Finished Werewolf XXXI: Grima's Rebirth - GAME OVER! TOWN WINS!

[Celever]

Mine is an Ability though, not a skill.

Makes no difference.

Considering that simsands' posted fake claim turned out to be difficult to differentiate from an actual town role, you'd think that if I were posting a fake claim, I'd post something even better than what he posted. Instead, I posted something that's supposedly blatantly fake. Ironic, right?[/quoite]
WIFOM.

Outlandish doesn't equate to impossible. Every possibility exists as long as it hasn't been disproved with evidence on court, Phoenix.

But we can't prove it either way unless we kill you.

 

[Empoleon_master]

Can someone explain the Robin/Naga thing to me? I am again poor.

I also remembered something bbninjas has the ability because of that message over skype vom sent celever about the ability only working if he used perfect grammar.

 

[Celever]

Can someone explain the Robin/Naga thing to me? I am again poor.

I also remembered something bbninjas has the ability because of that message over skype vom sent celever about the ability only working if he used perfect grammar.

What needs explaining here? We haven't been talking about flavour, so you don't need the game.

That was a joke and sarcasm, so that log can't be used to validate anything.

 

[Camoclone]

Reading.

 

[Reinforce]

Makes no difference.

I think it does. You claim that GM Draclord/Robin had the role name seer capability as a Skill and so me having the same capability was redundant and thus made me more likely a fake/scum. But as you yourself postulated, Abilities and Skills have separate basis, so there's no problem with my Ability co-existing with Drac's Skill then?

But we can't prove it either way unless we kill you.

... Oh.

Ooooooh.

 

[Celever]

I think it does. You claim that GM Draclord/Robin had the role name seer capability as a Skill and so me having the same capability was redundant and thus made me more likely a fake/scum. But as you yourself postulated, Abilities and Skills have separate basis, so there's no problem with my Ability co-existing with Drac's Skill then?

The issue lies with the fact that Robin is a seer and then some, and you're just a seer. If you were both on the town, this would make no logical sense, and if something doesn't make sense, it isn't true. It's the whole basis of my theory that you cut up your role.

The only difference is that it meant Robin couldn't do damage in addition to gaining information because it was tied to his class, and that class doesn't have an offensive skill. If you have classes and you cut them out of your role, it just makes your role a little bit stronger, which would be justified if you're scum. If you don't have said classes, it makes your role substantially weaker, which doesn't make sense. So you're kinda scum either way here.

... Oh.

Ooooooh.

This is why speculation on these matters is a huge waste of time and overall quite confusing for the town.

 

[Camoclone]

@bbninjas- How is it logical that you are still alive? Why should the scum team fully believe when you said it is only one time use? seems odd to me.

This is WIFOM and is only relevant if he continues to play a key role in the game up until like Day 6 or so.

You know, looking at you guys' posts makes me feel like you're already decided and anything I say from now on isn't going to change your mind @_@

But here it is anyways. I think the simplest way to explain would be to claim my role and the results I got from it.



And here are results:

N1


N2


Yes, I did try for GM_Draclord, because I suspected the private communication he had with simsands, but I got re-directed. I'm not sure how the mechanics of tracking/watching results would work, but I probably still "officially" targeted GM_Draclord... That's what I suppose, anyway.

As for the kill on GM_Draclord, I was thinking and about to post this (before I ended up on the chopping block instead), but the flavor of his kill got me curious. Specifically, the part where it said Walhart was supposed to be the killer, but instead it was someone else. If the theory that Walhart's killing ability wasn't passed onto his team because it wasn't stated as such in the ability/role can be considered (unlike in my game and other previous WW games), then it might be an indie kill. The OP did state we may have a third faction of Independents at work here, which could also give a possible explanation on why it couldn't be tracked/watched. I've seen before some indie kills that tend to be given special properties like that.

That's a couple of my theories, if you guys are still willing to read them and aren't trapped in the thought bubble that 'Reinforce is scum!' and got your minds closed to alternative possibilities already.

Thanks for revealing who I am. What I don't understand is if a portal was used on me why did you get my role name?

Camo as Lon'qu...that cannot be confirmed at this point.

It can be sofy confirmed.

In a game like this, where canon characters match their canon alignment, a role cop is basically a full seer anyway...

I don't know FE. Can someone confirm this to be true based off the current flips we have?

 

[Camoclone]

Nothing in my role explains this situation. I'm going to reread again and ISO Simsand's posts.

 

[Camoclone]

Can anyone confirm if a Portal was used?

 

[Professor Palutena]

In regards to EM wagon that briefly started; is it a policy lynch or a he's-probably-scum lynch?

From my perspective, it's a wagon to test the Chrom and Lissa claims. They could be safe claims fabricated between two scumbuddies, as PMJ suggested.

And if we have to choose between one of E_m and IE to keep around, I feel like the choice is kinda obvious.

An Indie ninja? That's quite an outlandish claim, ngl. In the OP it says scumteams alternate nightkills. Are you really suggesting that the ninja would have little power until one of the scum leaders dies? A lot of players would find that unfair. It's a possibility, but it just makes far less sense than the nightkill being passed down and that clause not being put in the role PM. Wouldn't be the first time that's happened on this site, even.

Serial Killer with the ninja modifier isn't really that outlandish.

If both scum teams cannot pass down their night kills, having a serial killer would stop the town from having a brutally easy win (especially considering it's possible that both scum leaders could be killed in a single day/night cycle) . It seems somewhat plausible from a balancing standpoint.

That said, I'm only considering it as plausible in the event that Reinforce doesn't flip Valmese.

I don't know FE. Can someone confirm this to be true based off the current flips we have?

This is 100% true as far as current flips go.

Still is true if we consider the Frederick safeclaim.

Can anyone confirm if a Portal was used?

Considering Draclord was the redirector and as far as I can tell, nothing suggests that it was a portal vs. Drac's ability, we may not be able to confirm it.

 

[Camoclone]

Considering Draclord was the redirector and as far as I can tell, nothing suggests that it was a portal vs. Drac's ability, we may not be able to confirm it.

I forgot he was a redirector. Let me reread real quick with that in mind.

 

[Celever]

Thanks for revealing who I am. What I don't understand is if a portal was used on me why did you get my role name?

Well, it's possible that the Rift Door RF posted is different to what was used on GM Drac and Camo last night. Thinking about this more rationally, mordacazir's ability targeting Camo was redirected off of Camo onto GM Drac. This means that the nightkill was too (if it was a strongman or anything that would be mentioned in the role itself). So GM Drac wasn't the target of the nightkill at all -- Camo was.

GM Drac was the redirector and he targeted two of me, EM and Camo with his redirecting role, and scanned the other. Right now I think it's somewhat likely that he scanned me, just given the general feel of the thread (which makes me doubly salty he died last night Dx), so that means EM and Camo would have been forced to target each other with this theory. This means that his redirect doesn't have any relevance to this scenario. I only talked about it because someone mentioned that it might.

I think it's more likely than anything else that it was a two-way redirector -- anyone targeting Camo targeted GM Drac, and anyone targeting GM Drac targeted Camo instead. It's the only thing that makes sense. The alternative is that two Rift Doors were used last night on the same two targets, both in different directions. This would be a mad coincidence, or just orchestrated somewhat intelligently by anyone without communication outside the thread.

I don't know FE. Can someone confirm this to be true based off the current flips we have?

Well, it's not an end-all. The town faction is called the Shepherds, and various players on evil factions join the Shepherds later in the game, namely Yen'fay, Gangrel, Aversa and Walhart. However, no Shepherds ever betray the Shepherds (besides sort of Robin, but he's confirmed town).

Role name seers won't be able to deduce abilities or even class skills thanks to reclassing, so it's not the same as a full seer in that extent either.

If there is a hypothetical seer who can scan for abilities, most will be able to figure out the players if they have a FE knowledge.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Role name seers won't be able to deduce abilities or even class skills thanks to reclassing, so it's not the same as a full seer in that extent either.

Correct, but it would absolutely be beneficial as each class only learns two abilities in FE which narrows down class skills a ton.

Like I can almost guarantee that bbninjas, if he is Libra, who is a War Monk, has the class skills Rally Luck and Renewal. No idea what Rally Luck could do, but I'm wagering it would involve him targeting a player akin to Draclord's Rally Spectrum and Squirtle Squad's Rally Speed. Renewal has some kind of healing aspect behind it because it has some kind of healing aspect in the game.

Because Vom and Keeper are so far sticking to canon reclasses, I know that bbninjas, again assuming he is Libra, can reclass to either Dark Mage or Mage, which further gives him access to Sorcerer, Sage and Dark Knight for reclassing.

(fyi this kind of stuff is why I hate games that stick to canon flavor because flavor discussion can be akin to scumhunting which takes a lot of the logic out of the game. knowing the source material should not give an advantage to any player imo)

The alternative is that two Rift Doors were used last night on the same two targets, both in different directions. This would be a mad coincidence, or just orchestrated somewhat intelligently by anyone without communication outside the thread.

Wouldn't the second Rift Door show up in Morda's report?

Unrelated to Celever's post: I'm unsure what to think of Reinforce right now. From what it sounds like, his claim as a name cop checks out and because of how useful a name cop is in a setup that adheres so closely to canon, I think it might be beneficial to keep him around. That said, he'll be an easy target for night kills right now.

If his claim does not check out, I'm fairly willing to bet that one of bbninjas and Camo are his scumbuddies.

Also in thinking about the Naga claim, Naga has some role in the flavor. This doesn't strike me as weird because Chrom also has a role in the flavor. That said, if the Naga claim is not legitimate, it does make me doubt that E_m is Chrom because Chrom is also involved in the flavor.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Missed this part...

Well, it's not an end-all. The town faction is called the Shepherds, and various players on evil factions join the Shepherds later in the game, namely Yen'fay, Gangrel, Aversa and Walhart. However, no Shepherds ever betray the Shepherds (besides sort of Robin, but he's confirmed town).

Simsands flipping as Walhart pretty much confirms that the bonus characters stick to their traditional alignment.

However, that does bring up the idea of Priam, the one guy in the game who has no alignment and would therefore be the perfect role for an independent.

That said, I'll leave that train of thought there because pursuing that flavor right now isn't going to get me anywhere.

 

[Empoleon_master]

Fyi my only other ability is one use and you would know when I use it.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Fyi my only other ability is one use and you would know when I use it.

Thank you for continuing to be as cryptic as hell...

 

[Celever]

Correct, but it would absolutely be beneficial as each class only learns two abilities in FE which narrows down class skills a ton.

Like I can almost guarantee that bbninjas, if he is Libra, who is a War Monk, has the class skills Rally Luck and Renewal. No idea what Rally Luck could do, but I'm wagering it would involve him targeting a player akin to Draclord's Rally Spectrum and Squirtle Squad's Rally Speed. Renewal has some kind of healing aspect behind it because it has some kind of healing aspect in the game.

Because Vom and Keeper are so far sticking to canon reclasses, I know that bbninjas, again assuming he is Libra, can reclass to either Dark Mage or Mage, which further gives him access to Sorcerer, Sage and Dark Knight for reclassing.

(fyi this kind of stuff is why I hate games that stick to canon flavor because flavor discussion can be akin to scumhunting which takes a lot of the logic out of the game. knowing the source material should not give an advantage to any player imo)

But in the end that accomplishes nothing without actually knowing what class bb is in at that exact moment in time.

Wouldn't the second Rift Door show up in Morda's report?

Maybe items don't? We don't know at this stage. I don't think we can rule out mod error, either.

Unrelated to Celever's post: I'm unsure what to think of Reinforce right now. From what it sounds like, his claim as a name cop checks out and because of how useful a name cop is in a setup that adheres so closely to canon, I think it might be beneficial to keep him around. That said, he'll be an easy target for night kills right now.

If his claim does not check out, I'm fairly willing to bet that one of bbninjas and Camo are his scumbuddies.

Because RF kills on even nights, we could keep him around for Night 3 so that we learn another role name I guess? I still don't fully trust any info that we get from him now that he knows he's on the chopping block, though.

Also in thinking about the Naga claim, Naga has some role in the flavor. This doesn't strike me as weird because Chrom also has a role in the flavor. That said, if the Naga claim is not legitimate, it does make me doubt that E_m is Chrom because Chrom is also involved in the flavor.

Scum were given safes by hosts, so I doubt the flavour illegitimises the claims on that front.

Missed this part...

Simsands flipping as Walhart pretty much confirms that the bonus characters stick to their traditional alignment.

However, that does bring up the idea of Priam, the one guy in the game who has no alignment and would therefore be the perfect role for an independent.

That said, I'll leave that train of thought there because pursuing that flavor right now isn't going to get me anywhere.

Maybe as far as Gangrel and Aversa are concerned, but Yen'fay was never really a bad guy anyway, just an enemy boss. That might change things a bit.

And good point with Priam. I was struggling to think of a good indie role, but Priam makes perfect sense.

Fyi my only other ability is one use and you would know when I use it.

This doesn't help us.

 

[Reinforce]

Because RF kills on even nights, we could keep him around for Night 3 so that we learn another role name I guess? I still don't fully trust any info that we get from him now that he knows he's on the chopping block, though.

You know, looking at you guys' posts makes me feel like you're already decided and anything I say from now on isn't going to change your mind @_@

That's a couple of my theories, if you guys are still willing to read them and aren't trapped in the thought bubble that 'Reinforce is scum!' and got your minds closed to alternative possibilities already.

I rest my case.

 

[Scattered mind]

That is a repetition of AtE.

 

[Camoclone]

##VOTE: REINFORCE