pray they fail with their flips!)
- Rotom (can exchange prizes with useless cards, and can snipe if needed. Has trouble OHKO'ing those Gothitelle though!)

For me, Bellsprout has proven to be the best tech, as it simply allows you to break the trainer lock (when against Gothitelle), or it allows you to drag up their Vileplume. It's also simply fetched by Collector/Dual Ball, as anything else in the deck.

Good luck!
 
DCL is not a good tech. It will get knocked out 2 prizes, Max Potion ruins it, and you'll never get the cards you need for DCL under trainer lock. It also takes a lot of space compared to Magby or Bellsprout.

Let's not beat a dead horse (for those who are wondering, it's a saying) here.
 
Magby for Gothitelle, Bellsprout for The Truth. It's that simple. I personally only run Magby, as I am yet to see The Truth, and its probably an autoloss anyways if you dont outspeed it because of Donphan.

EDIT: Actually, because they wouldn't run Switch or Catcher, it would be pretty easy just to use Tornadus. I take back what I said.
 
^Magby also works alright on Truth too. Zekrom has weakness on SEL, and with 2 tails flips in a row for Burn, Zekrom can OHKO a Donphan too.
 
Yes, but still because if Reuniclus, The Truth can move damage off Donphan, and knockout Tornadus.
 
If they flip tails after their turn ends, Zekrom does 80 to Donphan, then they flip tails at the end of your turn on burn, you "OHKO" the Donphan and there is no damage left to move off.
 
I hate to be talking post-Regionals here, but has anyone considered Kyurem? It can outrage to OHKO Donphans, and while running water/rainbow energy seems inconsistent, the spread really wrecks Gothitelle, since you're throwing 180 damage into their damage-moving equation when they probably already have damage all over their bench. As long as they don't have a Chansey with less than 60 damage on their bench, the spread is devastating. Ugh, this makes me wish we had Prism Energy right now...

But enough of looking too far ahead into the future. For now, Mew does seem to be the best counter to Gothitelle, and I suggest trying Lanturn for Donphan, despite the fact that it is stage 1 and usually gets KO'd back. It puts you back into an even prize exchange(which you should already be ahead in), and Lanturn's attack can work rather well for Mew against Gothitelle.
 
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