Finished Werewolf XXX: Future in Stasis - GAME OVER! Town Wins! Now w/ Postgame analysis!

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@bbninjas I really want you to make a real case and not just plant your vote for the day because that's actually very anti-town; town wants optimal lynches whereas scum want "anyone but us". You haven't been searching for any new leads and you tried to bait me into arguing with you again by trying to talk about it with me after I had clearly finished it, because you feel there is enough momentum and enough players thinking that I am scum to get me lynched by the end of the day.

I think that your last post was decently subtle defense and buddying with TGK. I've also noticed you having a couple connections with @Keeper of Night over the course of the day. For that post and earlier reasonings I've posted about you I believe your the optimal lynch for the day, as if you're scum we also get a much stronger case against TGK which is admittedly not the strongest right now.

The definition of OMGUS is voting for someone who is attacking you with no reason to back it up. I hope you all can agree that I've provided enough reasoning to support this lynch to the point where it's not OMGUS. I am also still OK with a TGK lynch, but if there is one way buddying, the buddyer is always scummier than the buddyee. As such,
##UNVOTE: TGK
##VOTE: bbninjas
 
@bbninjas I was also under the impression that your case on Celever simply was that TGK seemed less scummy to you. Looking for scum slips isn't scummy.
 
Cypher333 said:
Why? What does Mordacazir have to do with any of this?

You could have supported your reasoning better if you would have unvoted then.

Why remember this later? I think that I would know when I was unvoted.

Why?

You just unvoted him.

That is actual reasoning.

This is a contradiction. How does unvoting someone then saying that people should vote for that person without revoting for them makes no sense.

What things have gotten good? This argument? This argument is the opposite of good.

What here don't I understand? No, really, tell me.

I am not intent on defending his cases. I am intent on disproving yours because they all make no sense.

NO.

That is NOT what I was arguing about.

Actually, I could, still can, and did.

It does not make sense to me. Quote where I said that it made sense to me.

I was not defending his reasoning.

I felt the need to call you out because you were making the same amount of sense as Celever when you were attacking him.

That's what I'm doing right now.

I am explaining clear, in depth, right now.

If what I'm saying is useless, then what you're saying shouldn't even be there because it has even less place.

The quality of your reasoning speaks for itself! Good DAY sir!
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Oh thank goodness! I thought I might have actually not made sense for a couple of seconds there. It turns out you just don't understand. Next time feel free to ask me to explain things.
 
bbninjas said:
Sorry, but why is my vote on you not a real case??
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You mean this?
bbninjas said:
On consideration of all of that, I still feel like Celever is the better vote. I really don't like Celever's argumenting throughout the earlier day and consider that a big scumtell. I've also noticed more recently that Celever is nitpicking small things that players say in hopes for a "slip", which is a sign of a frantic scum. On the flip side, I feel like much of what is used as evidence against tgk is actually fairly affiliation-neutral if not points only slightly to scum.

tl;dr Celever is scummier than tgk as evidence against tgk is fairly neutral in determining alignment, while evidence agaisnt Celever is much more scummier.
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My argumenting during the first couple hours of the day 100% made the game progress a lot faster because we skipped RVS, which usually takes about 48 hours until we find a "scumslip" which is actually very weak.

Also, saying that something is a sign of a frantic scum doesn't make it true. IMO, looking for leads is how the town wins the game, optimising on poor leads is how scum win the game. On day 1, throwing around different cases to get reactions and eventually see if others noticed the same thing as you in relation to the person you made a case on, but didn't have the guts to say it in the interest of self-preservation, is about the best thing you can do. You know that my playstyle as town is sticking my neck out to find good leads, so I don't know why you're trying to bring it up as a scummy thing I'm doing.

And even if you think I'm scummier than TGK, that gives you no excuse to plant your vote on me and stop looking for new leads, which is what I just called you out for doing.
 
@Cypher333, Camo is difficult to understand in this game and unfathomably annoying to try to reason with. Just ignore him for now, and if one of his leads catches on, I'm sure other will spell it out in more sense.
 
simsands said:
@bbninjas I was also under the impression that your case on Celever simply was that TGK seemed less scummy to you. Looking for scum slips isn't scummy.
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My post here was sorta me restablishing my past case on Celever, but, like you said, mainly was just me sharing my thought process on who I thought was scummier and thus deserves my vote.

Celever said:
You mean this?
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That was my reestablishment, yes. And it looks like you're treating this "case" of mine as something entirely new, which I find interesting...

My argumenting during the first couple hours of the day 100% made the game progress a lot faster because we skipped RVS, which usually takes about 48 hours until we find a "scumslip" which is actually very weak.
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I don't recall you saying this before, and even then, I completely disagree. Because we skipped RVS, the town missed a tool in constructing reads going in Day 2 based on how people react. I'm not sure about everyone else, but I know that Camo pressuring newer players can give very nice reads depending on how they react - if a newbie reacts calm, it is likely that someone has told them to ignore Camo. If a newbie reacts confused, it is moreso likely that the player is town, as they do not have the guidance of a scum team. I actually think that skipping RVS is in the scum's best interests, not the towns.

Btw, once you stop looking for "scumslips", you may find a bit more information come out of Day 1.***

***My final response to a quote in this post sort of explains why I think this.

Also, saying that something is a sign of a frantic scum doesn't make it true. IMO, looking for leads is how the town wins the game, optimising on poor leads is how scum win the game. On day 1, throwing around different cases to get reactions and eventually see if others noticed the same thing as you in relation to the person you made a case on, but didn't have the guts to say it in the interest of self-preservation, is about the best thing you can do. You know that my playstyle as town is sticking my neck out to find good leads, so I don't know why you're trying to bring it up as a scummy thing I'm doing.
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The problem is that you are jumping all over the place. If your wagon doesn't pick up, you search for another one... that is often built on a misconception or poor reasoning in comparison to others. I can't remember if this around what you normally do or not since I haven't played with you for while now, but I'm finding it distractive over helpful.

And even if you think I'm scummier than TGK, that gives you no excuse to plant your vote on me and stop looking for new leads, which is what I just called you out for doing.
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There are a few problems with searching for leads, at least in my opinion.

Firstly, I don't find searching for and posting multiple different "leads" when others are still active as something overly helpful. Posting multiple leads creates a mess of misunderstandings and confusion as readers have to attempt to follow along different cases and any debates that pursue. This is even worse during Day 1, which is amassed with confusion in the first place.

Secondly, I am not too fond of searching for "leads" in the first place. When people search for leads, I find that people (myself included) look waaaaay too hard into posts, locking into a mindset that focus solely on tells and slips. You end up seeing what you want to see, not what is actually there. That "slip" of Camo's that you "found" earlier on is a classic one, and the "contradictions" of scattered would also fall under this. I also reckon that your reason for you finding me as the most optimal lynch is a result of this.

Instead of searching for leads, I make reads. I feel like reads are a much better way to go in scumhunting in Werewolf. Making reads causes me to look for both the scummy and the towny aspects of each player, and reduces the risk of seeing things that is not there. I've actually got a scum read on a player outside of Celever and tgk that I will probably pursue in a later date, but I personally would like to observe that player for a bit longer to adjust my read, if necessary.

Thus, Celever, I do not think it is fair for you to impose on me how I should be scum hunting. I'm not sure if this is just scum you grasping at more straws or if you are actually town, genuinely convinced that I am skating through the day doing nothing, but I hope you and all other WW players consider the above few paragraphs in their methods of scumhunting.
 
That's nice and all, but you didn't defend yourself against my case; all that post is is a description of your playstyle and an attack on mine (the latter being something you decreed unfair in your last parafraph). Please defend the actions I've called you out on and not try to change the topic.

And as an FYI, I'll be busy for p much the rest of the irl day. I've got myself a Sm4sh tournament to win! >:3
 
bbninjas said:
My post here was sorta me restablishing my past case on Celever, but, like you said, mainly was just me sharing my thought process on who I thought was scummier and thus deserves my vote.


That was my reestablishment, yes. And it looks like you're treating this "case" of mine as something entirely new, which I find interesting...


I don't recall you saying this before, and even then, I completely disagree. Because we skipped RVS, the town missed a tool in constructing reads going in Day 2 based on how people react. I'm not sure about everyone else, but I know that Camo pressuring newer players can give very nice reads depending on how they react - if a newbie reacts calm, it is likely that someone has told them to ignore Camo. If a newbie reacts confused, it is moreso likely that the player is town, as they do not have the guidance of a scum team. I actually think that skipping RVS is in the scum's best interests, not the towns.

Btw, once you stop looking for "scumslips", you may find a bit more information come out of Day 1.***

***My final response to a quote in this post sort of explains why I think this.


The problem is that you are jumping all over the place. If your wagon doesn't pick up, you search for another one... that is often built on a misconception or poor reasoning in comparison to others. I can't remember if this around what you normally do or not since I haven't played with you for while now, but I'm finding it distractive over helpful.


There are a few problems with searching for leads, at least in my opinion.

Firstly, I don't find searching for and posting multiple different "leads" when others are still active as something overly helpful. Posting multiple leads creates a mess of misunderstandings and confusion as readers have to attempt to follow along different cases and any debates that pursue. This is even worse during Day 1, which is amassed with confusion in the first place.

Secondly, I am not too fond of searching for "leads" in the first place. When people search for leads, I find that people (myself included) look waaaaay too hard into posts, locking into a mindset that focus solely on tells and slips. You end up seeing what you want to see, not what is actually there. That "slip" of Camo's that you "found" earlier on is a classic one, and the "contradictions" of scattered would also fall under this. I also reckon that your reason for you finding me as the most optimal lynch is a result of this.

Instead of searching for leads, I make reads. I feel like reads are a much better way to go in scumhunting in Werewolf. Making reads causes me to look for both the scummy and the towny aspects of each player, and reduces the risk of seeing things that is not there. I've actually got a scum read on a player outside of Celever and tgk that I will probably pursue in a later date, but I personally would like to observe that player for a bit longer to adjust my read, if necessary.

Thus, Celever, I do not think it is fair for you to impose on me how I should be scum hunting. I'm not sure if this is just scum you grasping at more straws or if you are actually town, genuinely convinced that I am skating through the day doing nothing, but I hope you and all other WW players consider the above few paragraphs in their methods of scumhunting.
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But... bb you are the one who is consistently pestering those players that you see lurking etc to participate. Your play style this game has varied greatly from all other games I've played with you where you are usually as active in your lead hunting as @Celever.

Ive just read back through the 18 pages of this thread, and its for the above reason that I scum read you in particular.

However, i still find TGK to be the scummiest player around atm.

I find Celever to be town, even though he acts as scummy as he does.

##unvote: bbninjas
##vote: thegrovylekid

all of those posts you made around the time of that vote count prior to your role reveal were so dodgy. Also in the role playing era of pgs3-12 you were the first to stop role playing (which was a good thing for the sanity of the town) though it is also what scum would do to fit in :p (this is obviously a lame reason) but your overall scumminess is a lynchable offence.

As for your role claim, I've made posts about it prior, but Jailer can easily be scum, and your second ability could easily have the town and non town effects switched around.
So yeah, you're my vote for now.

Im hoping to post more as the days go on, Christmas is a busy season. I've just found that my heart hasn't been in this game just yet because I still don't know what my Egg Bomb ability did from last game... and its really eating me up not knowing...

Anyways, Im off to bed. laters
 
Also please post something useful. You have posted nothing useful at all. Search his posts guys. He posts noting of substance.
 
Day 1 Vote Count​

This vote count is valid from Post #243 to #357.

Names are in order of when they were first voted. The number after is the current vote total they have. The voters names are in the brackets and the post they made that vote in is in parenthesis. If the voter is struck out, it means they unvoted that player. The player whose name is bolded and underlined is the one with the most votes and is currently up for lynch.

double o squirtle: 0 [Camoclone (56)]
simsands: 0 [Camoclone (59)]
Camoclone: 1 [thegrovylekid (65), Celever (96), thegrovylekid (274), Cypher333 (309)]
bbninjas: 1 [Luispipe8 (66), Squirtle Squad (209), Celever (342)]
Celever: 7 [scattered mind (70), TheFlyingPidove (83), Camoclone (88), GM Draclord (106), Keeper of Night (110), bbninjas (152), double o squirtle (179), Jabberwock (207), Chaos Jackal (219), Vom (244), thegrovylekid (245), mordacazir (248), thegrovylekid (280)]
thegrovylekid: 5 [Camoclone (80), Luispipe8 (125), Chaos Jackal (135), Camoclone (260), Celever (271), Vom (276), Yeowie (282), TheFlyingPidove (286), Squirtle Squad (352)]
Keeper of Night: 0 [Celever (87)]
Cypher333: 0 [thegrovylekid (174)]
scattered mind: 0 [Celever (221)]

No vote: 7 [Ice Espeon, scattered mind, PMJ, Jabberwock, simsands, Yeowie, Athena]

There are 21 living players, so it would take 11 total votes for a majority lynch.

You must unvote the player your vote is currently placed on first in order for your future votes to be counted.

Remember that votes that do not follow the format will not be counted!

All players must PM me a coordinate to move into the Mystery Dungeon! Check back the OP for the Mystery Dungeon guidelines. Results will be processed at the end of the Day.

For those with Abilities that have Day Phase in the Usage and fits other required criteria, please prepare to submit your actions!

If I've missed sending a PM to those who should have received one from the previous Phase, please PM me for confirmation.

Day 1 will end on Wednesday, December 2nd, 2:00 PM GMT.
 
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Celever, I want to talk about your nitpicking. Searching for scumslips is not scummy but it is a fact that many of your votes (Keeper, me, bbninjas) has caused people to ask you what the heck do you mean ( even Athena had to ask you about the Keeper vote and she's barely active). Usually, when you bring an idea about someone, you have no problem to explain and elaborate about it when being asked to. That's also what I think bbninjas thought about when he voted for you.

TGK's scummy actions (OMGUS+Backpedalling) cannot be ignored just because of his role claim. Especially when he role claimed extremely fast.
 
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