Finished Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - The Order of the Phoenix is the Winner!

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RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Responding to bbninjas:

When I said TT and MtC were tunneling, I used the wrong terminology. No, they weren't tunneling. As I was saying before, "I just singled him and MtC out because they are both experienced players who I believe should have some more common sense". I admit I didn't mean tunneling, I apologize for the confusion.

As to your second point, I never actually said Teal having a QT makes Teal more likely to be town. I said there was a "huge chance" that Teal could possibly be a very important character. If there were 6 scum (random guesses, I have to say that because people will jump at my throat) and 3 townie with QTs (when the number could very well be higher, I'm going off the assumption that Harry Potter theme has got the 3 main characters in a QT), then there is 1/3 chance that Teal is a townie, IF WE ASSUME TEAL EVEN HAS A QT AND IS NOT GOING OFF STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF PAST WEREWOLF GAMES. To me, that 1/3 chance is still a "huge" chance, considering there could be even more townies in a QT. There is a higher chance, from what we know, that if someone has a QT they are scum. I'm not arguing that logic, I agree with it. I'm saying is it worth the chance? Especially because Teal is also an active player, and losing an active (and intelligent player) on Day 1 is unfortunate.

If you say it is worth the chance, then by all means vote for him, IF you're willing to ignore that it is more likely he was making an educated guess on how QTs work in WW games. I'm NOT willing to ignore that.

I'm also confused as to why because I'm defending the logic behind Teal's thoughts, I'm suddenly a target. At this point it seems like you disagree with my opinion? My flawed logic as you say, which as I explain in this post is just opinion on risk vs. reward, should not sway an apparently more likely lynch target to me. Unless of course, the initial lynch target wasn't that good of a target to begin with...which is what I've been trying to explain the whole time.

I have nothing against you bbninjas. Here's exactly what I said:

"Bbninjas is all over the place and unfortunately I'm not getting a good read because he plays this way a lot. I've seen him as town (I think?) and scum so this is pretty standard. Still, I'm getting weird vibes from him. Just gut feelings, don't have much to back it up."

You were posting a ridiculous amount. You generally always play that way, but not that hardcore, so I couldn't get a good read on you. I said I've seen you as both town and scum and so the way you've played didn't really reveal much. So, to top it all off, I explained how I just don't know what to think of you. Never did I say I thought you were scum, just that I didn't have ANY read on you. At this point in the game, I think you're town. You also post a lot and provide activity, so without any hard proof of you being anti-town, it would be a very bad move to vote you. I said once after in a later post how I'd rather not vote for Teal OR you.

I missed that post about TT. He's pretty open about it. If anybody knows Harry Potter lore and how it could connect to weighted votes, maybe that could give us some insight on who he is, although because there's multiple people with weight, it wouldn't be very conclusive.

All in all, I'm frustrated because I feel like nobody is understanding what I'm trying to say. Maybe I'm not explaining it well. If there's still confusion on my logic of Teal more likely making an educated guess rather than being in a QT, then I'll try to explain again. If you simply disagree and choose to ignore that and think all the assumptions and all the risk vs. reward are indeed worth it, then at this point there's not much I can do and you should vote for Teal. All I'm trying to do is explain the possibilities and my opinion on them, and I won't change my vote simply to join the wagon on Teal.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Lenny is scum. I get a day 1 read once in awhile, when I do I'm right. Also yeah I know my vote weight is increased jsyk. If you look at Lenny's posts you will know he is scum.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

This is what I wanted to see. A bit more explaining.

Lenny said:
Responding to bbninjas:

When I said TT and MtC were tunneling, I used the wrong terminology. No, they weren't tunneling. As I was saying before, "I just singled him and MtC out because they are both experienced players who I believe should have some more common sense". I admit I didn't mean tunneling, I apologize for the confusion.

Fine with me; you did use 'tunneling' so...

As to your second point, I never actually said Teal having a QT makes Teal more likely to be town. I said there was a "huge chance" that Teal could possibly be a very important character. If there were 6 scum (random guesses, I have to say that because people will jump at my throat) and 3 townie with QTs (when the number could very well be higher, I'm going off the assumption that Harry Potter theme has got the 3 main characters in a QT), then there is 1/3 chance that Teal is a townie, IF WE ASSUME TEAL EVEN HAS A QT AND IS NOT GOING OFF STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF PAST WEREWOLF GAMES. To me, that 1/3 chance is still a "huge" chance, considering there could be even more townies in a QT. There is a higher chance, from what we know, that if someone has a QT they are scum. I'm not arguing that logic, I agree with it. I'm saying is it worth the chance? Especially because Teal is also an active player, and losing an active (and intelligent player) on Day 1 is unfortunate.
Honestly, I was pointing against how what you said about Teal having a higher chance of being Town then scum was inaccurate. I'm not too keen about Teal being lynched Day 1 either.

If you say it is worth the chance, then by all means vote for him, IF you're willing to ignore that it is more likely he was making an educated guess on how QTs work in WW games. I'm NOT willing to ignore that.
I have made my point before that the assumptions that Teal made would be nearly the same as mine. However, Teal seemed to be more 'knowledgable' in the way he said, which is what sparked attention

I'm also confused as to why because I'm defending the logic behind Teal's thoughts, I'm suddenly a target. At this point it seems like you disagree with my opinion? My flawed logic as you say, which as I explain in this post is just opinion on risk vs. reward, should not sway an apparently more likely lynch target to me. Unless of course, the initial lynch target wasn't that good of a target to begin with...which is what I've been trying to explain the whole time.
I have targeted you not because you have been defending Teal, but because of how you defended Teal, and defending may not even be the right word. What you use to 'defend' him (how Teal is more likely Town then Scum), IMO, was flawed and that was the problem. And yes, I never thought Teal was very good target, and now I'm 50-50 with you.

I have nothing against you bbninjas. Here's exactly what I said:

"Bbninjas is all over the place and unfortunately I'm not getting a good read because he plays this way a lot. I've seen him as town (I think?) and scum so this is pretty standard. Still, I'm getting weird vibes from him. Just gut feelings, don't have much to back it up."

Good, because I don't have anything against you either. However ^ post didn't - and still doesn't - make sense to me and completely confuses me. How can you NOT get good reads if I play this way a lot? That doesn't make sense. Then you go and use the word 'still', implying that something (that I can't find) in that sentence says 'this is his normal play and that is townie'.

You were posting a ridiculous amount. You generally always play that way, but not that hardcore, so I couldn't get a good read on you. I said I've seen you as both town and scum and so the way you've played didn't really reveal much. So, to top it all off, I explained how I just don't know what to think of you. Never did I say I thought you were scum, just that I didn't have ANY read on you. At this point in the game, I think you're town. You also post a lot and provide activity, so without any hard proof of you being anti-town, it would be a very bad move to vote you. I said once after in a later post how I'd rather not vote for Teal OR you.

Not that hardcore? Day 1 in WWXXIII was much quieter for me than it probably would have be because I was low on internet and couldn't check as often; and using a phone made things 10x harder. What you said is 'unfortunately I have not got a good read'. Now this, I'm pretty sure, is confusing me. This can be interpreted two ways:
  • I haven't been able to get a strong read on bbninjas
  • Unfortunately I have not got a good read (i.e. anti-town) on bbninjas
Please confirm which one it is. This may just clear things up.


I missed that post about TT. He's pretty open about it. If anybody knows Harry Potter lore and how it could connect to weighted votes, maybe that could give us some insight on who he is, although because there's multiple people with weight, it wouldn't be very conclusive.
I'm starting to wonder if the vote weights are in the Independent group. However, I know next to nothing about HP, and depending on if a) TT's claim is believable b) Who TT's claim actually is, canonically, then this idea could be inaccurate.

All in all, I'm frustrated because I feel like nobody is understanding what I'm trying to say. Maybe I'm not explaining it well. If there's still confusion on my logic of Teal more likely making an educated guess rather than being in a QT, then I'll try to explain again. If you simply disagree and choose to ignore that and think all the assumptions and all the risk vs. reward are indeed worth it, then at this point there's not much I can do and you should vote for Teal. All I'm trying to do is explain the possibilities and my opinion on them, and I won't change my vote simply to join the wagon on Teal.
Bolded.
Lenny has nearly cleared on all of my questions so I'm close to jumping off him, for at least these reasons. I just need that confirmation on the confusing/misunderstandable post (see above for dotpoints).

Now if I do jump off, I have fairly small idea on who should be voted for, and I do not think Teal or myself should be lynched. If Teal is right in those group of paragraphs, then I'm looking at MtC. If he is experienced, and Teal is right, then why is he trying to get active, experienced Teal lynched (Day 1 no less)? Maybe MtC is a better lynch... but won't that be as equally detrimental as lynching Teal (experienced + active)?

Now, something I find weird:

Bigfoot claims he has a lead on Drac.
Drac claims he has a hunch on Bigfoot
Grant claims he has a lead/hunch on Lenny.
Drohn claims he can prove Teal is clean.

On Day 1? Is that normal?

And I believe these two are yet to post:
xDoggerx
Haunted Water

Grant, I'm more inclined to believe you are scum because you are not telling as WHY. Be helpful, not confusing.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Also Luis, could you update the OP with this update please?
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-active-werewolf-xxiv-the-wizarding-war-day-1-will-end-on-december-17th-23-59-gmt?page=5
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

bbninjas said:
Also Luis, could you update the OP with this update please?
http://www.pokebeach.com/forums/thread-active-werewolf-xxiv-the-wizarding-war-day-1-will-end-on-december-17th-23-59-gmt?page=5

On my way to bed now, but I'll do it tomorrow. ;) Meant to do it anyways... :p
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

I wish i could clear out what i meant about the hunch... But this hunch is not about bigfoot is a scum rather then i felt like bigfoot has an access to QT
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

GM DracLord said:
I wish i could clear out what i meant about the hunch... But this hunch is not about bigfoot is a scum rather then i felt like bigfoot has an access to QT

Aah... that makes sense.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Well, I do not have double weight vote.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

bbninjas said:
GM DracLord said:
I wish i could clear out what i meant about the hunch... But this hunch is not about bigfoot is a scum rather then i felt like bigfoot has an access to QT

Aah... that makes sense.
Glad it satisfy you..

I have read the potter books and watch all the movie.. So i do belive there is multiple group.. But i'm not quite sure how many..
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

PMJ said:
I was a little confused as to what post MTC was referring to when he said he didn't like rev's post, because rev only posted an in post and "hey this game is HP" and I didn't see anything wrong with that at first glance, but based on context clues from others I figure that has to be the post he's referring to. Is MTC trying to goad a response out of him? MTC's response to bbninjas (p 106) leads me to believe it's a legit lead and not just RVS, but his lead is sketchy even by day one standards. Or perhaps MTC knows something and is leaving a bread crumb for us to find later? I dunno. Either way, it's day one, and I'm not going to put stock into anything right now.

Yes, that was the post I was referring to. It was still very early in the day, and I wanted to spark discussion. I never wanted to lynch rev over that 1 silly post. I said it in a totally serious way to get more responses out of people. Same thing with the other 2 lynches - I said them in a totally serious manner to get a better response. Why would someone react poorly to a vote they know isn't serious? With Teal and Celever, I do somewhat suspect them of being wolves, but being day 1, my leads are almost definitely going to be wrong.

bbninjas said:
Machamp The Champion said:
-snip-
I don't understand the suspicion towards Lenny. His posts seem insightful and generally helpful for the town.
-snip-
The problem with his 'insightful and generally helpful' posts are that they are generally flawed logically. Anyhow, I'm asking you experienced players if this is Lenny's norm play since I haven't really seen his.

This is pretty normal for Lenny. Day 1, or any other day, really.

Teal said:
I actually originally wrote a much longer response to this post (my response was this).

In the end I decided to shorten it down to what I posted because I thought the original post might be helpful for the wolves too. I tried to get the point across after that post but it didn't seem to work.

Seeing as the players here still don't seem to understand how really Werewolf works, I feel like I should just post what I wrote up at first. So please enjoy, and read it with a lot of thought (ofc I had saved it in Word in case I would decide to post it after all like I did now):
Scum (almost) never nightkills inactives.

Lynching inactives without giving them a chance for defending would be scummy. Otherwise, going for inactives is not a bad thing because if scum kills the active players, that leads to the game being full of inactives, which will make leading the town a lot easier, and pretty much secures a scum win.

In that sense, either activating everyone or getting rid of inactives benefits the town more than scum, when we assume that inactives have the regular chances of being town/scum.

I have "always" been supporting, and will always fully support keeping all active players around until day 4-ish with no exceptions unless there is real evidence. That means that I will not support active player lynches like Camoclone, bbninjas or Celever earlygame, unless there is solid (and I really mean solid) proof they are anti-town. By lynching active players, as long as they are town, we help scum immensly. The only way for a town to win is by:
- Consisting of active and knowlegeable players lategame
- Having investigative results lategame

The real scum win condition is thus:
- eliminate active and knowledgeable town players
- eliminate investigative roles

Even if they happen to be scum, not lynching these actives early results in the town having a lot more words-from-the-wolves-material to go off after they are lynched. Words-from-the-wolves should be rechecked for hints once they flip - with anti-buddying in mind.

My posts so far are mostly meta, and you just have to deal with it. If that makes me scummy, I can only say "ok".

PS.: Yes, I just coined two new terms. Words-from-the-wolves and anti-buddying.
WFW = What confirmed wolves said while they were alive, the stances they took towards people. After a wolf flips his WFW should be checked.
Anti-buddying = A common wolf action, wolves attacking wolves earlygame to appear as if they weren't on the same side if WFW are checked later (or just to leave an impression). Somewhat related to WIFOM, but can still possibly be caught.

Since OMGUS is so popular even though I disagree with what it actually means, I will also gift you DLAE - "don't lynch the actives earlygame" - to make my point clear. (Scum will eventually kill them anyway to achieve their win condition.)

Please have fun with tearing appart this post.

To be perfectly honest, I'm probably not making the correct play by pushing for your lynch. You're right: it's not a good idea to lynch active players this early. But, I was getting a pretty wolfy vibe from your posts, and if I get a vibe from someone, I will follow that lead as far as I can. However, this post seems very town-like, so I may back off of you for now.

Lenny said:
As to your second point, I never actually said Teal having a QT makes Teal more likely to be town. I said there was a "huge chance" that Teal could possibly be a very important character. If there were 6 scum (random guesses, I have to say that because people will jump at my throat) and 3 townie with QTs (when the number could very well be higher, I'm going off the assumption that Harry Potter theme has got the 3 main characters in a QT), then there is 1/3 chance that Teal is a townie, IF WE ASSUME TEAL EVEN HAS A QT AND IS NOT GOING OFF STATISTICAL ANALYSIS OF PAST WEREWOLF GAMES. To me, that 1/3 chance is still a "huge" chance, considering there could be even more townies in a QT. There is a higher chance, from what we know, that if someone has a QT they are scum. I'm not arguing that logic, I agree with it. I'm saying is it worth the chance? Especially because Teal is also an active player, and losing an active (and intelligent player) on Day 1 is unfortunate.

Assuming those odds are correct, they are VERY good odds of getting what we want. 2/3 chance of getting scum, and 1/3 chance of getting a Mason? I would take that any day. Assuming the 3 main characters are Masons, their roles are probably pretty weak outside of that power, so accidentally lynching one of them probably wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. But again, those odds are VERY good, so I wouldn't worry about that too much.

Looking at Lenny's posts again, some of them seem a bit scummy, but I don't have that strong of a lead on him. I'd be fine with his lynch, but I think we can find someone better.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Oh wait, lol.

I have a double weight. Just checked my role again.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

GM DracLord said:
bbninjas said:
Aah... that makes sense.
Glad it satisfy you..

I have read the potter books and watch all the movie.. So i do belive there is multiple group.. But i'm not quite sure how many..

What types of groups are there? Both independent groups and town groups?

Machamp The Champion said:
-snip-

Teal said:

To be perfectly honest, I'm probably not making the correct play by pushing for your lynch. You're right: it's not a good idea to lynch active players this early. But, I was getting a pretty wolfy vibe from your posts, and if I get a vibe from someone, I will follow that lead as far as I can. However, this post seems very town-like, so I may back off of you for now.

-snip-

Looking at Lenny's posts again, some of them seem a bit scummy, but I don't have that strong of a lead on him. I'd be fine with his lynch, but I think we can find someone better.

Why are you saying that you're happy with Lenny's lynch although both Teal and/or myself are on the majority? At this rate Lenny is not getting lynched, but instead one of us are. ATM I finding you and Lenny pretty good lynches, Lenny I would prefer as he is not as active as you are. Though I guess we could go with Teal and see how it goes... but I'm not convinced.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

GM DracLord said:
I wish i could clear out what i meant about the hunch... But this hunch is not about bigfoot is a scum rather then i felt like bigfoot has an access to QT

Welp, this confirms what I have on you so far, so thankyou for that.
If we want to lynch an Independent today, I'd suggest Drac. Otherwise I'm quite happy to sit on my lead and grow some information from it. As long as Drac's alive, it's veeeeeeerry easy for me to get information from his faction.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

GM DracLord said:
bbninjas said:
Aah... that makes sense.
Glad it satisfy you..

I have read the potter books and watch all the movie.. So i do belive there is multiple group.. But i'm not quite sure how many..

BigfootAUS said:
GM DracLord said:
I wish i could clear out what i meant about the hunch... But this hunch is not about bigfoot is a scum rather then i felt like bigfoot has an access to QT

Welp, this confirms what I have on you so far, so thankyou for that.
If we want to lynch an Independent today, I'd suggest Drac. Otherwise I'm quite happy to sit on my lead and grow some information from it. As long as Drac's alive, it's veeeeeeerry easy for me to get information from his faction.

Do you have any information you would like to tell us? It may help if we know what type of info you receive so we can decide to keep Drac alive.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Ignore Drac's post there; I forgot to clear the posts marked 'quote'. :/
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Sure. I get one random post from the Independent quicktopic at night.

As of this moment here's what I've learned:
- Independents are called 'Revolutionaries'
- Independents are based on Harry Potter in-universe werewolves (scum are Death Eaters, not werewolves!!)
- One Independent character is named Fenrir
- The Independents don't know their Harry Potter very well
- The wording from the hosts makes it seem like there is only one Independent Faction
- Drac's spelling/grammar is easily identifiable as his. (My lead on Drac stems from the spelling/grammar of the post I gleaned.)

Luis, we're allowed to quote any PMs from the host, right? I can't see any rule against it.
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

BigfootAUS said:
Sure. I get one random post from the Independent quicktopic at night.

As of this moment here's what I've learned:
- Independents are called 'Revolutionaries'
- Independents are based on Harry Potter in-universe werewolves (scum are Death Eaters, not werewolves!!)
- One Independent character is named Fenrir
- The Independents don't know their Harry Potter very well
- The wording from the hosts makes it seem like there is only one Independent Faction
- Drac's spelling/grammar is easily identifiable as his. (My lead on Drac stems from the spelling/grammar of the post I gleaned.)

Luis, we're allowed to quote any PMs from the host, right? I can't see any rule against it.

That makes sense. Very nice Bigfoot. Do you know what the Win Condition is?
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

No idea. Unless I strike gold and catch a player posting their role in their quicktopic, I don't think I'll ever find out for sure (since we have our wincons in our role PMs).

If I had to guess, I'd say it's something to do with outnumbering other factions solely due to Fenrir existing - Fenrir worked for Voldemort, but had an ulterior motive that involved converting as many people into werewolves as possible. He had his own group (Snatchers) to specifically kidnap and convert people and raise them as proper werewolves. Voldemort just viewed them as bodies for his army, so he didn't care.

Yay for being a Harry Potter nerd~
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Ah, so Drac's an independent? I think that's a pretty good reason to lynch him.

BigfootAUS said:
GM DracLord said:
I wish i could clear out what i meant about the hunch... But this hunch is not about bigfoot is a scum rather then i felt like bigfoot has an access to QT

Welp, this confirms what I have on you so far, so thankyou for that.
If we want to lynch an Independent today, I'd suggest Drac. Otherwise I'm quite happy to sit on my lead and grow some information from it. As long as Drac's alive, it's veeeeeeerry easy for me to get information from his faction.

Well, now that they know you have access to their QT, they're going to be very careful with what they say in their QT. Thus, having Drac alive won't be that useful. Or would killing Drac remove your connection to their faction entirely?
 
RE: Werewolf XXIV: The Wizarding War - Day 1 will end on December 17th, 23:59 GMT

Machamp The Champion said:
Well, now that they know you have access to their QT, they're going to be very careful with what they say in their QT. Thus, having Drac alive won't be that useful. Or would killing Drac remove your connection to their faction entirely?

BigfootAUS said:
Sure. I get one random post from the Independent quicktopic at night.
They can't control what I see - I could potentially see anything they've previously posted in their quicktopic.
So sure, if they cut down on posting I won't get much 'new' information. But if they cut down on posting, it's more and more likely I'll catch one of their early posts - the posts where faction partners are more likely to have shared roles with each other. That's pretty good in my eyes.

Machamp The Champion said:
Ah, so Drac's an independent? I think that's a pretty good reason to lynch him.
I've never had to deal with 'bad' Independents - do they deserve more priority than scum, or is it just that it's a decent lead to go on for so early in the game?
 
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