Finished Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Members win!

[rev3rsor]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

guess what I'm finally online
You guys post a lot not that it's a bad thing.
I'm MTC btw, with an ability based on a well-known MTC thing.
Since Drohn appears to be clearly non-members, I shall ##TRIP: Drohn

 

[GM DracLord]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Although drohn is clearly a non member based on his clamed.. But if wht he says is true.. I dont see the harm in killing on today.. N drohn tomorrow if he is lying.. But then again.. Drohn have been townie for a while.. Im kinda have the feeling that drohn will be deadly if porygon dies..


Anyway who is kronor

 

[SMP]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Missed the start of this.

Why in the world are we even debating on whether or not to lynch Drohn? He's a claimed Indie with a win condition that is different than the Members. He has literally zero reason to reveal who Porygon is since his win con needs Porygon alive. There's also nothing that says that when he gets a new role he gets a new win con.

Instead of killing KoN if there's a roleblocker they should target him tonight.

##vote: Drohn

 

[Drohn]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

He's a claimed Indie with a win condition that is different than the Members.

I know I messed up with my role. >_> I thought it was a town role. I'm new. PMJ tricked me with two roles in my PM.

As for why members are debating whom to lynch, it's probably because they know I can't do anything and you can lynch me whenever you want. There is a chance I'm being honest about KoN being the serial killer, which means you can avoid a threat tonight. It would make sense for me to try to get another role, since I blew the one I got. My win condition doesn't need Porygon alive; I would get a new role if Porygon got lynched. I could just be loyal to my alignment and lie to help grant get another town/wolf kill too.

At least I'm pretty sure after this nobody knows what to believe from me, so that may or may not help whoever's side I'm on.

I feel bad for the town, though, with 6 wolves and a serial killer out there.. On top of that there are less town to balance it out from not having enough sign ups. I'll be rooting for town from the grave. <3 (And just because I always want town to win doesn't mean I'm using that personal opinion to do less good in my role, although I messed up quite bad already.. >_> What I'm saying is that my opinion doesn't affect Porygon being who I said he is or not.)

Anyway, stuff are happening on Day 1, yay. I'll shut up now. Enjoy the rest of the game. <3

Spoiler

I really suck at this. Sorry for that.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Cobalt and Celever what do you have to say? Lurkers...

That feel when you leave for league and other things and don't have WiFi for the entire time. I just got home, so allow me to read the thread before giving an opinion. Okay?

@Theguy, to be honest, it's not like Drohn was around for "The Age of Kronar." That was like 2009-2011 ish. I highly doubt he researched the background to be able to forge a fake role description. I'm gonna hold off on voting for anyone until more evidence is presented.

I don't know what else you want...

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Machamp, are you even looking at the facts? Drohn just wants me dead to help his faction live that much longer. I pointed out that he was acting scummy, and he's taking me down as a result. Actually, if I had to guess, grant is Porygon. He was adamant about Drohn being scum until he actually claimed scum. Now he's sticking to Athena and defending Drohn.
My take on the subject.

However, it is safer for us to lynch you on a fairly confident lead than it is Grant. It is also possible that you, or the real Porygon or something, recruited grant N0. However, I do agree with you that grant's behaviour was scummy, and I would quite like to lynch him should you flip as town. Unfortunately though, Keeper, you got screwed over by Drohn no matter what your faction is, just because this is the logical play...

It is also safer for us to lynch the dangerous indie right now (Drohn). We know what he will flip while we have no idea what KoN will flip. Grant is insanely scummy as Celever said you are a safer lynch. However remember that Porygon is a SK (I believe Drohn's claim) he won't be able to recruit.

How can you think I acted scummy before I even got my role. >_> And I don't like being a wolf. I'm a vegetarian in real life and I wouldn't like eating humans either. We actually talked on Skype a while ago and I even told you I probably wouldn't sign up, because I don't like being a wolf and I don't like lying. It's when you discussed the idea of a shared account where the other player would play if I were to get a wolf role and I were to play if we would get a town account. Here:

Spoiler: conversation

It seemed like a fun game and since I'm in it I decided to sign up anyway. I didn't wait a long time with confirming to see others confirm (what would that even do and how would that help a wolf? They're confirmations of getting a PM, not role claims), I simply didn't check the forum yet. I have many other responsibilities that take more priority on this site.

Anyway, since that conversation happened before we even started this game you should know better than to think I'd get excited for a wolf role.

If you're looking for a good time, add Camdrohn on Skype. (Don't really add it if it exists, that's not my Skype, lol.)

^ I knew scum roles weren't for me.. I just didn't know I'd be so bad at it that I couldn't even recognise one.. >_> In my defence the role with 2 roles are confusing for a starting player (at least for me). Especially since it's an indie role and I thought indies always worked alone.

I guess there's not much sense anymore in trying to not get lynched since I already posted my own role.. ;-;

Sorry, Porygon. <3 Good luck, though.

The AtE...

Drohn is the lynch today. Since there are no seers I think there is probably a roleblocker or vig. I suggest shooting KoN today with your ability. Grant or Cobalt Phoenix are also scummy.

 

[WanderingWolf]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Grant or Cobalt Phoenix are also scummy.

Grant mainly. Although, he's done a bit of stupid stuff and been scumming in the past.

 

[Camoclone]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Grant or Cobalt Phoenix are also scummy.

Grant mainly. Although, he's done a bit of stupid stuff and been scumming in the past.

This... CP is my only other lead.

 

[alex]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Drohn has literally already told us he is not town like 3 times now, why aren't we lynching him exactly? Lynching KoN is simply a worse lynch, there is a much higher chance of unnecessarily lynching a town if we lynch KoN now, because lynching Drohn. Instead, we lynch Drohn, and his role PM should tell us whether or not Drohn is telling the truth about Keeper. Just roleblock Keeper tonight, and we will be able to kill 1 (and maybe 2) threats with no town deaths.

 

[Keeper of Night]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Spoiler

I kind of want to vote for Drohn just for being an Smod his response to Camo's vote.
Screenshot =/= desperate?

##UNEXPLODE: ATHENA

Oh yeah dumb me, we actually have a lead. Although Athena is still scum, you guys will probably not believe me right now. I sort of overlooked the fact that we're not totally in an RVS state but actually have some dirt on...

##FLEX: DROHN waitwhat, I mean: ##DISASSEMBLE: DROHN

Keeper's right. Drohn reacted so strongly to camoclone's (joking) accusation.

That double post tho
##UNVERB: Camoclone
##DOUBLEPOST: grantm1999

Stop voting yourself lol

Grant, you've done this before. Is it possible for you to share why you think (know?) Athena is scum? I mean, I think her first post was scummy too, but I guess I wrote it off as newb town.

Yes I have done stuff like this before and I often call ridiculous things correctly. I am not going to disclose my reasons why mainly because I don't have to.

-> People think you're a wolf for defending yourself against a claim. I give up.

1) Like keeper said, you kinda overreacted.
2) Camo's accusations were obviously made jokingly. They completely weren't serious. If you were a townie you would have realized that and not replied the way you did, but perhaps went along with it or ignored it.
3) Voting you in this situation is better than RVS no matter which way you put it.
4) Plus, you're a super mod

Oh, to be clear I agree with the logic about your overreaction and stuff. I apologise for bandwagoning today, I should be more active and focussed in the future!

Your defense is really weak. You didn't really respond to my points either.
Please claim now. Or not. I don't really care. You're probably going to get lynched anyway.

I was explaining myself by giving the reasons for saying what I said. I don't mind claiming at all. I don't know any of the people from my role so I'm not that excited about it. Maybe the game is focused on players of the past (before I joined) or maybe I just got unlucky.

Here's my PM, since we're allowed to c/p:

Role: Kronar
Alignment: Porygon

You are Kronar, a member of PokeBeach Forums. Porygon once made your face an icon for his chat room and for some unexplainable reason, you have been obsessed with him ever since. You would do anything to make him proud.

Passive Effect: Secret Admirer
You know that Porygon is in the game as a serial killer. (His identity will be sent in a separate PM.) He does not know your identity, nor does he know you are aligned with him. You are not allowed to converse with him privately. If Porygon dies, you will receive a new role PM, but you will lose your safe claim.

Win Condition: Porygon-aligned players outnumber all other players

Here is your safe claim. Anyone who tries to see your role PM will see this instead:

Role: Kronar
Alignment: Members

You are Kronar, a member of PokeBeach Forums. You joined when you heard WPM was trying to popularize your catch phrase, "I WILL END YOU," so you've decided it's time he was ended.

Of course, there's no way to go about that without everyone knowing it was you, so you're just gonna be lazy and only use your vote.

Win Condition: All non-Members eliminated

Grant I already said that I had limited activity atm. Also, for one to be a "lurker" one must be viewing the thread.

Yeah, ok. At the time, it said you were viewing the thread so w/e.

UNDISASSEMBLE: DROHN
Do we believe this claim? I'm not sure, it's extremely clever if it's fake tbh. If this is a true claim, then Drohn is no threat to the town. It seems that he becomes a townie if Porygon (not Porygon-X?) dies, and we need to eliminate the serial killer either way.

Also lol Athena scum (every post!) BLACKBALLISTA: ATHENA

Guys what do you think about Drohn's claim?

What? I'm so confused now. Drohn becomes town when we kill the SK right? He's a vanilla indie right now. Of course we'll lynch him if nothing more conclusive turns up, but it's not favorable for us to have him lynched.

That all is assuming his claim is true, of course.

Crap, ignore my last post, i was being stupid. Drohn is confo-town if his claim is accurate. We shouldn't lynch him.

Pulled a Kecleon? what? This is confusing, why are we lynching Drohn? He's harmless, and we need the SK to die before we win either way. Drohn's role claim (if it's true) basically says that he turns into a townie if Poryon dies, which we need to happen regardless of anything else.

The main question is: Is Drohn's claim true???

While the argument could be made that since he's not currently aligned with us, he would be working against us, this is illogical. If Drohn's claim is true, then he should be helping us find and kill Porygon the SK so he becomes town, as the town's wincon is easier to fulfill than Drohn's current one.

Is anyone understanding what I'm trying to say?

I want to believe that Drohn will become town after "Porygon" dies... But I don't. The fact that he "loses his safe claim" makes that much obvious. Obviously, as VT, he wouldn't need one, but he wouldn't need to be told that if it wouldn't matter anyway.
I agree with Teal. If Porygon dies, Drohn could become a serial killer himself.

Honestly, it boils down to:
1) Grant thinks both Athena and Drohn are scum.
2) Drohn claims indie (helper).
3) Grant is proven correct on one of his claims, and immediately backs off.

Why? Just... Why?
Athena hasn't done anything other than "try to fit in." I can easily see her as flipping wolf, but I can also see her being inexperienced town. Either way, Drohn is the obviously better lynch today. He isn't town, didn't even claim town, and could potentially become a threat later. He could also become town, but is it worth taking that chance? I don't think so...

You're supposed to be on my side. >.>

I'm not sided with the indies, sorry. I think you are a good lynch for today.

We can find out by lynching Keeper of Night. If you're not pleased by his role reveal in the morning you can go after me. I assumed I would become VT from his lynch, but we don't know until that happens. You already got me so you can either give me a chance and help me find out what I become next (I hope VT) or lynch me even though I can't do anything.. I'll claim as soon as Porygon is lynched (that's when I know my new role myself).

Werewolf 21
To: Drohn

The role of Porygon is being played by Keeper of Night. Good luck.

---

C/p from PMJ. ^ The possibility of me becoming town is my last shot, but I'd rather take it than nothing at all. If it works you get a new town. If it doesn't at least you lynched the serial killer.

---

##UNKILL: ATHENA
##BURN: KEEPER OF NIGHT

Keep forgetting the hashtags.

I see what's going on here.
I pointed out that Drohn was bad, and he want to take me down with him.

@Camo, you'll have to take my word on it. No, I am not Porygon. I don't even know who the guy is (unless it's Porygon-X).

Werewolf 21
To: Drohn

The role of Porygon is being played by Keeper of Night. Good luck.

Fake.

I can see how this add sup though, and it is very clever.
However, the only member who actually retracted his vote after Drohn revealed was grantm. I don't think he'll become town after Porygon dies, and my alignment isn't "Porygon", so I don't really care about him.

My role is Eron, btw, if that helps. (Which I know it doesn't, since there are fake-claims, but you know, it's here anyway because there's no harm in people knowing.)

And now not only does grant un-vote Drohn, but he votes the person who want him lynched.
There is a downside to voting me grant (unless you're Porygon), but you won't know that yet.

I'm sticking to voting Drohn, because as I said before, we know he isn't town and there isn't a downside to voting him.
Grant, why is voting me (who has a chance to be town) any better than voting Drohn (who has a much lower chance of being town)? I'm very curious to hear your answer.

And now not only does grant un-vote Drohn, but he votes the person who want him lynched.
There is a downside to voting me grant (unless you're Porygon), but you won't know that yet.

I'm sticking to voting Drohn, because as I said before, we know he isn't town and there isn't a downside to voting him.
Grant, why is voting me (who has a chance to be town) any better than voting Drohn (who has a much lower chance of being town)? I'm very curious to hear your answer.

All the ninja's... Sorry I have to double post . Last time I checked Athena hasn't said she wanted to lynch Grant that was me. The bolded part feels weird to me as well. Right now I'm thinking you > grant (tomorrow of course) but...

Because you're the only one who actually asked instead of jumping the wagon?

I don't think lynching you today is a good idea. Get rid of the confo indie so we don't have to do it later.

@Keeper of Night/Porygon: I don't know who the "real" Porygon or Kronar are either. That doesn't change we got their roles.

The fact that you keep bringing it up just shows how desperate you are.

@Kon: I'm desperate 'cause I want my new role and you have to be lynched for that to happen.

I feel like everyone voting to me is either Wolf or also Porygon aligned. Why would someone from the town let a serial killer live to lynch someone that is no threat at all? You get confirmation in the morning if he gets lynched. If you don't, you can still go after me.

1) We do not know that Keeper of Night is Porygon
2) We do not know that Porygon is a serial killer
3) We do know that at the current moment Drohn is not town
4) We do not know that Drohn will become town if Porygon is lynched. Imho, this seems fairly unlikely. I have never heard of a role that would switch win conditions like that

Drohn is obviously the safer lynch. If we do lynch Drohn and it turns out that he was telling the complete truth, and there is a serial killer kill tonight. then after that we lynch Keeper of Night.

My alignment shouldn't be of any concern, since you have my whole role and know I can't do any harm. I feel like the people voting for me are either also Porygon aligned or wolves. Why would you keep a serial killer over me? What reason do I have to lie? The role change is my only chance of still being able to stay in the game. My win condition will change if Porygon is lynched.

See this type of post just makes you look even more suspect. We do not know your whole role, and we certainly do not know that you can't do any harm. You have every reason to lie.

##RIP Drohn

You and your porygon friends are going down.

I don't think you get the point of what I'm saying. I need the role change, that is why I need Porygon to get lynched.

How can you think I acted scummy before I even got my role. >_> And I don't like being a wolf. I'm a vegetarian in real life and I wouldn't like eating humans either. We actually talked on Skype a while ago and I even told you I probably wouldn't sign up, because I don't like being a wolf and I don't like lying. It's when you discussed the idea of a shared account where the other player would play if I were to get a wolf role and I were to play if we would get a town account. Here:

Spoiler: conversation

It seemed like a fun game and since I'm in it I decided to sign up anyway. I didn't wait a long time with confirming to see others confirm (what would that even do and how would that help a wolf? They're confirmations of getting a PM, not role claims), I simply didn't check the forum yet. I have many other responsibilities that take more priority on this site.

Anyway, since that conversation happened before we even started this game you should know better than to think I'd get excited for a wolf role.

If you're looking for a good time, add Camdrohn on Skype. (Don't really add it if it exists, that's not my Skype, lol.)

^ I knew scum roles weren't for me.. I just didn't know I'd be so bad at it that I couldn't even recognise one.. >_> In my defence the role with 2 roles are confusing for a starting player (at least for me). Especially since it's an indie role and I thought indies always worked alone.

I guess there's not much sense anymore in trying to not get lynched since I already posted my own role.. ;-;

Sorry, Porygon. <3 Good luck, though.

Sorry, Porygon. <3 Good luck, though.

So...
You supposedly reveal Porygon (me) and then wish him luck?
That's believable.

I feel like Drohn is just grasping at straws by throwing out Keeper's name. I'd rather lynch somebody who's pretty much confirmed to be anti-town than risk killing a townie.

##Snuggle: Drohn

General question for everyone that is following Drohn's lead and voting KoN: Why do you actually believe Drohn is telling the truth?

He's a claimed Indie with a win condition that is different than the Members.

I know I messed up with my role. >_> I thought it was a town role. I'm new. PMJ tricked me with two roles in my PM.

As for why members are debating whom to lynch, it's probably because they know I can't do anything and you can lynch me whenever you want. There is a chance I'm being honest about KoN being the serial killer, which means you can avoid a threat tonight. It would make sense for me to try to get another role, since I blew the one I got. My win condition doesn't need Porygon alive; I would get a new role if Porygon got lynched. I could just be loyal to my alignment and lie to help grant get another town/wolf kill too.

At least I'm pretty sure after this nobody knows what to believe from me, so that may or may not help whoever's side I'm on.

I feel bad for the town, though, with 6 wolves and a serial killer out there.. On top of that there are less town to balance it out from not having enough sign ups. I'll be rooting for town from the grave. <3 (And just because I always want town to win doesn't mean I'm using that personal opinion to do less good in my role, although I messed up quite bad already.. >_> What I'm saying is that my opinion doesn't affect Porygon being who I said he is or not.)

Anyway, stuff are happening on Day 1, yay. I'll shut up now. Enjoy the rest of the game. <3
I really suck at this. Sorry for that.

---

Drohn, why didn't you say I was the SK earlier? Why wait that long if it was the truth?

 

[Kecleon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Instead of killing KoN if there's a roleblocker they should target him tonight.

##vote: Drohn

^ I agree with this sentiment.

Also, I have found a discrepancy between what Drohn is saying and his role. Drohn's role says that he does not know who the Serial Killer is, right? And that means it would be absolute ludicrous for him to get a [legitimate] PM with the identity of the SK in it. For that alone, I'm going to go ahead and:

##PRONOUNCE: Drohn

 

[Cobalt Phoenix]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Instead of killing KoN if there's a roleblocker they should target him tonight.

I can agree with that. Drohn, I'm sorry. I kinda have to go with the majority here. There's a lot of evidence pulling me towards ya.
##Lynch: Drohn

Can we get a vote count?

 

[Kecleon-X]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Oops, sorry, forgot to unvote:

##Unpneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis: Athena

##PRONOUNCE: Drohn

 

[Keeper of Night]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

As much as I hate to do this:

Drohn's role says that he does not know who the Serial Killer is, right?

Drohn's role actually states that he does know the identity of Porygon, which is what makes his claim against me somewhat believable.

 

[Drohn]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

There's a lot of evidence pulling me towards ya.
##Lynch: Drohn

Yea .. I posted the evidence myself without knowing it was a scum role.. >.< No hard feelings. I get that I'll get voted out. It's the logical thing to do.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

Game freeze. Update forthcoming

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Day 1 ends May 18 at 9 PM CDT.

End Day 1.

Final vote count:

Camoclone: 1 (Machamp The Champion WanderingWolf, Scorched Feathers, alex)
Cobalt Phoenix: 0 (Celever)
LYNCHED Drohn: 13 (Camoclone Camoclone, GM DracLord grantm1999, Keeper of Night, Teal Scorched Feathers alex, TheGuy WanderingWolf, Jeremy1026, Cinesra, Athena, rev3rsor, SMP, Kecleon-X, Cobalt Phoenix)
WanderingWolf: 0 (Camoclone Athena)
L-4 Keeper of Night: 8 (Scorched Feathers grantm1999, Teal, Drohn, Scorched Feathers, TheGuy, Machamp The Champion, Celever, sillykyle)
Athena: 0 (Kecleon-X grantm1999))
Kecleon-X: 1 (Porygon-X)
Jeremy1026: 1 (sillykyle)
grantm1999: 0 (Scorched Feathers)

Not voting: 1 (Professor Palutena)

Day 1

Everyone was talking about who would be the first sacrifice. Drohn let slip that he was evil and they reported him. WPM swooped down from the heavens and banned him on sight, revealing his true identity:

Role: Kronar
Alignment: Porygon

You are Kronar, a member of PokeBeach Forums. Porygon once made your face an icon for his chat room and for some unexplainable reason, you have been obsessed with him ever since. You would do anything to make him proud.

Passive Effect: Secret Admirer
You know that Porygon is in the game as a serial killer. (His identity will be sent in a separate PM.) He does not know your identity, nor does he know you are aligned with him. You are not allowed to converse with him privately. If Porygon dies, you will receive a new role PM, but you will lose your safe claim.

Win Condition: Porygon-aligned players outnumber all other players

The thread was then locked for the night.

Start Night 1. Deadline: May 17, 3 PM CDT.

If you aren't submitting an action, please submit no action to speed up the process. The night may end early if I get everyone's actions (yeah right, this has never happened ever).

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Night 1 ends May 17 at 3 PM CDT.

As an aside: death flips will never have safe claims in them.

Thanks everyone for being active (except one of you, bet you guys can guess who). He must message me during the night or he will be subbed out.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Night 1 ends May 17 at 3 PM CDT.

Update in about an hour. Thanks for your patience, everypony.

 

[PMJ]

RE: Werewolf XXI: The Members' Revolt. Night 1 ends May 17 at 3 PM CDT.

End Night 1.

Night 1

WPM cackled with glee. It was so wonderful to be webmaster. He talked to his team of super mods and asked who he should ban.

"I thought you were leaving it up to them?" Drohn asked.

"QUIET FUEL" said WPM. As if to prove his point, he decided to ban grantm1999, revealing his true identity:

Role: Scorched Feathers
Alignment: Members

You are Scorched Feathers, a member of PokeBeach Forums. You've tasted the power that moderation brings, and you agree that the mods really need to be brought down a peg.

Unfortunately, because you are so obsessed with Fletchling to get anything done, you have no abilities other than your vote. Now get out there and make the members proud!

Win Condition: All non-Members eliminated

"Now get out there and convince them to ban each other!" WPM said triumphantly.

So they did.

Elsewhere, someone else had hacked into Admin CP. He saw the thread where everyone was posting, and decided to take matters into his own hands. His first victim would be none other than grantm1999. He clicked on his profile, went to press ban, and... found he was already banned.

Oh.

Confident he wouldn't be found out, he signed out and went to join the group in the game thread.

Start Day 2. Deadline: May 22, 12 PM CDT.

Players alive: 20 (11 to lynch.)

An anonymous message was posted:

Spoiler

Lynch Grant, CP or KoN tomorrow unless something drastic happens. Look at how CB hammered. And how he didn't have enough reasons at first but now he does. Nothing changed.

Professor Palutena is forcibly subbed out for Haunted Water.