The time has come- a sequel to the popular "XD: Gale of Darkness" is long overdue. This may still be quite the wait for such a game, if one were to even come this generation, but one can still hope, dream, and speculate. Me? I'd want a diverse story that still stays to its roots- The Orre Region. I figure that Cipher has been done to death, despite being my favorite evil team of the Pokemon world. I wouldn't mind a new region, as long as it isn't the same ridiculous thing as Battle Revolution. I would've liked this game nearly 100 times more had there been an actual story mode. I was extremely dissapointed. So, tell us- would you like a sequel to XD? If so, what would you want done differently? What would you want to be done the same? If not, why? Would you prefer another Battle Revolution? Discuss!
BW/BW2 What do YOU want from an XD sequel?
- Thread starter SinnohTrainer17
- Start date
Another Battle Revolution wouldn't be bad at all, I don't think, if they actually gave it some good treatment. A look at the early trailers for PBR proves that it lost a lot of interesting content in its final stages, probably due to release deadlines or something. So if they were to really flesh it out, even without a real story (other than 'can this trainer beat each colosseum?' I mean) I'd be for it.
But personally, I'd love a new story-driven game like Colosseum or XD. I have lots of nice memories from Colosseum. I thought it was very well done, surprisingly mature for a Pokemon game. Plus the some of the music in those games is my favorite in the series (see Colosseum - First Battle, Relic Forest, Phenac City; and XD - Miror B. Battle, S.S. Libra).
Were they to actually make the game, I'd prefer an entirely new direction - no Shadow Pokemon, no Orre. It's not that I didn't like those concepts, it's just that they've been used and fleshed out plenty in two games now, and I think some change in concept would be welcome.
But personally, I'd love a new story-driven game like Colosseum or XD. I have lots of nice memories from Colosseum. I thought it was very well done, surprisingly mature for a Pokemon game. Plus the some of the music in those games is my favorite in the series (see Colosseum - First Battle, Relic Forest, Phenac City; and XD - Miror B. Battle, S.S. Libra).
Were they to actually make the game, I'd prefer an entirely new direction - no Shadow Pokemon, no Orre. It's not that I didn't like those concepts, it's just that they've been used and fleshed out plenty in two games now, and I think some change in concept would be welcome.
I agree on everything you've said. Had they fleshed it out more, I'd love the game. However, when it comes to Pokemon games, I'm not into just the battling. The story is what makes or breaks it for me. Imo, Colosseum and XD had the best stories and music in the entire series. I felt like it wasn't just about the battling. I wouldn't mind seeing a different concept aside from shadow Pokemon, but I would hope that they keep the "evil team" aspect. I would only like to see Orre if it was a bit farther into the future- say 15 or 20 years. I would like to see quite a few new towns and etc. So a bit of a mix between XD and BR would be totally cool with me. Obviously, if they had incorporated PokePark into Orre as a side quest no one would've bagged on it.
Heh my dream is for gamefreak to one day have their games feature the kind of map exploration like what you see in Colosseum/XD, with a full 3D world and seamless battles. But I don't think we'll see a Nintendo handheld system capable of pulling that off for the next 10 years.
Pokepark had real time battles, which is a cool concept I'd like to see more in future.
Pokepark had real time battles, which is a cool concept I'd like to see more in future.
@XieRH: LOL, *sigh*- one could hope and dream of such a device 
It's definitely not impossible for something like that to come out in the near future.
I've always wondered what it'd be like to have Colosseum or XD on the DSi rather than a GameCube. It'd definitely be neat, wouldn't it?
It's definitely not impossible for something like that to come out in the near future.
I've always wondered what it'd be like to have Colosseum or XD on the DSi rather than a GameCube. It'd definitely be neat, wouldn't it?
I'm surprised no "inb4Zero" here. XD was a terrible game followed up by PBR which doesn't deserve to be called a game. PBR was just Nintendo milking their cash cow. All PBR offered was poorly designed 3D models for pokemon... and another haxtower. The only worthwhile element of PBR was random online battling... which should have been in the games to begin with. Don't support Nintendo's spin-offs. You said that XD was popular, and I'll agree. I'd say that PBR and CIRCLES (that one game that appears to have photoshoped the Pokemon logos and sprites) too. That does not mean that the games are good and deserve sequels.
TBH, the console games were somewhat of a bad idea to begin with. The XD/Gale games were... an attempt at making a video game I guess. It strayed to far from the Pokemon formula, however. The fact that they tried to have a story is... funny. I've seen fanfic better than what some of the official Nintendo writers have come up with. They should just give up on story telling if they are to make stand-alone titles. To be honest, the pokemon theme is really collecting guys and battling with your friends. Battling with your friends is much easier when you are there with them. The DS does local battles just fine... we don't need the wii to help. Thus, a stand-alone game cannot be made for that either. Playing online now is ALSO done by the DS just fine (plus it now has a real hack-check). We also have Hax tower/subway so we don't need a game for that. In summary, why would they make another wii game with some effort put into it? We already have everything that we'd need for the main-pokemon games. Insulting my intelligence with another half-thought-out-story-that-takes-itself-way-too-seriously would just be a waste. XD and PBR themed games should just be thrown out. Because Pokemon is one of Nintendo's biggest cash-cows that they have to put literally no effort into except for 3D modeling and hiring that AWESOME announcer guy, they're gonna make a new B/W wii "game" almost undoubtedly. Should you buy it? ABSOLUTALLY NOT. Don't support them putting zero effort into "games" anymore.
What I would like to see on the wii is a more thought-out spin-off. For its time, Snap was a great game. I felt it to be the child-friendly version of Golden Eye for its time. I would even put it slightly ahead of Golden Eye... which was a fantastic game. I do NOT want a remake of Snap. What we do need is Pokemon trying to take other genres and make them better. They tried doing that with PMD but failed to a degree. CIRCLES... ew... they just failed at what I wouldn't consider a genre to begin with. Puzzle League was also a worthwhile game. Once again though, they SHOULD NOT mash up PL again. Perhaps we should see a form of a platformer? The wii seems to be VERY GOOD for platformers. I can see it working. Perhaps have different themed levels based on Pokemon with many different objectives based on your type and attacks (i.e. put ice stairs on ground to get through a puzzle... or just fly around a puzzle). This might actually be a worthwhile spinoff to buy.
Before anybody goes nagging me about how Spinoffs are not usually good, stop it. Paper Mario was an amazing game that took literally nothing story-wise and made it entertaining. Paper Mario had about the same budget as what Pokemon should have... perhaps that budget in pokemon should go towards actually entertaining the fans instead of entertaining the developers with... who knows what they do.
TBH, the console games were somewhat of a bad idea to begin with. The XD/Gale games were... an attempt at making a video game I guess. It strayed to far from the Pokemon formula, however. The fact that they tried to have a story is... funny. I've seen fanfic better than what some of the official Nintendo writers have come up with. They should just give up on story telling if they are to make stand-alone titles. To be honest, the pokemon theme is really collecting guys and battling with your friends. Battling with your friends is much easier when you are there with them. The DS does local battles just fine... we don't need the wii to help. Thus, a stand-alone game cannot be made for that either. Playing online now is ALSO done by the DS just fine (plus it now has a real hack-check). We also have Hax tower/subway so we don't need a game for that. In summary, why would they make another wii game with some effort put into it? We already have everything that we'd need for the main-pokemon games. Insulting my intelligence with another half-thought-out-story-that-takes-itself-way-too-seriously would just be a waste. XD and PBR themed games should just be thrown out. Because Pokemon is one of Nintendo's biggest cash-cows that they have to put literally no effort into except for 3D modeling and hiring that AWESOME announcer guy, they're gonna make a new B/W wii "game" almost undoubtedly. Should you buy it? ABSOLUTALLY NOT. Don't support them putting zero effort into "games" anymore.
What I would like to see on the wii is a more thought-out spin-off. For its time, Snap was a great game. I felt it to be the child-friendly version of Golden Eye for its time. I would even put it slightly ahead of Golden Eye... which was a fantastic game. I do NOT want a remake of Snap. What we do need is Pokemon trying to take other genres and make them better. They tried doing that with PMD but failed to a degree. CIRCLES... ew... they just failed at what I wouldn't consider a genre to begin with. Puzzle League was also a worthwhile game. Once again though, they SHOULD NOT mash up PL again. Perhaps we should see a form of a platformer? The wii seems to be VERY GOOD for platformers. I can see it working. Perhaps have different themed levels based on Pokemon with many different objectives based on your type and attacks (i.e. put ice stairs on ground to get through a puzzle... or just fly around a puzzle). This might actually be a worthwhile spinoff to buy.
Before anybody goes nagging me about how Spinoffs are not usually good, stop it. Paper Mario was an amazing game that took literally nothing story-wise and made it entertaining. Paper Mario had about the same budget as what Pokemon should have... perhaps that budget in pokemon should go towards actually entertaining the fans instead of entertaining the developers with... who knows what they do.
I can't wait for something like this! I want to see the gen 5 pokemon in a wii game!
SinnohTrainer17 said:
It's called the PSP.
Nintendo doesn't really focus on high end graphics. The Wii and the DS both have selling points that are not graphics-oriented, but rather, some other innovation (some might say tacky gimmick) like having 2 screens and motion-sensing.
Zero said:
I've seen better lots of stuffs tbh. Let's take art for an example, some of the guys over on pixiv I would really love to see replace Sugimori. In fact as far as games are concerned I've seen better games than what the pokemon company has come up with too
and yet here we all still are... because we still love pokemon don't we?Well first off, this is Game Freak we're dealing with here, Zero, not Nintendo. Nintendo spin-offs can most definitely be supported (as you even pointed at with Paper Mario). You mean Game Freak spin-offs. Nintendo only publishes Pokemon games; they have no real hand in development. It's not Nintendo's lack of effort, it's Game Freak's. It's not Nintendo's writers, it's Game Freak's.
Anyhow, I agree with you to some extent; they most certainly didn't put much effort into PBR. I honestly think PBR had a bad production deadline or something along those lines. The trailers for it originally showed many interesting features like battles actually affecting the battlefield. Of course, something like that would be a huge project to integrate into the game, given all the moves and Pokemon there are possible that have to be accounted for, so it's almost understandable. Still, the lack of effort and thought is pretty evident.
I disagree with you about the purpose of the game though. Sure Pokemon as we know it is about battling and training with friends and such, but if one wants to tell a story or change the gameplay concept, why shouldn't a spin-off be able to do that? Granted, they may not have done such a great job at it in the past, but I don't think the effort itself is a negative thing just because the main series Pokemon is about training and battling and social stuff. Like you said with Mario spin-offs - main series Mario (as close as you can argueably get) is 2D and 3D platformers (as in 2D Super Mario Bros-esque and 3D Super Mario Galaxy-esque). But they branch off all the time to deliver vastly different spin-offs. Sure these spin-offs are well thought out and made with heart whereas as most of the Pokemon spin-offs aren't (barring PMD of course), but the effort in making the spin-off certainly isn't bad itself just because the main games have a different focus.
But you thought PMD was a failed attempt at bringing Pokemon to another genre? If anything, I'd argue that Pokemon was a seamless match for MD gameplay. Plus, the stories (PMD2/3 in particular) were actually very well thought out and expertly delivered, at least compared to the main series games and other spin-offs.
By the way, you only nagged about XD and PBR. Might you have positive feelings for Colosseum? Personally, I thought it was well done, but the other two I'd have to agree with you for the most about.
Anyhow, I agree with you to some extent; they most certainly didn't put much effort into PBR. I honestly think PBR had a bad production deadline or something along those lines. The trailers for it originally showed many interesting features like battles actually affecting the battlefield. Of course, something like that would be a huge project to integrate into the game, given all the moves and Pokemon there are possible that have to be accounted for, so it's almost understandable. Still, the lack of effort and thought is pretty evident.
I disagree with you about the purpose of the game though. Sure Pokemon as we know it is about battling and training with friends and such, but if one wants to tell a story or change the gameplay concept, why shouldn't a spin-off be able to do that? Granted, they may not have done such a great job at it in the past, but I don't think the effort itself is a negative thing just because the main series Pokemon is about training and battling and social stuff. Like you said with Mario spin-offs - main series Mario (as close as you can argueably get) is 2D and 3D platformers (as in 2D Super Mario Bros-esque and 3D Super Mario Galaxy-esque). But they branch off all the time to deliver vastly different spin-offs. Sure these spin-offs are well thought out and made with heart whereas as most of the Pokemon spin-offs aren't (barring PMD of course), but the effort in making the spin-off certainly isn't bad itself just because the main games have a different focus.
But you thought PMD was a failed attempt at bringing Pokemon to another genre? If anything, I'd argue that Pokemon was a seamless match for MD gameplay. Plus, the stories (PMD2/3 in particular) were actually very well thought out and expertly delivered, at least compared to the main series games and other spin-offs.
By the way, you only nagged about XD and PBR. Might you have positive feelings for Colosseum? Personally, I thought it was well done, but the other two I'd have to agree with you for the most about.
And what? The PSP doesn't even have the power of the Gamecube :s
@Zero, I wouldn't say XD was a terrible game. Sure, it had it's flaws, and at the end of the day it's simply a modified Colosseum, but it was a decent game, and that seems to be the general opinion. However, I respect your opinion and I definitely see where you're coming from. You prove some very valid points throughout. I'll easily admit that BR was quite a poor game with which little effort was put into and was no doubt the worst of the three. I wouldn't mind a fresh, different spin-off game at all. While I'd like to see something along the lines of Colosseum, a different kind of a spinoff could be very interesting, no doubt. Thank you, Zero. I'm glad I can hear both sides of the arguement, you've opened my eyes to some very valid points.
Why are you guys bashing on the Shadow Pokemon? I kinda liked the concept of Shadow Pokemon. I thought it was fun and intuitive. I hope they make another Shadow Pokemon game where you start with a Riolu that saw the "Shadowy Aura" in others. That would be awesome.
Games like Colloseum/XD had more story than the mainstream handheld games at the time. I'm all for the return of Shadow Pokemon
Games like Colloseum/XD had more story than the mainstream handheld games at the time. I'm all for the return of Shadow Pokemon
Shadow Pokemon didn't add anything to the story. They were just a tedious task that added a thin paper of content to the already formulaic system. They were not fun... just different. The story is the exact reason why these games were poor. There was too much story that might as well have been fanfic from a 5th grader. Games like Blue, Green, and Red were good because they didn't have a story.
As for Claus, I had a total brain-fart as to Game Freak vs Nintendo... I'm just being stupid. It doesn't change the fact that some level of quality should be expected from the producers. You say that the worthwhile-ness in PBR would be difficult and expensive... yeah... that's why they didn't do it. The technology was most certainly there. They just didn't bother. PMD is considered good for a Pokemon spin off, but if you have played anything in that genre, you'd know that PMD was lacking for the genre. And once again, there was too much plot focus for my tastes. Why make us go hunt Dusknoir when it really wasn't worth it for the player? I've talked to a few people about this... there was no engagement between the player and the story. They rushed through the main quests to get to the mission board more freely. By the time a plot point happened, the player really stopped caring.
To be fair, story can be included in the games. It NEEDS to be self-depriciating humor however. The writers need to make fun of themselves sometimes. THAT is the real issue with these spin-offs... they take themselves too seriously. The XD/Gale games considered themselves to be earth shattering... but they really weren't. Look at Paper Mario, once again. We all know the formula to Mario games:
. Paper Mario kinda made fun of that. Look at Thousand Year Door... Peach eventually became evil and attacked Bowser. That could have taken itself very seriously because... it kind of was... but the game laughed at itself and commented about the role reversal. In SPM, the game opened by Bowser and Peach getting married. That scene was admittedly slightly off and the game clearly pointed that out. If we were to see a Pokemon story, we NEED to see one that doesn't take itself too seriously. We can have EVIL POKEMON PEOPLE... but perhaps they should question why they are doing it... maybe it was their father's business and they questioned the actual monotary value of pokemon... idk. A good writer writes, a great writer picks apart what he/she writes. Because of this servere lack of good writers, I would highly suggest we just skip to game-play oriented games. Even that has been done poorly with the LONG LIST of bad games (Hey Pikachu, Pokemon Dash, Pokemon Channel, and CIRCLES to name a few). I'm sure that I can make better games than some of the spin-offs by my lonesome.
Finally, the reason I didn't nag on Collo is because I know I've wasted WEEKS of my life playing those gosh darn minigames. I didn't even play through the battles part of Collo2... 100% of my gameplay time was in the minigames. If we have a minigame collection for wii... I would be very satisfied (as long as it is worthwhile). Those games were nearly perfect... they really were.
As for Claus, I had a total brain-fart as to Game Freak vs Nintendo... I'm just being stupid. It doesn't change the fact that some level of quality should be expected from the producers. You say that the worthwhile-ness in PBR would be difficult and expensive... yeah... that's why they didn't do it. The technology was most certainly there. They just didn't bother. PMD is considered good for a Pokemon spin off, but if you have played anything in that genre, you'd know that PMD was lacking for the genre. And once again, there was too much plot focus for my tastes. Why make us go hunt Dusknoir when it really wasn't worth it for the player? I've talked to a few people about this... there was no engagement between the player and the story. They rushed through the main quests to get to the mission board more freely. By the time a plot point happened, the player really stopped caring.
To be fair, story can be included in the games. It NEEDS to be self-depriciating humor however. The writers need to make fun of themselves sometimes. THAT is the real issue with these spin-offs... they take themselves too seriously. The XD/Gale games considered themselves to be earth shattering... but they really weren't. Look at Paper Mario, once again. We all know the formula to Mario games:
Bowser kidnaps Peach... Mario saves peach... Bowser gets owned... Peach thanks Mario
Finally, the reason I didn't nag on Collo is because I know I've wasted WEEKS of my life playing those gosh darn minigames. I didn't even play through the battles part of Collo2... 100% of my gameplay time was in the minigames. If we have a minigame collection for wii... I would be very satisfied (as long as it is worthwhile). Those games were nearly perfect... they really were.
Boddy903 said:
A good idea does not necessarily translate into a good end product. In the industry of games, tons of good ideas were ruined by lousy implementation, or (in less extreme cases) produced a mediocre or sub-par result.
We don't have to focus on a single game alone, each of us has probably in the past played one game or another, and had that gut feeling that it could've been so much better if it were just handled in some different manner... that's the feeling of unrealised potential in the game. And really it's not surprising, most developers don't have the sheer luxury of time to realise the full potential of an idea.
As far as the shadow pokemon are concerned, IMO it's just a tamer, more PG-friendly version of the Darkened pokemon from that celebi movie. As far as "evil" pokemon are concerned in general, it's nothing new. Every pokemon that has ever fought on the side of a villainous team in the games can be argued to be "evil" to a certain extent.
Zero said:
There isn't really a set standard for that. You can't quantify 'quality' into something that is discrete and measurable. That is why some people can be satisfied with the quality of a certain game (like colosseum or XD), while others can't. In general it's not so much of a quality issue than it is a case of personal opinions varying from individual to individual. I myself have not been satisfied by any game that came out after Emerald (and that includes GameFreak's stuff).
Um, what does this have to do with Black and White!?
@Masterge: This forum is for Black and White/5th Generation Discussion, so I figured that being a potential 5th generation game, it belongs in this forum.
@Boddy903: We're not exactly bashing the shadow Pokemon concept, moreso are we bashing the execution of the concept. It had its flaws, I'll admit. I didn't mind it, however. Pretty much the only reason that I enjoyed it was because it was the only useful way to add to my team (the useless Zubat/Hoppip/Sandshrew Pokespots were useless). Speaking of which, I would really like to see the Pokespots added to, possibly even being routes between cities. I wanted more of a handheld game like region, as this was like "K UR IN PYRITE TOWN, LULZ NAO UR IN PHENAC CITY". It was strange, and I feel that the addition of more wild Pokemon throughout the region in these games would be WONDERFUL, imo.
@Boddy903: We're not exactly bashing the shadow Pokemon concept, moreso are we bashing the execution of the concept. It had its flaws, I'll admit. I didn't mind it, however. Pretty much the only reason that I enjoyed it was because it was the only useful way to add to my team (the useless Zubat/Hoppip/Sandshrew Pokespots were useless). Speaking of which, I would really like to see the Pokespots added to, possibly even being routes between cities. I wanted more of a handheld game like region, as this was like "K UR IN PYRITE TOWN, LULZ NAO UR IN PHENAC CITY". It was strange, and I feel that the addition of more wild Pokemon throughout the region in these games would be WONDERFUL, imo.
its gen 3, and people are discussing remakes for gen 5, and this is the gen 5 section, so why not?
and i would probably guess XD is still new enough that it doesn't need a remake. if they had to, i'd bet on colosseum instead with the XD additions added in or something.
hopefully we get Ruby sapphire and emerald remakes with the emerald additions kept, and or FR/LG/B/R/Y remakes.
the only spinoffs i ever bought were from the gen 1 games up to gen 3
the gen 4 spinoffs were too weird, especially the newer ranger games and the mystery dungeon games, which had too much dialogue.
i remember battle revolution was supposed to have real field damage added to the special effects, but they cut it out because of the game ratings, which is why i didnt buy it.
and i would probably guess XD is still new enough that it doesn't need a remake. if they had to, i'd bet on colosseum instead with the XD additions added in or something.
hopefully we get Ruby sapphire and emerald remakes with the emerald additions kept, and or FR/LG/B/R/Y remakes.
the only spinoffs i ever bought were from the gen 1 games up to gen 3
the gen 4 spinoffs were too weird, especially the newer ranger games and the mystery dungeon games, which had too much dialogue.
i remember battle revolution was supposed to have real field damage added to the special effects, but they cut it out because of the game ratings, which is why i didnt buy it.
worded this wrong earlier: I never really got the reason to keep playing PBR. If there is no plot whats the point? I know that the main-series games have little plot, but at least there is something. I never really had a problem with XD or colloseum except for the annoyance of purifying shadow pokemon.
Fantastic, another thread dedicated to the grumblings of unappreaciative fans.
It's worth bearing in mind that NOBODY is forcing you to buy these games. You are solely responsible for your purchases, there is no point WHATSOEVER in complaining about the games' quaility 4/5 years after they were released. Another point fot you 'it's all about money' claimers to bear in mind is, (which is more of a balancer than an argument), that your right. Nintendo is a company, just like all others, for the purpose of scooping in the dough. They will create some games that are worse than others, but in the end, the net result is that they will lose out on profit. Therefore, they will not try to make poor games, it is of the public's opinion. I will reiterate this once more, it is up to you the games you buy.
Finally, those finding yet more fault with the designs - stop whinging. You are not the person who creates these Pokemon, and each one will be carefully reviewed.
To summarize, if you all you can find to discuss about Pokemon are the negatives, why do you play?
It's worth bearing in mind that NOBODY is forcing you to buy these games. You are solely responsible for your purchases, there is no point WHATSOEVER in complaining about the games' quaility 4/5 years after they were released. Another point fot you 'it's all about money' claimers to bear in mind is, (which is more of a balancer than an argument), that your right. Nintendo is a company, just like all others, for the purpose of scooping in the dough. They will create some games that are worse than others, but in the end, the net result is that they will lose out on profit. Therefore, they will not try to make poor games, it is of the public's opinion. I will reiterate this once more, it is up to you the games you buy.
Finally, those finding yet more fault with the designs - stop whinging. You are not the person who creates these Pokemon, and each one will be carefully reviewed.
To summarize, if you all you can find to discuss about Pokemon are the negatives, why do you play?
I don't think we'll get an XD sequel. Mainly because by next year the 3DS will be out, boasting gamecube-like 3D graphics. They'll probably expand on the 3D effects in Black and White to make a main series remake or new 6th gen game in the style of XD and Colosseum. Eventually the series will move on to the next nintendo handheld (3DS) so to take advantage of the graphics they would develop a game similar to XD, but with main series attributes (like tall grass, routes, etc.)
@ShinjiSan: Well, were not talking about REMAKES, we're talking about a sequel or a spinoff. Not something exactly the same, but possibly something different. I'm not sure what exactly gave you that idea ._.
@AatM: No one is bagging on the games- Zero merely gave a respectful opinion and happened to prove several valid points throughout. Also, I don't see anyone complaining/whining about the designs of Pokemon. I have no idea what you're talking about ._. Thirdly, people discuss the negatives to point out the flaws in the game. Are you telling me that you've never played a game that you ended up hating? I know I and many others here have.
@AatM: No one is bagging on the games- Zero merely gave a respectful opinion and happened to prove several valid points throughout. Also, I don't see anyone complaining/whining about the designs of Pokemon. I have no idea what you're talking about ._. Thirdly, people discuss the negatives to point out the flaws in the game. Are you telling me that you've never played a game that you ended up hating? I know I and many others here have.