What does it take to win a BR or a City event?

shadoworganoid

shadoworganoid

"Crimson Dance, Yugetsu!"
Member
Im trying to make this post and leave OUT any emotions. Im trying to approach this in an educated manner. I would really appreciate some constructive feed back.

The grand question here is "what does it take to win a big tourny?"

I have never won a Battle Road event, a City event or even a League tourny. I've played for.....2 years now I think.

I know the first thing I have to do, is pick a good deck that im comfortable with.

Then I have to practice and practice.
Ok... Ive been going to league almost every single week.


Now here's the thing; Luck.

Luck plays a HUGE part into this doesnt it?
-What your starting hand is.
-What you top draw.
-Coin flips.
-ECT.

All too often I watch the other play get a T1 Claydol followed by a T1 (main attacker).
Meanwhile im not even set up by T5. (ex)


Luck SHOULD be what does this to me right?
Its common sense that NO deck is "perfect".
There will always be a certain level of luck in each game.


I guess what Im trying to figure out is; If luck negatively affects me so much, then How is it that many other players go and win 4 or 5 CC each season?

These other players make their moves as though "practice" affects the luck of the draw.


What am I doing wrong that is preventing me from winning?
 
Preparation, luck, and doing your best basically. Considering that BR's and Cities is setup to where you play one game per match instead of best 2 out of 3 it does kind of hurt your chances of making a comeback against the same opponent however If you draw good on your first game and get a good setup going then you should do alright.

If you want to win a big tourny you have to be undefeated in all your rounds until you've made the Top 4 in the Finals. Players who play to determine who comes in 1st and 2nd place play best 2 out of 3. If you're defeated in the 1st round you can still play a certain number of rounds usually 5 rounds to try to improve your win/loss record for the season.

Every matchup is different and you don't know what to expect but expect the unexpected, you might end up playing against a deck that's in your favor but in another one it might come to your opponent's favor instead. Luck also does play a huge role in it, If your meta is varied like mine then do your best, If not then that could give you an advantage depending on what you're playing against.

About one of your last questions regarding participating in 8 City Champs in one season for 2 Wins and 6 Losses, I don't know how to answer that sorry. I'm sure someone else would be willing to though...
 
Oh, I should re-word taht.

I mean, other players seem to easily win anywhere from 2 to 6 tournaments.
 
I disagree with your comments about luck. Obviously, in every game there is luck, but you shouldnt have to depend on luck to win. Think of the luck part more as chance, as the better you are able to make and play with a deck the less you have to rely on luck.
 
@Shadow: What I learned, from my experiences so far, is that luck is more of a hamper than something that helps. How do you win? Practice. But I think the real thing is-take luck out of the equation as much as you can. Build a deck that you wont have to rely on top decks and claydols so heavily, where you build it so you get those calls, or get those roseannes, ya no? And build it so you have other cards to search out those vital cards to help set up and so on. Basically, build a good deck, and then practice with it. Not for a single league time. Build this deck of yours weeks, even MONTHS before the tourney, and don't play anything but that. The first few times, if you don't like it, scrap it. But if you do like it...play more with it! Challenge other people, and make sure you are playing various decks. Then, after EVERY match, think about what you had trouble with in that match alone. So...yeah. Practice makes perfect. Lol.
 
@to everyone.
Im not say I rely on luck to win, Im saying, Luck is what stops me from winning.

Practice I know.

But Practice does not affect the odds of getting a decent oppening hand.


You could be the best player in the WORLD, and if your opponening hand consists on 4 energy, a few recovery cards, and a single basic pokemon, you arent going to win. UNLESS you can top deck somthing that will save you. But for that, you need luck again.
 
Right. So, build a better deck. Lower the amount of recovery cards to just what you need. Same for energy. And add in basic pokemon that you need, and add as many search trainers that you feel is necessary. That way, you lessen the chances of getting that kinda start. It happens(this one time, opening hand: 3 basic steel energy, 3 basic electric energy, 1 unown G, going first against Kingdra donk. Lol. It wasn't tourney though.), but building better helps avoid it.
 
Win!

.
I applaud your question shadoworganoid!

I, like you, believe there is some "recipe" for winning multiple events.

I tell my son (Junior) "it takes the 4 Ps"

• Play a competitive deck
• Pay attention to your game
• Play without error
• Practice, practice, practice

Most of us in the older 2 divisions don't need to focus on "paying attention to our game"... but I think the other 3 are key.

COMPETITIVE DECK - I guess I believe in the "BDIF" approach. PokeBeachers have listed the current "Tier 1" decks. It doesn't seem to be a bad place to start. When I look at some of the best players in our area, they're playing "Tier 1" decks. (Are you using "competitve decks")

PLAY WITHOUT ERROR - Oh my gosh is this key! Make 1 or 2 mistakes in a game and boof! there goes the game. How do you not make mistakes... practice... and lots of it.

PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE - Sounds like you're doing this already. I tell my son that it is important to "practice with a purpose". So... matching your tourney deck up against other Tier 1 decks is vital.

I too have never won an event. I have top-cutted twice... once with MagKiss (taken out by AMU) and once with Scizor/Shaymin (taken out HARD by Palkia G / Dialga G) My son on the other hand has 3 "Ws" under his belt in the last 12 months. In his divison, "paying attention to your game" is about the most important thing. (And... having enough steam at the end to play competitively in the last few tough games.)

I am anxious to hear what other PokeBeach members think.
 
um ima say skill as the answer. i mean deck choice really doesn't matter if your skilled enough to play a game. i can pick up any deck at almost any point in the game and make it close, it does rely on luck sometimes however. but i still say skill>deckchoice and practice. as you guys have seen from the decks i play, skill is more useful than other stuff =P.

if you want T1 claydol and all that junk, play 4 spiritomb, 2-2 claydol and main attacker. you SHOULD get it most of the time....
 
^^This is true, basically, Spiritomb start almost seals the deal on a T1 Claydol lol. In Gechamp I always got a T2 Machamp(dged a Machop T1), or Gengar, or Claydol. So...lol. Also, to add onto what Hypno68 said, with juniors, it goes like this:

Draw.
Energy.
Attack.

Lol. But for like masters its:
Draw.
Look at hand.
Look at field.
Look at hand(cont.)
Look at field of opponent.
Look at opponents hand.
Look at hand(cont.)
Play card, think about what to do with it, like search for.
Search deck.
Pick 1-2 cards.
Look at both cards.
Put one card back.
Look through deck again.(cont.)
Pick out that same card you put back.
Place card.

THEN:
Evolve.

Lol. Masters think turns and turns ahead. So skill. And practice.

@Elekid: Another thing that is necessary is to have a lot of hope HoPe! Lol.
 
You guys aren't looking at this logically

There will always be a debate on how involved luck really is in this game. The truth is, you make your own luck. Your deck decides what kind of luck you have, and if you put yourself in a situation where you have to rely on topdecking a card or having a good start, you should probably build another deck. If you're that unsure that you have to rely on a silly thing that should not play a major factor in deciding whether or not you win, then you have a problem.

Now, as for the subject at hand, this is such an odd question. It's not only unfair for us to answer this, as we're basically telling you how we win events. But, I'll bite. You're not going to be able to walk into a tournament with a deck you've played for about a week and win. The best players, as soon as the scans for the next set come out, proxy the cards and playtest them. That way they're as prepared as they can possibly be. In addition to that, really... use the deck you feel the most comfortable using. The better you know the deck, the better you know its weaknesses, and the more you can prepare for an unexpected turn of events in a match.

Another thing you need to make sure to do is converse with other players about your ideas. Chances are, the first list you make isn't the best. Having others' opinions can really help you be more open to changing your deck. You also need to make sure you are still playing a viable deck that does well against decks in your area and still... works, lol.

On top of all that, you just need to be prepared. It takes a long time before you are able to win a tournament for anyone. Those people winning 2 to 6 tournaments? Yeah, they've been playing for a long time, they're playing the deck they like the best and have worked on with others, and they don't rely on luck. They rely on their own skill that they developed by practicing with their deck against other good players.

I know I just reiterated much of what you just said, but there isn't much to it. Luck has literally nothing to do with the game. If you play a deck that's only good if you go second (such as Shuppet), you probably won't win too much because you won't BE able to adapt to the situation where you go first. Any player can blame their loss because of luck, but most of the time, it isn't because of that. You put yourself into a situation where the fate of your game is depended on whether or not you get heads or tails on a coin flip. If your opponent sets up faster than you, that just means their DECK is faster than yours, not because they were lucky enough to get a good start. Everything that happens in this game is based on your ability to make a good deck and play well.

There is, however, a certain level of luck, yes. Your starting hand isn't necessarily luck-based, as there is a mathematical formula (that I do not have at the moment but will edit this post with once I find it) to determine the chances of you getting a particular card in your deck. The luck in this game revolves around who goes first or second and that alone. This should never be a real issue, however, and a good player won't be affected by this too much (depending on your start, that's where bad luck mixes with your ability to build a deck that doesn't get bad starts.) I'm not saying bad starts NEVER happen, but you do have more control over them than you think.

If you are so negatively affected by luck, you should try playing around with your deck a little. Make sure you minimize the possibilities of getting bad starts, because what you see as bad luck is really your opponent's deck working better than yours 99% of the time. Players are winning so much because they've made it so they rely only on their ability to make the right choices and not put themselves in a bad position. I'm not saying I'm the perfect player, and I'm not saying there IS a perfect player, but if you can walk out of a game winning, you're a pretty good one. If you lose anyway, don't blame it on luck.
 
So basically your telling me there is no such thing as a Bad Draw in a good deck?

Also, there is not a mathmatical formula on a deck or pokemon cards. That seems very unlikely.

Besides, if good players have it down to a...."Science" as you make it sound, they they should NEVER lose. Hmm?
 
It's me again!

shadoworganoid... try to keep an open mind. I know from personal experience that galefail knows A LOT about winning.

(galefail -- thank you for sharing some of those insights!)

There is a mathematical formula for the odds that any one card will be in your 7-card opening hand.

Here goes on the theory... let's say that Pokemon changed the rules and everyone started with a 6-crad hand. Now, would you agree that the odds of having any one particular card in your hand would be exactly 10%? If you do good... and we go on. Now... put 2 of those cards in your deck and it's up to 20%. (3 - 30% and 4 - 40%) Having a 40% chance of getting, say.. a Spiritomb... makes a deck very consistent.

Since you get 7 cards, the odds increase a bit, to like 11% , 22%, 33%, and 44%. Add in the fact that you can draw an extra card to start your turn and your chances of getting one, important, card go up even more
 
Oh! That.

Okay, yeah I know that. My bad. lol



So basically, to ensure a good start, I should run 4 Call energy and 4 Spiritomb?
 
shadoworganoid said:
So basically your telling me there is no such thing as a Bad Draw in a good deck?

Also, there is not a mathmatical formula on a deck or pokemon cards. That seems very unlikely.

Besides, if good players have it down to a...."Science" as you make it sound, they they should NEVER lose. Hmm?
Click to expand...

If two good players are playing each other one person has to win lol

Edit: Thanks Hypno68. =)

I never... said there was no such thing as a bad draw. I even said bad draws do happen. The point is as the player who is playing the deck you should know, you should have been able to build the deck to the point where you can prevent bad draws as much as possible. You should also always be in a situation where a bad draw shouldn't be the worst thing in the world, and you shouldn't be relying on topdecking a good card. I mean, these things do happen I guess and you have no control how good of a start your opponent has, so if you find yourself in this situation, you should hopefully have an answer to it. If not, you should be ready to adapt to the situation. I mean, I'm not saying every single time things are going to work out, but you should be able to work with what your deck has given you. If you are given a start that isn't one basic 6 energy or something like that, you can hopefully work with it.
 
I'm sorry but I must disagree with some of you.

While yes I do agree with your math and that skill does play a large part of this game you are all forgeting about THE most important thing, ability to perform well under pressure.

This game is very stressful and challenges your mind's strategic capabilities more than you think. This is not poker everyone has a whole different set of cards so math can only get you so far. This concept is also true in poker, you can only get so far knowing the probability of a certain card coming up. Poker players spend a lot of the game playing head games with each other trying to get you to think what they want you to think. In pokemon we do not have this the game is much more controlled and removes the external influences of others. So this means litereally you are your own worst enemy.

The first time I ever made top cut was at Reigonals, I was 16th the only x/3 to make it. I was naturally excited, I had an amazing day I was playing like an absolute pro. Then top cut started it was my first round and I was still very jittery and excited. As compared to my opponent calm and collected. The second things turned against me all seemed lost I started making misplays and behaving like a total child. I wound up finishing the game but I don't think my opponent thought much of me afterward. Then at Nats I had a terrible day I played 9 mathches and one 2 of them.

So during the last part of summer I thought about why I did well at Regionals and not at Nats. This is my conclusion: My own attitude. I noticed that I was VERY confident at Regionals, I believed in myself and my deck that I worked very hard on. But once I got to top cut I lost the focus I had built on that entire day and let the game state get the better of me. After relizing this I made a choice on how to act at a tourny. Now I am THE most confident person in the room bordering on cocky as I have been told I am, this gets on peoples nerves which is good. I want them to think that I can't ever get down and that bugs them which starts to eat at thier focus. But once you get to top cut I stop that act, Top cut is a whole new ball of wax. Everyone that is there is a good player and knows how to maintain focus which is why the same people will consistently top cut.

What I want you to take from this is that it is all in your head literaly. You must attain a state of calmness in a game that allows for total mental clarity. This will cut down on Mistakes, but more importantly it will allow you to recover from mistakes that you do make. I make a lot of mistakes in some games, and when I do I think to myself "Idiot! why on earth did you do that!?" Then I stop and take 3 seconds to regain that mental clarity. Then I find ways to play around that mistake or fix it and 9 times out of 10 you can do that.
 
Of course luck is a part of the game (and pretty big at that), but as long as you build a deck that's the most consistent and play it well, luck shouldn't be an issue.

dmaster out.
 
Stop thinking about luck, it doesn't matter, it is a subjective and not tangible; it is more of an idea than anything else.

I have yet to win, but I have top cut. Having only been playing since RR was released I would say I've caught on fast. One of the biggest things you can do to win is to not misplay. I battled a Glistomb deck at a recent CC. On my second or third turn I put a BTS back into my deck when I played Bebe's Search. That BTS would have knocked out his Moonlight Stadium and he would not have been able to retreat his Spiritomb. Two turns would have been all I needed to snipe his bench and ruin his set up, I would have won the game but I thought, "meh, I don't need it". The other HUGE factor is that you need to play a deck that you are comfortable with, that is also consistent, if you can't get set up by T2 or T3 at the latest it needs to be fixed. I ran MightyTank for the first six months I played, I didn't have Uxie, Claydol, Roseannes, Night Maintenance, or any of the major staples and with experience I learned how to effectively win against Flygon, Gengar, Gyrados, and other Meta's. If I didn't have the strength to beat them I could beat them with speed being able to hit for 90 T1 if I went second and I figured all of this out with experience. Don't always go with what everyone else does. I have made some great decks that are very competitive and not a single one of them has EVER run Claydol. Be confident in yourself, don't make your deck to complicated, focus on the game, and play smart. Be patient and you will win.
 
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