What does it take to win a BR or a City event?

Actually, here's a question Ive been wondering. And this applys all around.

When I go up against another deck, how do I choose what to focus on?

Suppose Im playing BlazeRay.
And lets say, the opponent is using FGD (flygon gardevoir)

What is my best option? Use Luxray and drag up weaker pokemon? Or should I wittle away at the stronger pokemon?

For other decks, I have the option to snipe, what do I choose to snipe? Weaker pokemon trying to set up, or weaken a strong pokemon that is already set up?

Whats the best way to decide these senarios?


I mean, If I focus on a stronger pokemon, I run the risk of them healing and then my whole attack was pointless.

But If I choose their weaker pokemon, Im still being killed by that strong one....
 
shadoworganoid said:
Actually, here's a question Ive been wondering. And this applys all around.

When I go up against another deck, how do I choose what to focus on?

Suppose Im playing BlazeRay.
And lets say, the opponent is using FGD (flygon gardevoir)

What is my best option? Use Luxray and drag up weaker pokemon? Or should I wittle away at the stronger pokemon?

For other decks, I have the option to snipe, what do I choose to snipe? Weaker pokemon trying to set up, or weaken a strong pokemon that is already set up?

Whats the best way to decide these senarios?

I have run into this situation many times. I usually go for what will get me the prize lead. If they have a Flygon out and a Crobat G benched and I have a Gengar active that can take out the Benched Crobat I'll do it. Chances are I will survive another turn and I can weigh my options, retreating, hitting another benched, or going for their main attacker. I had a couple games where I may have only attacked their main a couple times. I spent the whole game taking out Pixies, Dusknoirs, and Gardevoirs on the bench.

I mean, If I focus on a stronger pokemon, I run the risk of them healing and then my whole attack was pointless.

But If I choose their weaker pokemon, Im still being killed by that strong one...
Click to expand...

shadoworganoid said:
Actually, here's a question Ive been wondering. And this applys all around.

When I go up against another deck, how do I choose what to focus on?

Suppose Im playing BlazeRay.
And lets say, the opponent is using FGD (flygon gardevoir)

What is my best option? Use Luxray and drag up weaker pokemon? Or should I wittle away at the stronger pokemon?

For other decks, I have the option to snipe, what do I choose to snipe? Weaker pokemon trying to set up, or weaken a strong pokemon that is already set up?

Whats the best way to decide these senarios?

I mean, If I focus on a stronger pokemon, I run the risk of them healing and then my whole attack was pointless.

But If I choose their weaker pokemon, Im still being killed by that strong one...
Click to expand...

I have run into this situation many times. I usually go for what will get me the prize lead. If they have a Flygon out and a Crobat G benched and I have a Gengar active that can take out the Benched Crobat I'll do it. Chances are I will survive another turn and I can weigh my options, retreating, hitting another benched, or going for their main attacker. I had a couple games where I may have only attacked their main a couple times. I spent the whole game taking out Pixies, Dusknoirs, and Gardevoirs on the bench.
 
from years of exp (plus I still play tournys with peeps some leaguer's, most are not from the league) it's more understanding your deck style. now what i mean by that is not what element to play or even what cards you want to put into your deck it's more do I want to play using a technical deck or a chunky deck (2 ends of the spectrum I know but it's a start) I see alot of player's in my small time tourny's that usually use deck's that friends or family have made for them and watch them fail because it's not there style of play. sometimes you've just gotta figure it out yourself what deck style you want to use. after I figured that out I stopped losing by at least 50%, I went from 1-4 to 3-2 or even 4-1 (that got me into regional's a few times, good time's good time's). cya
 
shadoworganoid said:
Im trying to make this post and leave OUT any emotions. Im trying to approach this in an educated manner. I would really appreciate some constructive feed back.

The grand question here is "what does it take to win a big tourny?"

I have never won a Battle Road event, a City event or even a League tourny. I've played for...2 years now I think.

I know the first thing I have to do, is pick a good deck that im comfortable with.

Then I have to practice and practice.
Ok... Ive been going to league almost every single week.


Now here's the thing; Luck.

Luck plays a HUGE part into this doesnt it?
-What your starting hand is.
-What you top draw.
-Coin flips.
-ECT.

All too often I watch the other play get a T1 Claydol followed by a T1 (main attacker).
Meanwhile im not even set up by T5. (ex)


Luck SHOULD be what does this to me right?
Its common sense that NO deck is "perfect".
There will always be a certain level of luck in each game.


I guess what Im trying to figure out is; If luck negatively affects me so much, then How is it that many other players go and win 4 or 5 CC each season?

These other players make their moves as though "practice" affects the luck of the draw.


What am I doing wrong that is preventing me from winning?
Click to expand...

i know what you mean but i won't give you the answer but think of this story

"there once was a man who won a lottery everytime after everytime he would bet more money and more. viewing the losers as losers but one day he chose to bet all his money and lost"

i have an experience in my division+area it is my last year of seniors and i have pokemon since the very beggining. i love creating things and decks is one of them. when i go around and see people with the same deck i think okay interesting but then i stummbled upon a couple new seniors (there first year this year) who at every tournament have one i see what they use and find out the decks aren't there creations and man when i found out they where just "in it to win it" that made me wanna puke. when a sickly combination of

a COPY PASTE CHAMPION DECK + Ultra Pride + Pre-Judging= me wanting to puke all over the floor

in conclusion stuff like this happens my friend but what want you to do is know what is fun and right and what is dull and wrong i have these mottos for my signature for a reason. maybe one day things will change in the pokemon community. one day.

-SPIRE_FAN
 
WailmerMan said:
If the game is luck based why did Jason win worlds twice? Why does Takuto consistantly make the worlds top 4? The game's luck factor is small. My tips:
Click to expand...

Use an earlier example. Worlds Champion 09. He won PURELY on luck on the opponent's (Gyarados) SSU flips.

Nationals Champion 09. Won PURELY on luck facing 3 D/P/L in a row and winning closely against them.

Luck is astronomically huge in big events. Go down the list and luck doesn't matter as much especially in a varied metagame.

dmaster out.
 
See, the main things you're probably doing wrong are:
1. Practice in the wrong way doesn't help. If you're just playing games against bad decks then you're not learning how to tech the bad matchups, you're not learning backup strategies for matchups and you're in essence just winging it. I suggest trying to test against metagame decks instead of random practice.
2. Deck consistency. You're saying that luck is too much of a factor in the game. Most likely, however, luck is too much of a factor in your deck. I can build a deck to consistently get a T2 Claydol and that's how decks are supposed to run. Bad starts and bad draws are more than possible but it should not be a large factor in a good deck.

For example, last season I tried to run a poorly and overly teched Dusknoir deck that didn't apply for matchups. I finished 3-2 at both the Cities I went to. I applied for this at States, tested way more, looked at matchups, etc and finished 2nd. Even though I used Machamp, I focused on a consistent deck and I made it as fast as I could. The flips went enough in my favor for me to pull through.

What you need to do is look at the facts. The fact is that the same players consistently place well at tournaments. Therefore, luck is certainly not the deciding factor in this game.
 
Like Celebi said, consistency is EVERYTHING. If it doesn't get set up consistently, then it's probably not a solid choice. When I won my city, my deck set up every game fast. The building is everything- put in cards to improve setup. And also, know your deck. If you don't know your deck, you can't do anything amazing. Practice with it like crazy.
 
^
Okay, I'm no genius and I'm probably one of the "not so good" players in my area but here's how you win-
Practice-This is a key, as I've learned recently you can't just pickup a deck and do well(worked well for me until I played D-Chomp)
Avoid Mistakes-Really a mistake just kills you and then you'll probably lose,take from the same perspective as sports they ALWAYS talk about making less mistakes then your opponetts.
Make luck play little factor-This is what I will call the"Jay Hornung"approach(I got this from the worlds booklet okay?). Basically he said he wanted luck to play no part in Worlds, then he got lucky when he needed. You need to not rely on luck and not think about it all. If your opponett gets a great Topdeck and you continue to get bad ones just fight your way through it and eventually something will go your way. Again sports correlation-You keep getting stopped on 3rd and short, just keep trying and eventually something will break, stick to your gameplan.

Well that's how I'd approach it.
 
Dude, i won a BR with an SW Tyranitar (x1) DP Empoleon (2 normal, 1 level x) DP lucario (same as empo)and GE darkrai deck. That was my first tourney and only tourney win.I guess i got lucky. In the finals i played a luxray deck. I say it's luck or skill or both.
 
^
What division were you in?
That could explain a lot....
So maybe you got lucky and such but to consistently win you need to follow a formula.
 
The biggest factor of luck in this game is your matchups imo.

Last year, I was in seniors. If you played last year, you would know that gengar was 80% of what was played in seniors at nationals. The only reason I lost in top 16 was I was matched up with one of the only dialga decks. I beat every one of the gengar decks in swiss. I knew if I had been lucky enough to be paired up with gengar, I would have probably done better.

You can not change this luck aspect.

BUT, I can give you the trick to doing good in swiss. Play the most popular deck. Play the stereotypical version of the deck. THEN, change it so you have an advantage in the mirror match up. For example, last year with gengar, I only ran 1-0-1 nidoqueen opposed to everyone else's 2-1-2. This gave me more room for speed and poke turns. More poketurn gave me more cheap prizes than my opponents could pull off. I was also setting up faster.
 
#1weavile said:
Deck choice is not EVERYTHING. Did you listen to what I just said? Elekid me and other rogue players can top cut and do well in tourneys with ROGUE DECKS. Elekid won more than me which supports my point even more :p

Look at my signature for 07-08 records. Plus, that was my very first year also.
Click to expand...

i'm not saying picking a popular deck, i'm saying make a good metagame call
 
I´m not sure how much luck affects what you draw. I mean, there´s always a higher chance of getting a type of card (bad/good) than the other type (bad/good). It´s a bit complicated, but you might want to read Jason´s (old) article about Odd of opening with a specific basic Pokémon on your opening hand (though the math can be applied to the cards you draw per turn, as long as you know what cards are in your deck).
 
GHJamesGH said:
The biggest factor of luck in this game is your matchups imo.

Last year, I was in seniors. If you played last year, you would know that gengar was 80% of what was played in seniors at nationals. The only reason I lost in top 16 was I was matched up with one of the only dialga decks. I beat every one of the gengar decks in swiss. I knew if I had been lucky enough to be paired up with gengar, I would have probably done better.

You can not change this luck aspect.

BUT, I can give you the trick to doing good in swiss. Play the most popular deck. Play the stereotypical version of the deck. THEN, change it so you have an advantage in the mirror match up. For example, last year with gengar, I only ran 1-0-1 nidoqueen opposed to everyone else's 2-1-2. This gave me more room for speed and poke turns. More poketurn gave me more cheap prizes than my opponents could pull off. I was also setting up faster.
Click to expand...
o_O I played you in the 5th or 6th round with my Speedrill and sat next to your in Top 16. I had no idea you were on here. But I don't know if 80% of the people were playing Gengar. It was probably more like 40 or so.
 
Well, to stand a good chance at winning, first figure out what deck to play. A good way to do that is to write out all the decks you expect to see in your division, then write out a list for what beats each deck. Find a deck that appears most in those lists, then build the deck carefully. Playtest it against several decks (maybe 2-3 times each), then change it up and playtest some more. Then, you're ready. Also remember to shuffle alot. No one agrees with me on that, but I think it helps me get better starts.
 
Just know your deck and the deck your playing against. Be confident. Nothing else needs to be said.
 
shatteranatora said:
Well, to stand a good chance at winning, first figure out what deck to play. A good way to do that is to write out all the decks you expect to see in your division, then write out a list for what beats each deck. Find a deck that appears most in those lists, then build the deck carefully. Playtest it against several decks (maybe 2-3 times each), then change it up and playtest some more. Then, you're ready. Also remember to shuffle alot. No one agrees with me on that, but I think it helps me get better starts.
Click to expand...
I completely agree on that actually. When I do that I still seem to get clumped cards and stuff but it's nowhere near as bad as when I don't shuffle much at all. I usually do a 6-pile shuffle then a 3-pile then some bridges and stuff.
 
Hypno68 said:
It's me again!

shadoworganoid... try to keep an open mind. I know from personal experience that galefail knows A LOT about winning.

(galefail -- thank you for sharing some of those insights!)

There is a mathematical formula for the odds that any one card will be in your 7-card opening hand.

Here goes on the theory... let's say that Pokemon changed the rules and everyone started with a 6-crad hand. Now, would you agree that the odds of having any one particular card in your hand would be exactly 10%? If you do good... and we go on. Now... put 2 of those cards in your deck and it's up to 20%. (3 - 30% and 4 - 40%) Having a 40% chance of getting, say.. a Spiritomb... makes a deck very consistent.

Since you get 7 cards, the odds increase a bit, to like 11% , 22%, 33%, and 44%. Add in the fact that you can draw an extra card to start your turn and your chances of getting one, important, card go up even more
Click to expand...

Exactly, now increace the chances.
If you run 4 Spiritomb, 4 Call Energy, 4 Bebe's, 2 Luxury Balls, and some Great Balls maybe, there is at least a 154% Chance you will get at least one of those. Therefor, you and ensured a good start.
But then you need to worry about not overdoing it. In say Shuppet-Donk, you're drawing at least 20 cards per turn usually, you NEED to get an Expert belt, but you don't want anymore then 1. If I we're to run 4 of them in my deck to enure I get one, I'd end up with all 4 most of the time, witch would screwup my Uxies, therefor causing me to draw less, so I get less PokePowers and Poke Turns
 
Statistics Rock!

(Is this too much information? Uh huh... probably)

I got out my old Statistics books and found the equation to determine the odds of having a particular card in your 7-card opening hand

It's interesting... the math involved has you calculate the percent chance of the card(s) not being in your hand, then subtracting from 100.

So, the exact numbers are -

1 Copy of the Card - 11.7%
2 Copies of the Card - 21.1%
3 Copies of the Card - 31.5%
4 Copies of the Card - 39.9%

So... for just "ballparking it", figure that each additional copy of a card gives you an additional 10% chance of it being in your hand at the start of the game.
 
Yeah, well, what with consistency and all, sometimes it just won't work. I tested my LuxApe deck about 50 times before playing it, and from the 6 tournament matches I played with it, I lost 4 because it took 5+ turns to draw into a Supporter (of which I played 10, go figure) or other useful cards.
So basically, you should always have a backup plan in case these things happen. A lot of top tier players throw in a single Chatot to help in these cases.
Anyway, thing is, sometimes even with the best deck you still can't win. And a lot depends on your matchups. So in a way, yes, luck is involved.
Concluding, you should playtest a lot, but results from the past won't guarantee results in the present.( That's a dutch expression, lol. )
 
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