Finished Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Town Win!

[Mr.Muffin]

If all else fails we are getting rid of a player who has done multiple stupid things.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Okay. Celever and BigfootAUS are both guilty of rolefishing. While BigFootAUS admitted to it Celever pretended like it never happened.

OOOOOOHHH BOY! KoN and Celever have been buddying way too hard all game. Isn't it funny when Celever was in a pickle his buddy came to defend him. This is really suspicious.

##VOTE:CELEVER

I predict Celever/KoN are scum. I think Celever faked his claim.

I can't say why he decided to defend me yesterday, but I'm questioning any votes placed on a claimed townie, who we practically accepted as town yesterday due to his win-con differing from the OP basically confirming his alignment, for certain.

 

[Keeper of Night]

If all else fails we are getting rid of a player who has done multiple stupid things.

Trying to justify voting a townie?

 

[Mr.Muffin]

It is either you or him. You have both acted completely scummy this whole game.

If you don't want me to vote for someone who claimed town(not proven) then okay.

##UNVOTE:CELEVER
##VOTE:KEEPER OF NIGHT

If you don't flip scum then I have no problem being killed day 3. I think you being town is highly unlikely. If you are I am completely confused on this game/world.

 

[Keeper of Night]

And... What makes me likely to be scum? Because I'm siding with a claimed town?

 

[WanderingWolf]

Uh... what exactly is happening? Celever, literally the first person to claim and have a role precisely like the first dead person, Camoclone is being voted for? Guys, take Celevers word for now, especially since he doesn't seem too far off being town. Honestly, you guys are just gripping at straws at this point.

We can't just go into RVS about this once more, we have to actually think.
Case on someone will be coming in about an hour or two.

 

[bbninjas]

And... What makes me likely to be scum? Because I'm siding with a claimed town?

Talk about you not reading...

 

[Vom]

If all else fails we are getting rid of a player who has done multiple stupid things.

How does this help? If they are town and do stupid things, scum doesn't kill them (unless they claim doctor ) giving us one more player, and if they are scum, they get caught and lynched.

What are you talking about anyway xD I'm pretty sure it's the Celever thing but I don't really get what's stupid about it.

 

[bbninjas]

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

Because he does this every game and it's really just annoying, I would like to ask everybody to ignore Camoclone's posts, for today at least, so we don't start pointing fingers at him like we must every game. No sense in extra distractions.

Soooooo... you say the WHOLE point of this epidemic was to prevent Camo from being lynched? But he got lynched. And guess who led the lynch!? Keeper. Sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
You even said you don't want to start pointing fingers, but guess what... you did. You accused Camo for buddying, tunnelling, Camo-stuff and etc, which eventually led to the lynch of Camo. Sneaky scummove here.

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

And now you refuse to answer any of my questions. How does that help anybody? You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide.

This sounds not just like a challenge to Camo, but a defense for yourself if you get called out. You are infecting the notion into the collective Town that people who were not 'hiding' are towny. This notion is beneficial to you since you were not 'hiding', thus making the town wrap you into a more 'towny' notion.

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

So lets do this. Keeper of Night is scum. He is contradicting himself.

You're misunderstanding does not mean I am contradicting myself. Though I do feel in an attempt to further my case on AtA, I may have overlapped somewhere. I intend to find out myself.

This sounds like a rubbish and very weak argument to Camo's point. You're accusing Camo of misunderstanding as a defence against Camo's accusation about your contradictions. That doesn't even make sense!!

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

This makes no sense. KoN contradicted himself. Period.

No, I didn't, and I explained that already. But you are refusing to read my posts, therefor I can no longer take you seriously.

Explained? [sarcasm] That (the quote above) was very detailed explaining... [/sarcasm]

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

Camo, you can't expect us to take you seriously.
Yeah, ATA, it did kinda tick me off, you're right. But before we reach the inevitable Camo vs Celever argument, I wanted the point made. I fail to see how that is anything but productive.

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

You did get things started. A bit annoyingly, with all the double/triple/quadruple votes, but you did all the same.

Okay, so before you were saying Camo doesn't create discussion (or is productive), and then you are saying that he did start a discussion. I'm becoming convinced you've created a contradicting lie to make Camo suspicious, a viable lynch and weaken his authority.

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST
You want my vote? I rather wait. My case against you is getting stronger, and I am in no rush.

You're in no rush? Why is that? And why are you making a case when you said you /didn't/ want any fingers pointed at Camo?

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST


These posts, and the rest similar that Camo made, are irrelevant. Now, I agree with Bigfoot that your reveal wasprobablynot the best idea, but it does save us from needlessly lynching a town today. It also means that Camo is proven to be going after a town. That, coupled with his behavior, is enough for me.

##UNVOTE: AlexanderTheAwesome

##VOTE: Camoclone

If you know you're town, wasting your vote isn't helping anybody.

So you now decide vote Camo, and right after Celever claimed. I'm predicting that Celever is your scum buddy and you are trying to subtly remove suspicions from him. Basically you lead the lynchee jump from Celever to Camo. And do some more finger pointing. Of course, when Camo claimed a power role that I would find more believable than Celever's claim, you don't change your vote. Trying to get Camo lynched and save Celever?

If I had anything to say, I would have said it. I believe I have stated this previously.

We do need discussion though, so how about this question for everybody that knows the show:
Based on what you know of the series, what characters do you believe to be a part of the non-benders, and what other abilities could they possess? Maybe we could track them easier in the future if we know what they could claim.
Because thinking about it now, the red-lotus is just another wolf faction. The non-benders are going to be the difficult ones to beat, and could win the game much faster than the lotus, if they can remove bending AND benefit from the wolf kill eliminating benders as well.

So you decide to start a discussion now when you've been called up? That sounds highly suspicious to me, especially as you're diverting suspicions attention away from you, and even gathering a bit more of fake town leadership.

tl;dr

• Keeper basically lynched a claimed Town power role after stating he did not want Camo being lynched
• Keeper is mass contradicting himself and was being hypocritical
• Keeper created a story/stereotype/scenario to make Camo seem much more suspicious, which led to said contradictions. Why? Because Keeper was not familiar with the story, or more accurately, the lie.
• Keeper is trying to sow detrimental seeds into the Town to make him seem townier
• Keeper was protecting Celever by diverting suspicions from him to Camo
• Keeper is trying to divert discussions of suspicions on him by creating different discussions
• Keeper is scum/anti-town

##VOTE: Keeper of Night

-------

RE: Werewolf XXVI: Harmonic Divergence | Day 1 Ends on the 22nd at 22:00 BST

Town Brenton is flippy and isn't so confident.

Found one of Camo's likely reasons for suggesting a Brave lynch, which will be useful for future reference.

 

[Celever]

Camo, who was the main guy at my throat, was actually the guy to clean me. The win condition in the example Role PM in the OP was actually wrong at the time of my claiming! This just cleans me because I wouldn't have been able to know the actual used wincon if not town. @Mr.Muffin, this is my playstyle. I act like me. This oftentimes gets me lynched because IRL I'm a genuinely guilty person (has got me into mistaken trouble before) and this isn't going to change whether I'm town or scum because I'm no willing to change it, ergo I'm scummy regardless of alignment. Great attribute, right?

I still don't like this lynch on KoN. I've read bb's case, and I don't really like it. Intentions almost never equate to consequences. Circumstances change, and they changed yesterday which led to Camo's lynching.

Also to whover taklked about my role fishing on the last page... It was more of a role nudge . Bigfoot had put SS in a position whee he seemed open to claiming (and SS was too open :/) so I outed his role while fishing for leads.

 

[bbninjas]

Forgot about that clear about the different wincon. However, all the other points against Keeper are valid.

C
I still don't like this lynch on KoN. I've read bb's case, and I don't really like it. Intentions almost never equate to consequences. Circumstances change, and they changed yesterday which led to Camo's lynching.

Would you mind elaborating? Keeper had the majority of control and influence over Camo's lynch, and from the VERY start of the Day. If KoN did not argue and point fingers and be a contradict and vote for Camo, then Camo wouldn't have been lynched. This is a scheme on Keeper's part, not a coincidence or changing circumstance.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Soooooo... you say the WHOLE point of this epidemic was to prevent Camo from being lynched? But he got lynched. And guess who led the lynch!? Keeper. Sounds a bit contradictory, don't you think?
You even said you don't want to start pointing fingers, but guess what... you did. You accused Camo for buddying, tunnelling, Camo-stuff and etc, which eventually led to the lynch of Camo. Sneaky scummove here.

Majorly, yeah, because I thought he was town.
I didn't accuse Camo of buddying, I accused ATA of buddying with him. He admitted to tunneling himself.
"The lynch of Camo" was a tie. It could just as easily have been me dead and you people would be making the same case against him instead.

This sounds not just like a challenge to Camo, but a defense for yourself if you get called out. You are infecting the notion into the collective Town that people who were not 'hiding' are towny. This notion is beneficial to you since you were not 'hiding', thus making the town wrap you into a more 'towny' notion.

Camo admitted to ignoring my posts.
I don't understand that last part. But I will tell you that "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide" is a HP quote and since it fit I thought it was funny.

This sounds like a rubbish and very weak argument to Camo's point. You're accusing Camo of misunderstanding as a defence against Camo's accusation about your contradictions. That doesn't even make sense!!

You're right, it doesn't. Because all I can say to this is... Huh?

Explained? [sarcasm] That (the quote above) was very detailed explaining... [/sarcasm]

Like Camo, I feel like you're missing a majority of my posts. I suppose I'll have to find them myself if you continue this. argument.

Okay, so before you were saying Camo doesn't create discussion (or is productive), and then you are saying that he did start a discussion. I'm becoming convinced you've created a contradicting lie to make Camo suspicious, a viable lynch and weaken his authority.

I did say Camo wasn't being productive because he really wasn't. Discussion =/= Productivity

You're in no rush? Why is that? And why are you making a case when you said you /didn't/ want any fingers pointed at Camo?

Because the day still had plenty of time and ending the day early when we could see more discussion is stupid?
I know for a fact I had at least one post pointing out when and where my view on Camo changed.

So you now decide vote Camo, and right after Celever claimed. I'm predicting that Celever is your scum buddy and you are trying to subtly remove suspicions from him. Basically you lead the lynchee jump from Celever to Camo. And do some more finger pointing. Of course, when Camo claimed a power role that I would find more believable than Celever's claim, you don't change your vote. Trying to get Camo lynched and save Celever?

In what universe was Camo's role more believable? He posted his after Celever did, and Celever did so with the PROPER WIN CON. Which even Camo pointed out!
Again, the argument of me being scum rests on the fact that Celever would ALSO have to be scum.

So you decide to start a discussion now when you've been called up? That sounds highly suspicious to me, especially as you're diverting suspicions attention away from you, and even gathering a bit more of fake town leadership.

The discussion I decided to start had nothing to do with MtC's questioning. It was an attempt to get more people talking and possibly lead to an actually helpful discussion.

tl;dr

• Keeper basically lynched a claimed Town power role after stating he did not want Camo being lynched
• Keeper is mass contradicting himself and was being hypocritical
• Keeper created a story/stereotype/scenario to make Camo seem much more suspicious, which led to said contradictions. Why? Because Keeper was not familiar with the story, or more accurately, the lie.
• Keeper is trying to sow detrimental seeds into the Town to make him seem townier
• Keeper was protecting Celever by diverting suspicions from him to Camo
• Keeper is trying to divert discussions of suspicions on him by creating different discussions
• Keeper is scum/anti-town

1: I no longer believed Camo was town. His role was far more likely to be fake than Celever's.
2: Don't think so.
3: Huh.
4: I'm scum for seeming town?
5: Guilty as charged. Protecting the most likely to be town. Better kill me now.
6: Because starting discussion myself and bringing more attention to me is the smart move for scum.
7: Not a fact.

##VOTE: Keeper of Night

*sigh*

/ninja'd
You do remember that the day ended in a tie, and it was basically 50/50 between Camo or myself being lynched... Right?

 

[Celever]

Forgot about that clear about the different wincon. However, all the other points against Keeper are valid.



Would you mind elaborating? Keeper had the majority of control and influence over Camo's lynch, and from the VERY start of the Day. If KoN did not argue and point fingers and be a contradict and vote for Camo, then Camo wouldn't have been lynched. This is a scheme on Keeper's part, not a coincidence or changing circumstance.

Keeper went in with the intentions of not trying to lynch Camo, which is what you posted. As the day progressed, circumstances changed, and Camo started acting really scummy as most of the game noticed (since they actually agreed with it enough to lynch him). As such, saying that KoN backpedaled because his intentions differ from his consequential actions is clutching hard and isn't a real case.

 

[bbninjas]

Majorly, yeah, because I thought he was town.
More contradictions. You said the day before that you were not being contradicting (to Camo) but now you admit to it.

I didn't accuse Camo of buddying, I accused ATA of buddying with him. He admitted to tunneling himself.
It is pretty easy to misinterpret "camo/ata buddying" as Camo and AtA buddying with each other after that long hiatus .--. In regards to the tunneling, he admitted /after/ you accused him (i.e. pointed the finger). The main point is that you were pointing the finger at Camo after saying you did not want anyone doing so.

"The lynch of Camo" was a tie. It could just as easily have been me dead and you people would be making the same case against him instead.

Correct. But why did Camo get all those votes? Because you applied the suspicion. And not true - Camo was not half as scummy as you are now, and there is multiple occasions that I can find that points Camo towards being Town.

--

Camo admitted to ignoring my posts.

So...?

I don't understand that last part. But I will tell you that "you have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide" is a HP quote and since it fit I thought it was funny.
This quote is effectively saying that Camo has 'something to fear + hide' and therefore is acting negative, while you are not 'being fearful and hiding' and therefor acting positive. In short, your quote infers that you are displaying towny behaviour, perfect for building up your trust subtly.

--

You're right, it doesn't. Because all I can say to this is... Huh?

I'll rephrase it for you: As a way to defend yourself against Camo accusing you of being a contradict, you decide to accuse Camo of misunderstanding. And this does not make sense.


--

Like Camo, I feel like you're missing a majority of my posts. I suppose I'll have to find them myself if you continue this. argument.

Oh, so you decide to go and accuse me of misunderstanding. Maybe you are the one misunderstanding? Besides, I would quite like you to find this posts that explain why you are being a contradict.

--

I did say Camo wasn't being productive because he really wasn't. Discussion =/= Productivity

You said that Camo was not being productive, but then you say that "he did get things started". Getting things started is a product of being productive. So blatantly you were being contradictory.

--

Because the day still had plenty of time and ending the day early when we could see more discussion is stupid?
I know for a fact I had at least one post pointing out when and where my view on Camo changed.

I think it is quite hilarious and very hypocritical that you ended up changing your view on Camo and doing (i.e. pointing the finger) what you said previously that noone should do.

--

In what universe was Camo's role more believable? He posted his after Celever did, and Celever did so with the PROPER WIN CON. Which even Camo pointed out!

Celever pointed that out, which is something I overlooked since that was part of the 60 posts I had to read through.

Again, the argument of me being scum rests on the fact that Celever would ALSO have to be scum.

Again? My case does not rest on the fact that Celever and you are scum buddies; that argument is minuscule compared to the rest of the case. i.e. this is you misinterpreting me.
--

The discussion I decided to start had nothing to do with MtC's questioning. It was an attempt to get more people talking and possibly lead to an actually helpful discussion.

So why did you wait until /then/ to actually start a discussion? As in, two to three days in, and basically let those days go to waste.

--

1: I no longer believed Camo was town. His role was far more likely to be fake than Celever's.
The primary fact is that you said that you did not want to point fingers, and you did. The role is not related to that - you are relying to heavily on one arguement.
2: Don't think so.
You said above that you were being a contradict and now you are saying you weren't? That in its self is a contradiction.
3: Huh.
Great response.
4: I'm scum for seeming town?
You are scum by trying to make yourself seem town subtly using a multi-meaning/comparative accusation on Camo.
5: Guilty as charged. Protecting the most likely to be town. Better kill me now.
As stated above, this point is now nullified.l
6: Because starting discussion myself and bringing more attention to me is the smart move for scum.
By starting a different discussion to diver suspicions from you when MtC is clearly targeting you is scummy.
7: Not a fact.
mhm


*sigh*

/ninja'd
You do remember that the day ended in a tie, and it was basically 50/50 between Camo or myself being lynched... Right?
Yes I do

bolded

 

[bbninjas]

Oh, there is the possibility that the anti-town teams actually were told the Town wincon in some other way. Some possibilities come to mind include godfather roles or simply IE posting in the QT an example role.

 

[bbninjas]

Case on someone will be coming in about an hour or two.

I would like to mention that I am waiting for and wanting to see this...

Keeper went in with the intentions of not trying to lynch Camo, which is what you posted. As the day progressed, circumstances changed, and Camo started acting really scummy as most of the game noticed (since they actually agreed with it enough to lynch him). As such, saying that KoN backpedaled because his intentions differ from his consequential actions is clutching hard and isn't a real case.

You say that you find Camo really scummy, but in the heat of the moment during the previous day you voted for KoN instead, because "IDK. I DON'T KNOW ;(". This basically means that you found both of them as equally as scummy.

 

[Celever]

I would like to mention that I am waiting for and wanting to see this...



You say that you find Camo really scummy, but in the heat of the moment during the previous day you voted for KoN instead, because "IDK. I DON'T KNOW ;(". This basically means that you found both of them as equally as scummy.

Camo got into my head.

 

[bbninjas]

Camo got into my head.

o_0
I'm not even sure what to make of that...

 

[Keeper of Night]

More contradictions. You said the day before that you were not being contradicting (to Camo) but now you admit to it

Me saying I thought Camo was town was NOT a contradiction. It would be a contradiction if I said I never believed Camo was town.
I did. Then I didn't. Read Celever's post if you still don't understand.

It is pretty easy to misinterpret "camo/ata buddying" as Camo and AtA buddying with each other after that long hiatus .--. In regards to the tunneling, he admitted /after/ you accused him (i.e. pointed the finger). The main point is that you were pointing the finger at Camo after saying you did not want anyone doing so.

You admit you don't exactly remember what you're arguing about...?

Correct. But why did Camo get all those votes? Because you applied the suspicion. And not true - Camo was not half as scummy as you are now, and there is multiple occasions that I can find that points Camo towards being Town.

All those 5 votes? I must be some sort of puppet master or something to get 4 whole people to want to lynch Camo.
Most had their own reasoning completely separate from me by the way.

So...?

It addresses your concerns.

This quote is effectively saying that Camo has 'something to fear + hide' and therefore is acting negative, while you are not 'being fearful and hiding' and therefor acting positive. In short, your quote infers that you are displaying towny behaviour, perfect for building up your trust subtly.

He wasn't answering my questions because he was ignoring my posts. I wanted to know why, and he said he wasn't going to answer questions from scum. Even MtC agreed that he should have still addressed my concerns.

I'll rephrase it for you: As a way to defend yourself against Camo accusing you of being a contradict, you decide to accuse Camo of misunderstanding. And this does not make sense.

How does me telling Camo he's misunderstanding after he admitted to not reading my post not make any sense?

Oh, so you decide to go and accuse me of misunderstanding. Maybe you are the one misunderstanding? Besides, I would quite like you to find this posts that explain why you are being a contradict.

I never said you misunderstood. Actually, you were the only one to say that. Right here:

It is pretty easy to misinterpret "camo/ata buddying" as Camo and AtA buddying with each other after that long hiatus .--.

All I said was you weren't reading my posts.

You said that Camo was not being productive, but then you say that "he did get things started". Getting things started is a product of being productive. So blatantly you were being contradictory.

Again, starting discussion about something pointless is not productive.

I think it is quite hilarious and very hypocritical that you ended up changing your view on Camo and doing (i.e. pointing the finger) what you said previously that noone should do.

I find it hilarious that you managed to gather all these posts and try to make a flimsy case yet didn't have your facts straight about my accusations and also missed when I view changed on Camo.

Celever pointed that out, which is something I overlooked since that was part of the 60 posts I had to read through.

Second time in the same post that you admitted to missing something important.

Again? My case does not rest on the fact that Celever and you are scum buddies; that argument is minuscule compared to the rest of the case. i.e. this is you misinterpreting me.

So you now decide vote Camo, and right after Celever claimed. I'm predicting that Celever is your scum buddy and you are trying to subtly remove suspicions from him. Basically you lead the lynchee jump from Celever to Camo. And do some more finger pointing. Of course, when Camo claimed a power role that I would find more believable than Celever's claim, you don't change your vote. Trying to get Camo lynched and save Celever?

What were your words again... Hilarious and hypocritical?

So why did you wait until /then/ to actually start a discussion? As in, two to three days in, and basically let those days go to waste.

I was busy with school/waiting to see if others would help with discussion.

1: I no longer believed Camo was town. His role was far more likely to be fake than Celever's.
The primary fact is that you said that you did not want to point fingers, and you did. The role is not related to that - you are relying to heavily on one arguement.
2: Don't think so.
You said above that you were being a contradict and now you are saying you weren't? That in its self is a contradiction.
3: Huh.
Great response.
4: I'm scum for seeming town?
You are scum by trying to make yourself seem town subtly using a multi-meaning/comparative accusation on Camo.
5: Guilty as charged. Protecting the most likely to be town. Better kill me now.
As stated above, this point is now nullified.l
6: Because starting discussion myself and bringing more attention to me is the smart move for scum.
By starting a different discussion to diver suspicions from you when MtC is clearly targeting you is scummy.
7: Not a fact.
mhm

-At least it is only one argument.
-Don't think I've said anything about me contradicting myself.
-And it doesn't look like you're too concerned about getting a real answer.
-Yeah... No. That still means I'm scummy to you for seeming town.
-So you admit that one of your major arguments no longer applies. ...Does that mean we're done here?
-MtC was against me yesterday, what good would it do to argue with him now? He already stated he wants me dead because I don't agree with Camo's method (or maybe that was somebody else, would have to check, been a while) and I'm not going to argue with such thinking.
-Then present the evidence you clearly must have that says I'm scum.

 

[bbninjas]

I'll address ^ later

Meanwhile, I'd like to know exactly what @WanderingWolf is doing - I saw you on here ~30 minutes ago, but not before then...