Finished Werewolf XXXI: Grima's Rebirth - GAME OVER! TOWN WINS!
- Thread starter Vom
- Start date
- Status
He's not confirmed yet since Reinforce cleared him, and we all know how questionable Reinforce's claims are considering we're convinced his Grima.
KX is actually the only one of his targets that hasn't been cleared in some other fashion which suggests he might be the scumbuddy.
Vracken
Just a Ghost of the Past
I have not been alerted to having my Hp reduced, so he likely used another ability/skill on me.
Even though you are confo town, we still have to be wary, there are no absolutes, but yea you are pretty trustworthy right now.
I think it is better to keep reinforce alive, he has better chances of winning alongside town than scum if he can still "seer", which if reinforce knows stuff about the games, he can make educated guesses as to what ability belongs to who. This is assuming he is Grima and that Grima is independent
When I get back I will go through everything in more detail, kinda annoyingly my case I was building was against Celever, so I have 7000 useless words now and only under developed cases since I focused to heavily on him.
Post it.
He is confirmed. bbninjas cleared him, not Reinforce.
I'm confused then.
I'm reading his post as bb cleared KX.
Unless scattered mind read my post as Reinforce clearing Celever, which is wrong.
I'm reading his post as bb cleared KX.
Unless scattered mind read my post as Reinforce clearing Celever, which is wrong.
Oh, you meant KX. Sorry.
I also read your post as RF clearing me, and was about to correct you
I'm on like two hours of sleep so I apologize for the confusion.I also read your post as RF clearing me, and was about to correct you
I'll post a read list and I'll throw in my role later tonight once I get on my laptop. Also Reinforce seered bb's role as well as mine, and bb's flip turned out to be true so...
Can we get a vote count please @Vom @Keeper of Night
Vracken
Just a Ghost of the Past
Really? I have/will cut down some of the unnecessary stuff so it should be down to about ~6300 words
I don't really like readlists, but you asked, and I haven't really given any indications so far.
Celever Confo Town
King Xerneas Confo Town
Luispipe8 Anti town now
PMJ null
pp, the meanie null
quakingpunch73 null
Scattered mind Iffy right now, leaning scummy
Camoclone Seriously Anti Town at points
Reinforce Independent
mordazazir Scum
TDK Scum, but with some town sway
What's the difference between anti-town and scum on your reads list?
Post it. Don't bother cutting down.
Vracken
Just a Ghost of the Past
Fair enough, mostly I was trying to finish my case on Celever, so at the time it was more so nothing that hadn't already been said.
The stuff I did have to say was on Celever and incomplete things on TDK which if I get the chance I will flesh out more, but I don't see that happening today tomorrow or the day after, I am just too busy right now.
@scattered mind you said I was dodging things (sorry I don't have time to find the actual post at this moment). Was there anything in particular you wanted me to answer
Vracken
Just a Ghost of the Past
Celever’s Case
Nothing of note Posts.
Post 97, Post 99, Post 136, Post 146, Post 158, Post 160, Post 173, Post 199, Post 209 Post 222, Post 296, Post 310, Post 431, Post 435, Post 436, Post 550, Post 596, Post 603, Post 638, Post 644, Post 715, Post 718, Post 721, Post 722, Post 724, Post 732, Post 736, Post 743, Post 803, Post 804, Post 823, Post 828, Post 830, Post 831, Post 834, Post 855, Post 879, Post 881, Post 885, Post 889, Post 962, Post 967, Post 975, Post 993, Post 998, Post 1013, Post 1101, Post 1108, Post 1117, Post 1119, Post 1126, Post 1128, Post 1133, Post 1135, Post 1137, Post 1142, Post 1153, Post 1155, Post 1160, Post 1173, Post 1177, Post 1186, Post 1189, Post 1206, Post 1210, Post 1212, Post 1214, Post 1216, Post 1280, Post 1282, Post 1285, Post 1297, Post 1340, Post 1342, Post 1364, Post 1366, Post 1373, Post 1378, Post 1383, Post 1385, Post 1416, Post 1430, Post 1489, Post 1548, Post 1581, Post 1628, Post 1636,
Post 129
Could be seen as an information grab (asking healer about experience). Nothing wrong with it, just something I pay attention to. Also trying to be fair to new players, also nothing wrong.
Post 138
Very fast and early aggression against another player for what appeared to be a really small thing.
Post 140
Continuation of earlier aggression although with points out that Empoleon_Master does have prior experience in games that involve the term (stated by Celever, not from my knowledge which is why this is noted).
Post 142
Calling out about viewership but inactivity (small scale), which since I have it open but am not physically there/actually viewing myself, I have to take note to, plus I believe Celever does it as well on other forums, but I have not been able to check this thoroughly. Proceeds to Vote for Empoleon_Master, strongly implying pushing for an answer (##answer), so this vote is not seen as a serious, will lynch vote at this point.
Post 150
This should probably be under nothing of note, but I am not so sure, one could easily argue this is the serious should start a lynch post, I am not convinced since it seems jokey, but at the same time that kinda raises my concern that Celever was trying to be like that to reduce peoples later opinions of Celevers scumness.
Post 157 (Post 155 quoted)
Celever deflects a tiny amount of suspicion with an out of relevance statement, from a reasonably odd claim from King Xerneas that’s reasoning is slightly understandable, though very early, with no back up but also out of no where.
Post 164
Questioning Mordacazir, could be seen as pushing for a slip, not inherently aligned in my opinion to do this, but since some heat is already on mordacazir, it could be pushing for a potential lynch target.
Post 168 Note
I really like this post, since it is a solid argument and gives heaps of insight to me on Celevers playstyle this game. It in itself is not an important reads post though
Post 182
Focus shifting to TDK which is odd since he has managed to amass some people behind the Empoleon_Master vote, but not inherently aligned either. Also points out this fact in his post, but is worthy of noticing none the less.
Post 193
Calls out Empoleon_Master again, also saying he is ok with policy lynching, which I think is scummy, although since he has shown he believes Empoleon_Master to be scummy, it does reduce that thought, however I think that just mentioning that is a red flag as it strongly implies he is trying to get unswayed voters onto his side through what I feel is largely a buzzword (even though I have also used it).
Calls me out as well, which is something I am yet to decide if that action is scummy or not, as I have a dual argument both for and against.
Post 195 and Post 197
Questions me, seen as a continuation of Post 129 in regards to The Healer.
Post 203 and Post 207
Talks about Lore (which is really helpful to me despite the fact that others seem to think it is scummy), correctly (as we later find out) determines that Empoleon_Master is likely Chrom, but questions the validity of the message due to other lore related aspects (this much is less helpful lore discussion since ones opinion of who a character really is becomes a trust issue in terms of taking ones word over another’s if someone disputes).
Post 215
Calls Empoleon_Master out on what he believes to be a lie.
Post 218
Calls out pp, the meanie on what is assumed to be an “opportunistic bandwagon” yet completely ignores his earlier belief about TDK’s scummness and the fact both mordacazir and King Xerneas also bandwagoned
Post 256
Address my above point, I don’t buy it at all, as far as I am concerned, the third person on is the bandwagon opportunist
Post 263
While the bandwagon has not yet formed, Celever is an experienced player (or so I am lead to believe) so this could be seen as a predictive early bird jump, something which would surprise me since Camoclone has since proven to be able to get at least a couple of players to jump on his bandwagons. He provides no extra reason (again not inherently aligned, but this doesn’t match the playstyle I pinged Celever as having)
Post 289 Note
Celever once again reveals his playstyle, also withholds information other clearly have not figured out saying that simsands said it, but I am not 100% sure that Celever has nothing to add, hence me just noting this behaviour.
Post 306 Note
States agreement with Camoclone, something which people have stated is abnormal.
Vote Count Post 323
Post 356
Something I noticed as well, which is the secondary reason for I jumped on the Squirtle Squad bandwagon. Gives some slight town cred in my opinion.
Post 384 Note
Kept as a note just in case as Celevers point about safeclaims is my biggest reason I don’t trust people claiming roles, and think that it is pointless as a last defense and people should be more liberal with it if there are strong signs of a lynch pointed there way. Of course, I think I might be a little biased about this point since the only experience I have with safe claims was co-confirmed between Empoleon_Master and Ice Espeon.
Post 386
This post is slightly questionable, since I can see the argument both for and against the use of weapons in early stages, but I since I don’t know roles, I am going to leave this section blank as my speculation would be founded on almost nothing
Post 391
Questions Luispipe8, seen as a continuation of Post 129 in regards to The Healer
Post 396
Questions Luispipe8, seen as a continuation of Post 129 and Post 390 in regards to The Healer.
Post 402 Highly Speculative
A very valid point brought up by Celever, although two problems with this. First, by mentioning it, there is a greater chance that others (specifically scum) will mitigate this effect, especially inexperienced scum. As such Celever could have stated this for that effect, however this also seems really dumb, since then he should have just posted it in scum chat, however however, he may have done so, and had his scum mates ignore that, thus forcing them to act in this manor by posting it here. I know this is a complete stretch so I haven’t used it to sway my opinion on Celevers scumness. The second is that I fully believe town members are very capable of doing this is well, especially in regards to when they are new, or under attack and are trying to think up counter points for defense.
In regards to the alternative lynch, I think this is such a baity thing to do as it is a complete catch-22, don’t say anything, get lynched, say something, get called out for heat switching (or finger pointing, but I am not sure that is the correct term), and people can’t even try to defend the person because then they start to look like scum buddies.
Vote Count Post 411
Post 428
He addresses my previous point, but I don’t like it as an argument for the same reasons I said above.
Post 430
A weak defense here is poor, no defense is also poor, I largely think there is no difference but I can understand why one might think so. Absolutely agree about the TDK point though, due to how I am forming this, I completely missed Squirtle Squads posts unless someone else relevant quotes him (as of rereading this, I still have not rectified that fact sorry).
Post 433
Complete agreement again, moments like this cause me to second guess my opinion, town sway.
Post 507
Very absolute, especially prior to Squirtle Squads flip, understandable but in my opinion hasty.
Post 510
Couldn’t really agree more at this point on Squirtle squad. Partially due to my agreements, by this point I was wondering if I have been swayed by an experienced scum. While this doesn’t raise or lower my sway on anyone, it did start to make me way more wary of anyone who seemed to be able to convince others on anything.
Post 538
Back patting, I believe this to be a sign of scum, although it is really weird, since I thought they only did this after the flip.
Post 549 and Post 552
I understand why Celever feels this way, but I also understand why Empoleon_Master acted the way he did, he feared (or so I thought, he later completely destroys my thoughts on this) being called out on his earlier mistakes by saying something stupid when he could feel confident in being safe, which would give him a massive penalty going into day two as people would start with him. Besides he hadn’t exactly shown any capability of being able to protect himself.
Day 2
Post 594
Genuine point, I can’t remember if I noticed this (leaning towards no). Otherwise points out some fairly obvious stuff, with some minor kinda/kinda not back patting, not too sure I agree with that fact since it is kinda shaky though.
Post 606
More play style reveal, although nothing I hadn’t already gathered, confirmation is nice though.
Post 608
In response, kinda, abnormal play leads me to believe abnormal role, however this is just hearsay at this point
Post 612, Post 614, Post 618, Post 627
These are all on the same point so lumped together, weird, Celever is usually open to discussing his opinion, so I found this at least slightly weird, however post 618 t implies time constraints so I am forced to let this slide. However, then he completely backpedals with no explanation at all, which is even more odd than before
Post 636 Separated for content reasons
Looks into self-preservation which is something everyone should do, you only win if you live therefore everyone should want to live regardless of alignment so sways me nothing, although specific cases of course can change ones opinion on this. I hadn’t really thought about his second lot of points, I mean I just assumed that was true always, so it seemed weird having Celever pointing it out, but coupled with his earlier pointing out of things that I at the very least think should be reasonably obvious it started making me question Celevers playstyle, unless Celever thinks we have moved into the mid game, I couldn’t see a good reason for behaving this way. He also explained his GM DracLord vote which I don’t buy just because he said he thinks scattered mind “[knows]” (Post 612) and I don’t see why someone specifically should know that.
Vote Count Post 646
Post 660
I will admit that questioning double votes is probably not the best idea (I know, I did it as well) but I can’t help but think Celever is saying this because he has a vote weight modifier.
Claims not to be a role fish, but simply knowing someone’s name kinda is a role fish, not a massive deal but notable.
Post 661 Note
Confirming something (which I think I skipped mentioning earlier) makes this noteworthy for future reference
Post of the Devil clearly scum ^w^
I said my thoughts about this earlier, although Empoleon_Master says what I thought below, Empoileon_Master proved he doesn’t actually believe what he posted (or at least I think that way)
This next part reads ultra-scummy to me, just in saying something like this generates huge warning bells to me. Furthermore it is hearsay, so it is pointless in my opinion to state it in the first place.
Post 676
More what I have come to see as abnormal non-explanative behaviour.
Post 678
Pressure vote, but one person generating pressure especially when he said he knows why is really odd to me, no alignment, just weak.
Post 679
Once again calling out inactivity, nothing added but noteworthy for previously listed reasons
Post 691
Hmmmm, not sure how I feel about this post, I understand why it was made, and really I should have been more active at this point but I am not a fan of people claiming what others have said as well, I know it happens, and sometimes agreement can help push things, but Celever doesn’t really explain anything and doesn’t generate discussion from it at this point, which is odd since he said he wanted to bring it up as a discussion point.
Post 702
I agree with this at least a little, however bbninjas has shown a tendency to come up with posts that feel similar to this throughout the whole game, as such I put no weight on alignment from this.
Post 709
This was juicy to me just because I wanted to see how Celever responded, and true to what I said in the following post. Firstly, Celever called out bbninjas with a disagreement and a fair point, although he once again talks about what he would do if he were scum (which I think is distancing and scummy). Then he proceeds to say was happy with the kill, which while he does defend it very well that was a massive red flag raiser, and since we had kinda assumed there was a second scum team at this point, I just can’t agree with Celever about this. Finally he also assumes both sm and myself were confused which is a weird thing to claim in my opinion. Then he calls out bbninjas for complimenting himself, which I believe Clever has done in the past as being a scum tell (I think it is personally).
Post 713
He disputes my point on him, which was done well in my opinion, although he does say he now knows there are two scum teams, meaning he had either forgotten or not realised prior to this point. Proceeds to state opinion on his own and another’s posts which is just noteworthy for future.
Vote Count Post 745
Post 802
I agree with Celever on this point, but again can still be seen as being defensive towards his own effects. Ah, so this is where I got cop from which I was later called out on using.
Post 826
I also wanted to know this, to be honest I got a little worried when Celever pointed it out since if scum feels there are no better lynch targets I think this makes me a little more lucrative in my opinion.
Post 842
simsands vote here due to bbninjas seering, although Celever did say he doesn’t trust bbninjas just earlier. However Keeper of Night was directly quoted, so gives heaps of credibility.
Post 847 Note
I completely agree with this point, nothing to add, but I am keeping this here for future purposes
Post 852
Agreed with as stated below
Post 853 Note
Confirmation on my point, just noteworthy nothing important
Post 877
Role Fish, although is fair since he is a solid lynch target at this point
Post 890
For an analysis type player, this is really odd, statistics determine many things, I don’t think anybody should discount them.
Post 892
I don’t like that reasoning, Celever has past history with the hosts, so this post might make sense to him, but I think if the hosts are going to behave as Celever indicates here, that this whole game suddenly becomes mute. Trust in the hosts is the only thing solo players have on their side, taking that away (barring insane) just ruins the game. So I guess this note is fuelled with my personal opinion on how the game should be run, but that doesn’t change my thoughts on the lack of belief in Celevers post which just feels really bad to me. I was thinking maybe this means Celever knows something we don’t so this is massive scum points in my opinion, although I don’t like that I am going to use this post for more scum points just because it is way too speculative and I want to have more faith in both the players and the hosts.
Vote count Post 918
Post 938 and me on Post 939
Pointing out the closeness to hammering caused me to respond. I was hoping Celever was going to reveal more after me calling out his possible bait, but he didn’t so I didn’t get what I was hoping to off of this which was just more information and a better look at Celever.
Post 946
Interesting, I assume that he means he wants him lynched because Simsands is basically already a done deal, but if taken any other way this looks scummy to me other than the fact that Celever doesn’t seem to think that simsands is scum (again due to not trusting hosts)
Post 948 and Post 950
Proceeds to backpedal on his thoughts about the hosts, honestly I just start getting confused on Celever’s actual beliefs at this point, does he believe simsands is scum or not?
Post 971
I actually have nothing to say about this, although I feel I should from how hard Scattered Mind appeared to be pushing it.
Post 973
Super weak, I have been called out in one of bbninjas read lists I think for doing this (doing what I think people want from me). If it is a joke, it is a bad one, but does cause me to have nothing on this (and it does feel like that) but as I have stated in the past I don’t put much stock in the difference between a joke and really anything else anyway, so I feel like this is a scum tell, but I can also see why it wouldn’t be.
Post 977 and Post 982
I disagree with this point, reads lists are just as useful for scum as it lets them figure out who they can push where using what information to do so. Yes reads lists help town, but not only town, I would think experienced players would have this line of thought unless it has been proven to be wrong in past games which I wouldn’t know so I can only take this as being a false post which feels scummy.
Post 985
I almost put this under nothing noteworthy, but I have changed my mind, since it kinda feels like Celever is attacking Empoleon_Master rather than Empoleon_Master’s statement, which just feels out of place, although I understand Celever (along with many other players) were pretty fed up with Empoleon_Master. However, I may be way too biased about Celever beyond this point, so I worry about my thoughts on this.
Post 987
I agree with this.
Post 992
This felt like a weird fish to me, although now since we know Celever was being attacked by Empoleon_Master it makes more sense to me.
Post 995
More stuff I agree with, mass claims just mean scum don’t need a seer.
Post 1005
More truth, although it is assuming that scum have both gotten weapons and are offensive classes so it could be seen as scum info, however that would be such a rookie mistake and doesn’t seem likely I put no alignment on this.
Post 1009
Desperation maybe? Not really sure, while being cleared would in theory stop the attacks if they are from town, it would have no effect on if scum were the attackers. Makes sense for Celever to behave like this though particularly if he was getting close to dying,
Vote Count Post 1015
Post 1020
Personally lynch all liars is a policy I agree with, however Empoleon_Master was too well soft-cleared still by this point so anyone who jumped on this was stupid and it gave a major scum tell in my opinion. Celever’s read however is diminished since he was trying to protect himself, although at this point he was looking fairly scummy.
Post 1030
Points out that Empoleon_Master was most likely the one who attacked him and that everyone should have been aware with some interesting knowledge as well about potential role skills/abilities. More self-preservation as well.
Post 1039
Thinks I am scum, I haven’t really looked over my posts to see where this thought came from, and almost everyone else seems to think I was neutral so this feels off but is fair enough, everyone has their own reads. I still want to know what made Celever and Camoclone saw that made them think I was scum specifically so I can dispute it and hopefully not have them harbour those feelings towards me.
Post 1088
This is the most valid thing about lynching Empoleon_Master barring the Celever is worried about death possibility, however I still don’t think that is good enough. Also tries to back up that reasoning with the “more legible” line which in my opinion just weakens the argument. Don’t like Empoleon_Masters posts? Don’t read them, others implied they don’t really read them so weak argument I believe.
Post 1090
Since Celever said he thinks I am scum earlier I was surprised to find myself off this list. Information is a semi weak argument because unless I missed something (which I will admit to being likely) I never pinged King Xerneas as being able to give a lot of information. pp, the meanie however is more understandable due to heftier contributions.
Post 1093
I admittedly did not think about Reinforce’s point but I have to agree with him on it, as Celever did. However, I still wanted to believe bbninjas just due to his quoting Vom. Otherwise just more Empoleon_Master hate
Post 1096
I agree with this point, as for the plurality thing I didn’t notice it but it is potentially note worthy
Post 1098
Just confirmation, could be a lie, but I think it is kinda a weak one since people are leaving the Empoleon_Master bandwagon
Vote Count Post 1122
Post 1139
This is an appeal to something, saying that he will be dead, if he is still worried about Empoleon_Master attacking him, fair enough, but otherwise this post feels off.
Post 1145 and Post 1148
Could be seen as pushing pressure off of himself
Post 1150
Truth to his post, but also kinda pointless since everyone was just waiting, as Celever should have been able to guess.
End of Day Post 1166
Post 1179
Vote for King Xerneas, no information provided
Post 1183
Appeal maybe? Otherwise just a thought dump that doesn’t really help reads.
Post 1184
I fully didn’t understand this post, I think bbninjas was just confirming suspicions (poorly) I don’t think it was a scum tell, unless someone could explain it better.
Post 1193
Rolefish.
Post 1200
Fair enough, I have already talked about my thoughts on this though. Otherwise just an info dump
Post 1207
Hearsay post, but gives me a slight indication as to bbninjas playstyle. Also a fine point, that I hadn’t thought about but makes so much sense, and makes me feel wary of the players who didn’t say anything about their allegiance earlier for bbninjas
Post 1219
Except you won’t always (I think, memory is shady) when Empoleon_Master is the one asking. Seems like a lie to me. So, I jumped the gun on this one, since it wasn’t mechanics as much as just terms, still I don’t think it should be such a big difference that you choose to answer one and not the other.
Post 1220
More about bbninjas, not sure what FoL is though.
Post 1232
Two poor reads in a row, not an indication (He wasn’t the only one) but is noteworthy especially if it ends up growing.
Post 1247
Fair enough, decent response although it relies on several ifs, and is implied to take quite a while but still self-preservation and using the argument of net worth is a good idea, except that people are scum reading you, so that kinda weakens the argument.
Post 1249
Talks again about lynching a confirmed town but again self-preservation so no sway.
Post 1257
Completely drops me from scum reads without reasoning’s, but others have posted a lot more now so his reads on them may have just been more developed. We get his idea of scum teams as well, which is interesting, especially with the hindsight we now have.
Post 1260
Good explanation, good finger pointing as well.
Post 1262
Looks a lot like buddying to me.
Vote Count Post 1264
Post 1265
Interesting point, I missed it.
Post 1269 and Post 1270
Ok, so at the time I had no idea how this confirmed Reinforce as a scum, looking back man it was so blindingly obvious, DO NOT MISS THINGS LIKE THIS IN THE FUTURE.
Post 1274
And he explained it here, but I think I missed this post or something because I still wasn’t sure what was going on after this point
Post 1299
Nothing really wrong with this I am just wondering why does Celever care at this point?
Post 1304
Brings up the interesting things about the Reinforce, which lead me to believe Reinforce is scum although didn’t make me want to vote, not so sure why.
Vote Count Post 1325
Post 1335
Wow so much yet nothing to really comment on although bbninjas not being confirmed is something I can agree with even if I still believe bbninjas is town at this point.
Post 1338
Points out the oddity of scums night kills. I too question this quite heavily, although not quite to the same extent as I have nothing to doubt bbninjas at this point.
Post 1345
Love this point since it would be kind a terrifying for scum to have two seers to worry about. I am afraid however of that meaning scum might have a doctor which is how Reinforce managed to avoid the lynching, and that would in my opinion be broken (ignoring the fact I think being immune o being lynched is the most broken thing in the game and it is why I doubt Reinforces claim, at the very least doctors have some interesting play and counter-play)
Post 1351
Interesting theory that I really want to be true just because it would be awesome (Check this out after the game).
Post 1356
I should have written this earlier if I haven’t already, the biggest problem with waiting on lynch’s if the whine in front of me problem, the more time bought for scum, the more time they have to do things like protect, and shift focus. I am not saying this is what is happening with Celevers posts in regards to lynching Reinforce, but it is an issue we have to be wary of, especially since if Celever is on Reinforces scum team, buying him the extra day gives them another read, and gives them the night to start protecting Reinforce, especially if his role had something like cannot be lynched on odd days, or if they a doctor that doctor can only use their skill/ability on even nights.
Then there is also the point that doesn’t completely relate to Celever of if they can’t be lynched, and a scum is a major scum target then they can again by time by making people want to try to lynch someone that can’t actually be lynched, thus keeping their teammate alive. Ordinarily I don’t think lynch order matters much if at all, but in this game where everyone has abilities and skills lynch order really can start to matter.
Post 1375
Not 100% sure why that is anti-town, but whatever it is Empoleon_Master, I stopped caring about anything he was doing at this point
Post 1392
Not sure about some people, but sure about others, this reads as informed to me
Post 1393
Flips back onto Empoleon_Master when we are fairly sure we have a lynch target, but once yet again, self-preservation makes me not want to use this as a read
Post 1401
I would have to go back and reread every post to be sure, but I believe Celever has stated subjective content as fact so, you know, hypocrisy, however that is an easy mistake to make for anyone, so no read from this. Then Celever brings up an interesting point about people beggining to doubt the soft claims of Ice Espeon and Empoleon_Master, which Empoleon_Master maybe, so I guess by extension Ice Espeon, but anyway, this claim feels off to me.
Post 1404
Pushing the village idiot (not the role, I just got bored) bold, but understandable. I would like to know how different the game would be if this hadn’t happened though (I seemed to miss something out here, I assume I am talking about the Modkill)
Post 1409
Fair point here
Post 1427
Um, ok, nice to know, I would still like to know what caused him to change his mind about me though. Would have been nice if Celever had posted a little more information on scattered mind especially since he thought he was about to die. Unless, plot twist, he knew he wasn’t. But I mean, if he did, then foul play is a foot.
Post 1431
I missed whatever it was Celever said, and I find this to be really off putting that a mod has come in to remove something, if it was an accidental post (as in for something else) then I have to seriously question it since Celever seems to have kept a post there. Otherwise, why is a mod getting involved that seems like a line cross?
Vote Count Post 1432
Post 1435
Calling me for support when I have already kinda shown that I am not for lynching soft claimed/cleared town felt off, but that may have been forgotten since it was quite a while ago.
Post 1441 and Post 1443
Appeal to self-preservation.
Post 1448
I disagree with the helping the town more, Celever could just have easily been leading us towards lynching actual town members like Empoleon_Master.
Post 1449
More self-preservation.
Post 1453
Bad hosts, that is not good, arms should be out of game not in it, nothing like that should be confirmed.
Post 1463
I don’t care, it is still their fault, you should be alerted after you die, never before, that is just the hosts being too involved for my liking, it almost feels like preferential treatment.
Post 1469
Appeal to self-preservation.
Post 1477
Calls for turbo even though in the past he said the bbninjas and scattered mind are his biggest scum reads, so this feels like a predictive bandwagon jumping (since everyone should have seen the almost turbo starting).
Vote Count Day End Lynch thing Post 1492
Post 1524
Yes, although we don’t know if night time targets or not, so it is possible that someone else was targeted for the night kill and then that was redirected to GM DracLord. Someone said that earlier, I thought it was Celever but maybe not.
Claims to have claimed role, unfortunately I have no idea about this since I haven’t played Fire Emblem, and as such have no idea even if some of the revealed characters are scum or town or really what is going on in that regard.
Finally starts looking at scattered mind, something I have been interested in since he first announced that he thought scattered mind was scummy, but doesn’t actually post an evidence or opinions, just the vote.
Post 1545
Explains what happened with the mod post. I find it to be acceptable (just the post not the talking about it in skype) and it is good that Celever recognised it, still bad Vom.
Post 1550, Post 1553, Post 1554, Post 1557, Post 1559, Post 1561, Post 1563, Post 1565, Post 1571
Back pedal plus some other stuff, honestly over all it makes Celever look scummy, but I can also see where the “misunderstanding” occurs so I am discounting this series of posts. Do want to point out though that Celever looked fairly precise in the past, so I am not so sure why there was a slip in that quality here, it isn’t like people don’t do that and fatigue is a thing but still noteworthy.
Post 1575
This should probably go in no noteworthy, but I think it might be later.
Post 1576
Yes, you have said you think scattered mind is scum, but you didn’t put any relevant information in, which I find worrying, especially since others jumped onto that bandwagon, unless I missed something in which case this is mute. If you claim your role, but only one person who is scum notices, then red flags are raised.
Post 1579
Everyone role fishes, it is at least slight unavoidable if you are questioning people, Celever has role fished so another hypocritical statement that isn’t inherently aligned but when the person saying it thinks it is scummy I actually want to give credit to their belief
Post 1586
I don’t really think mass claims are ever really useful personally (at least not to town) but I don’t have experience with this, so I will yield my belief on this matter. Yea, here is where I think what with Celever again, you have to admit that 3/3 being wrong does not look good for you, that defense is weak if you could even call it that, however the attack is just as weak so yea.
Post 1589
Connections between Scattered Mind and pp, the meanie? I haven’t noticed any, but they haven’t exactly been on my radar. Theory is possible, but I will leave it at that.
Post 1591
Back to the PMJ turbo debacle.
Post 1595
Possible pressure shift onto quakingpunch73, which is odd, because several people haven’t posted reads lists (at least I think several people, I might be the only one who hasn’t).
Post 1601
I agree, everyone should do that especially subconsciously, it isn’t a tell in my opinion.
Post 1602
Another appeal maybe? I kinda wonder about the usage of the word, it makes sense in my mind, but sometimes I don’t others have the same meaning for the word.
Post 1625
Weird that Celever omits something on the second question, not really important since it doesn’t actually answer the question, but I would have expected it given his response to the first. Answer to seven while sounding correct also looks like a dodge to me.
Post 1638
Just an explanation.
Post 1641
I guess I can agree here although it is a little bit shaky.
Post 1643
Meh.
Post 1645
How are we not done with this already, I swear Camoclone knows what is going on and he is just beating a dead horse.
Post 1649
Noteworthy but nothing to comment on.
Post 1652
Calling me out again, liked by Scattered Mind interestingly enough, completely understand where Celever is coming from and his reasoning.
Post 1656
Yea, I would like to hear why Camoclone acted this way since so many people have questioned your two’s lack of fighting.
This is where I got to before my post, but I opened up some of the other tabs before I lost access again. Unfortunately not all managed to load, so I only got a couple more pages than I already had.
Post 1661
I have already stated my thoughts on reads lists, not bad for town, but also beneficial for scum.
Post 1670
Finally going to get the information I have been wanting for a while. Otherwise nothing else.
Post 1703
Ok, that is fine I guess, the biggest town sway Celever has given me is probably the fact that he would rather wait and give more discussion time than hammer, although that does have some scum implications as well, I feel over all it is more beneficial to town.
Post 1718
I agree with Celever on the exaggeration, I wasn’t aware that lots of posts on a topic was overly scummy but ok, I can see that more experience would give a larger sample pool for this fact, I however still don’t fully buy it. Celever points out the scum belief bias, something which I have been afraid I have been thinking about Celever for the best part of the game, so yea there is that.
Post 1720
I agree with Celever on the first point, and absolutely on the second point since out of everyone the person most comparable with me on this kind of a problem is Ice Espeon, although I will admit to not posting enough. I will explain that after the game, although I would hope that the size of this post would be an indication of why I haven’t posted huge amounts.
This was as far as I got
Nothing of note Posts.
Post 97, Post 99, Post 136, Post 146, Post 158, Post 160, Post 173, Post 199, Post 209 Post 222, Post 296, Post 310, Post 431, Post 435, Post 436, Post 550, Post 596, Post 603, Post 638, Post 644, Post 715, Post 718, Post 721, Post 722, Post 724, Post 732, Post 736, Post 743, Post 803, Post 804, Post 823, Post 828, Post 830, Post 831, Post 834, Post 855, Post 879, Post 881, Post 885, Post 889, Post 962, Post 967, Post 975, Post 993, Post 998, Post 1013, Post 1101, Post 1108, Post 1117, Post 1119, Post 1126, Post 1128, Post 1133, Post 1135, Post 1137, Post 1142, Post 1153, Post 1155, Post 1160, Post 1173, Post 1177, Post 1186, Post 1189, Post 1206, Post 1210, Post 1212, Post 1214, Post 1216, Post 1280, Post 1282, Post 1285, Post 1297, Post 1340, Post 1342, Post 1364, Post 1366, Post 1373, Post 1378, Post 1383, Post 1385, Post 1416, Post 1430, Post 1489, Post 1548, Post 1581, Post 1628, Post 1636,
Post 129
Could be seen as an information grab (asking healer about experience). Nothing wrong with it, just something I pay attention to. Also trying to be fair to new players, also nothing wrong.
Post 138
Very fast and early aggression against another player for what appeared to be a really small thing.
Post 140
Continuation of earlier aggression although with points out that Empoleon_Master does have prior experience in games that involve the term (stated by Celever, not from my knowledge which is why this is noted).
Post 142
Calling out about viewership but inactivity (small scale), which since I have it open but am not physically there/actually viewing myself, I have to take note to, plus I believe Celever does it as well on other forums, but I have not been able to check this thoroughly. Proceeds to Vote for Empoleon_Master, strongly implying pushing for an answer (##answer), so this vote is not seen as a serious, will lynch vote at this point.
Post 150
This should probably be under nothing of note, but I am not so sure, one could easily argue this is the serious should start a lynch post, I am not convinced since it seems jokey, but at the same time that kinda raises my concern that Celever was trying to be like that to reduce peoples later opinions of Celevers scumness.
Post 157 (Post 155 quoted)
Celever deflects a tiny amount of suspicion with an out of relevance statement, from a reasonably odd claim from King Xerneas that’s reasoning is slightly understandable, though very early, with no back up but also out of no where.
Post 164
Questioning Mordacazir, could be seen as pushing for a slip, not inherently aligned in my opinion to do this, but since some heat is already on mordacazir, it could be pushing for a potential lynch target.
Post 168 Note
I really like this post, since it is a solid argument and gives heaps of insight to me on Celevers playstyle this game. It in itself is not an important reads post though
Post 182
Focus shifting to TDK which is odd since he has managed to amass some people behind the Empoleon_Master vote, but not inherently aligned either. Also points out this fact in his post, but is worthy of noticing none the less.
Post 193
Calls out Empoleon_Master again, also saying he is ok with policy lynching, which I think is scummy, although since he has shown he believes Empoleon_Master to be scummy, it does reduce that thought, however I think that just mentioning that is a red flag as it strongly implies he is trying to get unswayed voters onto his side through what I feel is largely a buzzword (even though I have also used it).
Calls me out as well, which is something I am yet to decide if that action is scummy or not, as I have a dual argument both for and against.
Post 195 and Post 197
Questions me, seen as a continuation of Post 129 in regards to The Healer.
Post 203 and Post 207
Talks about Lore (which is really helpful to me despite the fact that others seem to think it is scummy), correctly (as we later find out) determines that Empoleon_Master is likely Chrom, but questions the validity of the message due to other lore related aspects (this much is less helpful lore discussion since ones opinion of who a character really is becomes a trust issue in terms of taking ones word over another’s if someone disputes).
Post 215
Calls Empoleon_Master out on what he believes to be a lie.
Post 218
Calls out pp, the meanie on what is assumed to be an “opportunistic bandwagon” yet completely ignores his earlier belief about TDK’s scummness and the fact both mordacazir and King Xerneas also bandwagoned
Post 256
Address my above point, I don’t buy it at all, as far as I am concerned, the third person on is the bandwagon opportunist
Post 263
While the bandwagon has not yet formed, Celever is an experienced player (or so I am lead to believe) so this could be seen as a predictive early bird jump, something which would surprise me since Camoclone has since proven to be able to get at least a couple of players to jump on his bandwagons. He provides no extra reason (again not inherently aligned, but this doesn’t match the playstyle I pinged Celever as having)
Post 289 Note
Celever once again reveals his playstyle, also withholds information other clearly have not figured out saying that simsands said it, but I am not 100% sure that Celever has nothing to add, hence me just noting this behaviour.
Post 306 Note
States agreement with Camoclone, something which people have stated is abnormal.
Vote Count Post 323
Post 356
Something I noticed as well, which is the secondary reason for I jumped on the Squirtle Squad bandwagon. Gives some slight town cred in my opinion.
Post 384 Note
Kept as a note just in case as Celevers point about safeclaims is my biggest reason I don’t trust people claiming roles, and think that it is pointless as a last defense and people should be more liberal with it if there are strong signs of a lynch pointed there way. Of course, I think I might be a little biased about this point since the only experience I have with safe claims was co-confirmed between Empoleon_Master and Ice Espeon.
Post 386
This post is slightly questionable, since I can see the argument both for and against the use of weapons in early stages, but I since I don’t know roles, I am going to leave this section blank as my speculation would be founded on almost nothing
Post 391
Questions Luispipe8, seen as a continuation of Post 129 in regards to The Healer
Post 396
Questions Luispipe8, seen as a continuation of Post 129 and Post 390 in regards to The Healer.
Post 402 Highly Speculative
A very valid point brought up by Celever, although two problems with this. First, by mentioning it, there is a greater chance that others (specifically scum) will mitigate this effect, especially inexperienced scum. As such Celever could have stated this for that effect, however this also seems really dumb, since then he should have just posted it in scum chat, however however, he may have done so, and had his scum mates ignore that, thus forcing them to act in this manor by posting it here. I know this is a complete stretch so I haven’t used it to sway my opinion on Celevers scumness. The second is that I fully believe town members are very capable of doing this is well, especially in regards to when they are new, or under attack and are trying to think up counter points for defense.
In regards to the alternative lynch, I think this is such a baity thing to do as it is a complete catch-22, don’t say anything, get lynched, say something, get called out for heat switching (or finger pointing, but I am not sure that is the correct term), and people can’t even try to defend the person because then they start to look like scum buddies.
Vote Count Post 411
Post 428
He addresses my previous point, but I don’t like it as an argument for the same reasons I said above.
Post 430
A weak defense here is poor, no defense is also poor, I largely think there is no difference but I can understand why one might think so. Absolutely agree about the TDK point though, due to how I am forming this, I completely missed Squirtle Squads posts unless someone else relevant quotes him (as of rereading this, I still have not rectified that fact sorry).
Post 433
Complete agreement again, moments like this cause me to second guess my opinion, town sway.
Post 507
Very absolute, especially prior to Squirtle Squads flip, understandable but in my opinion hasty.
Post 510
Couldn’t really agree more at this point on Squirtle squad. Partially due to my agreements, by this point I was wondering if I have been swayed by an experienced scum. While this doesn’t raise or lower my sway on anyone, it did start to make me way more wary of anyone who seemed to be able to convince others on anything.
Post 538
Back patting, I believe this to be a sign of scum, although it is really weird, since I thought they only did this after the flip.
Post 549 and Post 552
I understand why Celever feels this way, but I also understand why Empoleon_Master acted the way he did, he feared (or so I thought, he later completely destroys my thoughts on this) being called out on his earlier mistakes by saying something stupid when he could feel confident in being safe, which would give him a massive penalty going into day two as people would start with him. Besides he hadn’t exactly shown any capability of being able to protect himself.
Day 2
Post 594
Genuine point, I can’t remember if I noticed this (leaning towards no). Otherwise points out some fairly obvious stuff, with some minor kinda/kinda not back patting, not too sure I agree with that fact since it is kinda shaky though.
Post 606
More play style reveal, although nothing I hadn’t already gathered, confirmation is nice though.
Post 608
In response, kinda, abnormal play leads me to believe abnormal role, however this is just hearsay at this point
Post 612, Post 614, Post 618, Post 627
These are all on the same point so lumped together, weird, Celever is usually open to discussing his opinion, so I found this at least slightly weird, however post 618 t implies time constraints so I am forced to let this slide. However, then he completely backpedals with no explanation at all, which is even more odd than before
Post 636 Separated for content reasons
Looks into self-preservation which is something everyone should do, you only win if you live therefore everyone should want to live regardless of alignment so sways me nothing, although specific cases of course can change ones opinion on this. I hadn’t really thought about his second lot of points, I mean I just assumed that was true always, so it seemed weird having Celever pointing it out, but coupled with his earlier pointing out of things that I at the very least think should be reasonably obvious it started making me question Celevers playstyle, unless Celever thinks we have moved into the mid game, I couldn’t see a good reason for behaving this way. He also explained his GM DracLord vote which I don’t buy just because he said he thinks scattered mind “[knows]” (Post 612) and I don’t see why someone specifically should know that.
Vote Count Post 646
Post 660
I will admit that questioning double votes is probably not the best idea (I know, I did it as well) but I can’t help but think Celever is saying this because he has a vote weight modifier.
Claims not to be a role fish, but simply knowing someone’s name kinda is a role fish, not a massive deal but notable.
Post 661 Note
Confirming something (which I think I skipped mentioning earlier) makes this noteworthy for future reference
Post of the Devil clearly scum ^w^
I said my thoughts about this earlier, although Empoleon_Master says what I thought below, Empoileon_Master proved he doesn’t actually believe what he posted (or at least I think that way)
This next part reads ultra-scummy to me, just in saying something like this generates huge warning bells to me. Furthermore it is hearsay, so it is pointless in my opinion to state it in the first place.
Post 676
More what I have come to see as abnormal non-explanative behaviour.
Post 678
Pressure vote, but one person generating pressure especially when he said he knows why is really odd to me, no alignment, just weak.
Post 679
Once again calling out inactivity, nothing added but noteworthy for previously listed reasons
Post 691
Hmmmm, not sure how I feel about this post, I understand why it was made, and really I should have been more active at this point but I am not a fan of people claiming what others have said as well, I know it happens, and sometimes agreement can help push things, but Celever doesn’t really explain anything and doesn’t generate discussion from it at this point, which is odd since he said he wanted to bring it up as a discussion point.
Post 702
I agree with this at least a little, however bbninjas has shown a tendency to come up with posts that feel similar to this throughout the whole game, as such I put no weight on alignment from this.
Post 709
This was juicy to me just because I wanted to see how Celever responded, and true to what I said in the following post. Firstly, Celever called out bbninjas with a disagreement and a fair point, although he once again talks about what he would do if he were scum (which I think is distancing and scummy). Then he proceeds to say was happy with the kill, which while he does defend it very well that was a massive red flag raiser, and since we had kinda assumed there was a second scum team at this point, I just can’t agree with Celever about this. Finally he also assumes both sm and myself were confused which is a weird thing to claim in my opinion. Then he calls out bbninjas for complimenting himself, which I believe Clever has done in the past as being a scum tell (I think it is personally).
Post 713
He disputes my point on him, which was done well in my opinion, although he does say he now knows there are two scum teams, meaning he had either forgotten or not realised prior to this point. Proceeds to state opinion on his own and another’s posts which is just noteworthy for future.
Vote Count Post 745
Post 802
I agree with Celever on this point, but again can still be seen as being defensive towards his own effects. Ah, so this is where I got cop from which I was later called out on using.
Post 826
I also wanted to know this, to be honest I got a little worried when Celever pointed it out since if scum feels there are no better lynch targets I think this makes me a little more lucrative in my opinion.
Post 842
simsands vote here due to bbninjas seering, although Celever did say he doesn’t trust bbninjas just earlier. However Keeper of Night was directly quoted, so gives heaps of credibility.
Post 847 Note
I completely agree with this point, nothing to add, but I am keeping this here for future purposes
Post 852
Agreed with as stated below
Post 853 Note
Confirmation on my point, just noteworthy nothing important
Post 877
Role Fish, although is fair since he is a solid lynch target at this point
Post 890
For an analysis type player, this is really odd, statistics determine many things, I don’t think anybody should discount them.
Post 892
I don’t like that reasoning, Celever has past history with the hosts, so this post might make sense to him, but I think if the hosts are going to behave as Celever indicates here, that this whole game suddenly becomes mute. Trust in the hosts is the only thing solo players have on their side, taking that away (barring insane) just ruins the game. So I guess this note is fuelled with my personal opinion on how the game should be run, but that doesn’t change my thoughts on the lack of belief in Celevers post which just feels really bad to me. I was thinking maybe this means Celever knows something we don’t so this is massive scum points in my opinion, although I don’t like that I am going to use this post for more scum points just because it is way too speculative and I want to have more faith in both the players and the hosts.
Vote count Post 918
Post 938 and me on Post 939
Pointing out the closeness to hammering caused me to respond. I was hoping Celever was going to reveal more after me calling out his possible bait, but he didn’t so I didn’t get what I was hoping to off of this which was just more information and a better look at Celever.
Post 946
Interesting, I assume that he means he wants him lynched because Simsands is basically already a done deal, but if taken any other way this looks scummy to me other than the fact that Celever doesn’t seem to think that simsands is scum (again due to not trusting hosts)
Post 948 and Post 950
Proceeds to backpedal on his thoughts about the hosts, honestly I just start getting confused on Celever’s actual beliefs at this point, does he believe simsands is scum or not?
Post 971
I actually have nothing to say about this, although I feel I should from how hard Scattered Mind appeared to be pushing it.
Post 973
Super weak, I have been called out in one of bbninjas read lists I think for doing this (doing what I think people want from me). If it is a joke, it is a bad one, but does cause me to have nothing on this (and it does feel like that) but as I have stated in the past I don’t put much stock in the difference between a joke and really anything else anyway, so I feel like this is a scum tell, but I can also see why it wouldn’t be.
Post 977 and Post 982
I disagree with this point, reads lists are just as useful for scum as it lets them figure out who they can push where using what information to do so. Yes reads lists help town, but not only town, I would think experienced players would have this line of thought unless it has been proven to be wrong in past games which I wouldn’t know so I can only take this as being a false post which feels scummy.
Post 985
I almost put this under nothing noteworthy, but I have changed my mind, since it kinda feels like Celever is attacking Empoleon_Master rather than Empoleon_Master’s statement, which just feels out of place, although I understand Celever (along with many other players) were pretty fed up with Empoleon_Master. However, I may be way too biased about Celever beyond this point, so I worry about my thoughts on this.
Post 987
I agree with this.
Post 992
This felt like a weird fish to me, although now since we know Celever was being attacked by Empoleon_Master it makes more sense to me.
Post 995
More stuff I agree with, mass claims just mean scum don’t need a seer.
Post 1005
More truth, although it is assuming that scum have both gotten weapons and are offensive classes so it could be seen as scum info, however that would be such a rookie mistake and doesn’t seem likely I put no alignment on this.
Post 1009
Desperation maybe? Not really sure, while being cleared would in theory stop the attacks if they are from town, it would have no effect on if scum were the attackers. Makes sense for Celever to behave like this though particularly if he was getting close to dying,
Vote Count Post 1015
Post 1020
Personally lynch all liars is a policy I agree with, however Empoleon_Master was too well soft-cleared still by this point so anyone who jumped on this was stupid and it gave a major scum tell in my opinion. Celever’s read however is diminished since he was trying to protect himself, although at this point he was looking fairly scummy.
Post 1030
Points out that Empoleon_Master was most likely the one who attacked him and that everyone should have been aware with some interesting knowledge as well about potential role skills/abilities. More self-preservation as well.
Post 1039
Thinks I am scum, I haven’t really looked over my posts to see where this thought came from, and almost everyone else seems to think I was neutral so this feels off but is fair enough, everyone has their own reads. I still want to know what made Celever and Camoclone saw that made them think I was scum specifically so I can dispute it and hopefully not have them harbour those feelings towards me.
Post 1088
This is the most valid thing about lynching Empoleon_Master barring the Celever is worried about death possibility, however I still don’t think that is good enough. Also tries to back up that reasoning with the “more legible” line which in my opinion just weakens the argument. Don’t like Empoleon_Masters posts? Don’t read them, others implied they don’t really read them so weak argument I believe.
Post 1090
Since Celever said he thinks I am scum earlier I was surprised to find myself off this list. Information is a semi weak argument because unless I missed something (which I will admit to being likely) I never pinged King Xerneas as being able to give a lot of information. pp, the meanie however is more understandable due to heftier contributions.
Post 1093
I admittedly did not think about Reinforce’s point but I have to agree with him on it, as Celever did. However, I still wanted to believe bbninjas just due to his quoting Vom. Otherwise just more Empoleon_Master hate
Post 1096
I agree with this point, as for the plurality thing I didn’t notice it but it is potentially note worthy
Post 1098
Just confirmation, could be a lie, but I think it is kinda a weak one since people are leaving the Empoleon_Master bandwagon
Vote Count Post 1122
Post 1139
This is an appeal to something, saying that he will be dead, if he is still worried about Empoleon_Master attacking him, fair enough, but otherwise this post feels off.
Post 1145 and Post 1148
Could be seen as pushing pressure off of himself
Post 1150
Truth to his post, but also kinda pointless since everyone was just waiting, as Celever should have been able to guess.
End of Day Post 1166
Post 1179
Vote for King Xerneas, no information provided
Post 1183
Appeal maybe? Otherwise just a thought dump that doesn’t really help reads.
Post 1184
I fully didn’t understand this post, I think bbninjas was just confirming suspicions (poorly) I don’t think it was a scum tell, unless someone could explain it better.
Post 1193
Rolefish.
Post 1200
Fair enough, I have already talked about my thoughts on this though. Otherwise just an info dump
Post 1207
Hearsay post, but gives me a slight indication as to bbninjas playstyle. Also a fine point, that I hadn’t thought about but makes so much sense, and makes me feel wary of the players who didn’t say anything about their allegiance earlier for bbninjas
Post 1219
Except you won’t always (I think, memory is shady) when Empoleon_Master is the one asking. Seems like a lie to me. So, I jumped the gun on this one, since it wasn’t mechanics as much as just terms, still I don’t think it should be such a big difference that you choose to answer one and not the other.
Post 1220
More about bbninjas, not sure what FoL is though.
Post 1232
Two poor reads in a row, not an indication (He wasn’t the only one) but is noteworthy especially if it ends up growing.
Post 1247
Fair enough, decent response although it relies on several ifs, and is implied to take quite a while but still self-preservation and using the argument of net worth is a good idea, except that people are scum reading you, so that kinda weakens the argument.
Post 1249
Talks again about lynching a confirmed town but again self-preservation so no sway.
Post 1257
Completely drops me from scum reads without reasoning’s, but others have posted a lot more now so his reads on them may have just been more developed. We get his idea of scum teams as well, which is interesting, especially with the hindsight we now have.
Post 1260
Good explanation, good finger pointing as well.
Post 1262
Looks a lot like buddying to me.
Vote Count Post 1264
Post 1265
Interesting point, I missed it.
Post 1269 and Post 1270
Ok, so at the time I had no idea how this confirmed Reinforce as a scum, looking back man it was so blindingly obvious, DO NOT MISS THINGS LIKE THIS IN THE FUTURE.
Post 1274
And he explained it here, but I think I missed this post or something because I still wasn’t sure what was going on after this point
Post 1299
Nothing really wrong with this I am just wondering why does Celever care at this point?
Post 1304
Brings up the interesting things about the Reinforce, which lead me to believe Reinforce is scum although didn’t make me want to vote, not so sure why.
Vote Count Post 1325
Post 1335
Wow so much yet nothing to really comment on although bbninjas not being confirmed is something I can agree with even if I still believe bbninjas is town at this point.
Post 1338
Points out the oddity of scums night kills. I too question this quite heavily, although not quite to the same extent as I have nothing to doubt bbninjas at this point.
Post 1345
Love this point since it would be kind a terrifying for scum to have two seers to worry about. I am afraid however of that meaning scum might have a doctor which is how Reinforce managed to avoid the lynching, and that would in my opinion be broken (ignoring the fact I think being immune o being lynched is the most broken thing in the game and it is why I doubt Reinforces claim, at the very least doctors have some interesting play and counter-play)
Post 1351
Interesting theory that I really want to be true just because it would be awesome (Check this out after the game).
Post 1356
I should have written this earlier if I haven’t already, the biggest problem with waiting on lynch’s if the whine in front of me problem, the more time bought for scum, the more time they have to do things like protect, and shift focus. I am not saying this is what is happening with Celevers posts in regards to lynching Reinforce, but it is an issue we have to be wary of, especially since if Celever is on Reinforces scum team, buying him the extra day gives them another read, and gives them the night to start protecting Reinforce, especially if his role had something like cannot be lynched on odd days, or if they a doctor that doctor can only use their skill/ability on even nights.
Then there is also the point that doesn’t completely relate to Celever of if they can’t be lynched, and a scum is a major scum target then they can again by time by making people want to try to lynch someone that can’t actually be lynched, thus keeping their teammate alive. Ordinarily I don’t think lynch order matters much if at all, but in this game where everyone has abilities and skills lynch order really can start to matter.
Post 1375
Not 100% sure why that is anti-town, but whatever it is Empoleon_Master, I stopped caring about anything he was doing at this point
Post 1392
Not sure about some people, but sure about others, this reads as informed to me
Post 1393
Flips back onto Empoleon_Master when we are fairly sure we have a lynch target, but once yet again, self-preservation makes me not want to use this as a read
Post 1401
I would have to go back and reread every post to be sure, but I believe Celever has stated subjective content as fact so, you know, hypocrisy, however that is an easy mistake to make for anyone, so no read from this. Then Celever brings up an interesting point about people beggining to doubt the soft claims of Ice Espeon and Empoleon_Master, which Empoleon_Master maybe, so I guess by extension Ice Espeon, but anyway, this claim feels off to me.
Post 1404
Pushing the village idiot (not the role, I just got bored) bold, but understandable. I would like to know how different the game would be if this hadn’t happened though (I seemed to miss something out here, I assume I am talking about the Modkill)
Post 1409
Fair point here
Post 1427
Um, ok, nice to know, I would still like to know what caused him to change his mind about me though. Would have been nice if Celever had posted a little more information on scattered mind especially since he thought he was about to die. Unless, plot twist, he knew he wasn’t. But I mean, if he did, then foul play is a foot.
Post 1431
I missed whatever it was Celever said, and I find this to be really off putting that a mod has come in to remove something, if it was an accidental post (as in for something else) then I have to seriously question it since Celever seems to have kept a post there. Otherwise, why is a mod getting involved that seems like a line cross?
Vote Count Post 1432
Post 1435
Calling me for support when I have already kinda shown that I am not for lynching soft claimed/cleared town felt off, but that may have been forgotten since it was quite a while ago.
Post 1441 and Post 1443
Appeal to self-preservation.
Post 1448
I disagree with the helping the town more, Celever could just have easily been leading us towards lynching actual town members like Empoleon_Master.
Post 1449
More self-preservation.
Post 1453
Bad hosts, that is not good, arms should be out of game not in it, nothing like that should be confirmed.
Post 1463
I don’t care, it is still their fault, you should be alerted after you die, never before, that is just the hosts being too involved for my liking, it almost feels like preferential treatment.
Post 1469
Appeal to self-preservation.
Post 1477
Calls for turbo even though in the past he said the bbninjas and scattered mind are his biggest scum reads, so this feels like a predictive bandwagon jumping (since everyone should have seen the almost turbo starting).
Vote Count Day End Lynch thing Post 1492
Post 1524
Yes, although we don’t know if night time targets or not, so it is possible that someone else was targeted for the night kill and then that was redirected to GM DracLord. Someone said that earlier, I thought it was Celever but maybe not.
Claims to have claimed role, unfortunately I have no idea about this since I haven’t played Fire Emblem, and as such have no idea even if some of the revealed characters are scum or town or really what is going on in that regard.
Finally starts looking at scattered mind, something I have been interested in since he first announced that he thought scattered mind was scummy, but doesn’t actually post an evidence or opinions, just the vote.
Post 1545
Explains what happened with the mod post. I find it to be acceptable (just the post not the talking about it in skype) and it is good that Celever recognised it, still bad Vom.
Post 1550, Post 1553, Post 1554, Post 1557, Post 1559, Post 1561, Post 1563, Post 1565, Post 1571
Back pedal plus some other stuff, honestly over all it makes Celever look scummy, but I can also see where the “misunderstanding” occurs so I am discounting this series of posts. Do want to point out though that Celever looked fairly precise in the past, so I am not so sure why there was a slip in that quality here, it isn’t like people don’t do that and fatigue is a thing but still noteworthy.
Post 1575
This should probably go in no noteworthy, but I think it might be later.
Post 1576
Yes, you have said you think scattered mind is scum, but you didn’t put any relevant information in, which I find worrying, especially since others jumped onto that bandwagon, unless I missed something in which case this is mute. If you claim your role, but only one person who is scum notices, then red flags are raised.
Post 1579
Everyone role fishes, it is at least slight unavoidable if you are questioning people, Celever has role fished so another hypocritical statement that isn’t inherently aligned but when the person saying it thinks it is scummy I actually want to give credit to their belief
Post 1586
I don’t really think mass claims are ever really useful personally (at least not to town) but I don’t have experience with this, so I will yield my belief on this matter. Yea, here is where I think what with Celever again, you have to admit that 3/3 being wrong does not look good for you, that defense is weak if you could even call it that, however the attack is just as weak so yea.
Post 1589
Connections between Scattered Mind and pp, the meanie? I haven’t noticed any, but they haven’t exactly been on my radar. Theory is possible, but I will leave it at that.
Post 1591
Back to the PMJ turbo debacle.
Post 1595
Possible pressure shift onto quakingpunch73, which is odd, because several people haven’t posted reads lists (at least I think several people, I might be the only one who hasn’t).
Post 1601
I agree, everyone should do that especially subconsciously, it isn’t a tell in my opinion.
Post 1602
Another appeal maybe? I kinda wonder about the usage of the word, it makes sense in my mind, but sometimes I don’t others have the same meaning for the word.
Post 1625
Weird that Celever omits something on the second question, not really important since it doesn’t actually answer the question, but I would have expected it given his response to the first. Answer to seven while sounding correct also looks like a dodge to me.
Post 1638
Just an explanation.
Post 1641
I guess I can agree here although it is a little bit shaky.
Post 1643
Meh.
Post 1645
How are we not done with this already, I swear Camoclone knows what is going on and he is just beating a dead horse.
Post 1649
Noteworthy but nothing to comment on.
Post 1652
Calling me out again, liked by Scattered Mind interestingly enough, completely understand where Celever is coming from and his reasoning.
Post 1656
Yea, I would like to hear why Camoclone acted this way since so many people have questioned your two’s lack of fighting.
This is where I got to before my post, but I opened up some of the other tabs before I lost access again. Unfortunately not all managed to load, so I only got a couple more pages than I already had.
Post 1661
I have already stated my thoughts on reads lists, not bad for town, but also beneficial for scum.
Post 1670
Finally going to get the information I have been wanting for a while. Otherwise nothing else.
Post 1703
Ok, that is fine I guess, the biggest town sway Celever has given me is probably the fact that he would rather wait and give more discussion time than hammer, although that does have some scum implications as well, I feel over all it is more beneficial to town.
Post 1718
I agree with Celever on the exaggeration, I wasn’t aware that lots of posts on a topic was overly scummy but ok, I can see that more experience would give a larger sample pool for this fact, I however still don’t fully buy it. Celever points out the scum belief bias, something which I have been afraid I have been thinking about Celever for the best part of the game, so yea there is that.
Post 1720
I agree with Celever on the first point, and absolutely on the second point since out of everyone the person most comparable with me on this kind of a problem is Ice Espeon, although I will admit to not posting enough. I will explain that after the game, although I would hope that the size of this post would be an indication of why I haven’t posted huge amounts.
This was as far as I got
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