What is the new way to get energies out, after Rosen is gone?

Energy Search is the stupidest waste of time I've ever seen. Unless you run a bunch of different types of energy, don't run it. Replace it WITH AN ENERGY. You're just as likely to draw that energy as your are to get the energy search, so you're really wasting 2 spots in your deck to accomplish what 1 could do.
 
What I said was that ES would be a better option than IQ for the sole reason that it doesn't waste a supporter drop. I would NEVER endorse ES which is why I made the comparison. Zitong, your math is way off. I'm not gonna even bother to explain it to you, but you want to use the nPr concept. You probably wouldn't understand. Also, your argument is that IQ is good because it doesn't get Trainer locked? Know what else it does? It supporter locks you. Your supporter drop in a turn is very important. Why don't you just max out on PONT instead so that you can get good cards and perhaps an energy? Once again, I will reiterate, if you play DCE and they are a near necessity, 2 EE works wonders.

Also, arguments for Another energy > ES don't work. ES thins your deck a card which is incredibly helpful. Playing another energy over ES means having one more 1-per-turn card. You can have only so many of those. :) Plus, ES can fail when getting ready for Uxie drop. Normal energies... cannot do that. Once again, not endorsing ES play, but just want to disprove as many arguments as I can. :)
 
Thinning the deck is good for you? I don't know where you play, but that's BAD as far as I can see. You run 13 energy in most decks, meaning wasting a space pointlessly is ridiculous. You wanna thin the deck? Unown R. It also gives you draw power. Your theory that ES is more useful in a spot than an energy is RIDICULOUS.
 
Zero will be right if somebody is playing an multi type deck. Like for exemple, instead of drawing an Energy that has chance to not be used, drawing an ES means drawing an Energy that you want. Maybe you have limited energies in your deck, you can take energies from your discard pile. Cyrius Conspiracy can be useful just to take another Energy and a Fisherman.

Zero, Can you just summary all your arguments, please? Your are arguring at everybody, and it is not clear.
 
I know. I said that ES would only be good in a many-typed deck. I'm saying that in most decks, one-typed decks, it wouldn't.
 
@ Zero, If you wanted to thin a deck, surely you want an unown R rather than an energy search? If your in a trainer lock thats just a wasted card and ammunition for gengar.
 
My argument: IQ is a terrible card. Cyrus is also very bad when not in SP. EVEN ES (not defending ES as a good card... it isn't) is better than both of these situations.

Also, Rikko, thinning the deck IS SMART. It increases chances of drawing cards you need. Your argument that adding an extra energy over ES (still a bad card) is what is absurd. I have seen scattered times when ES has been decently playable. You can pop it for a free energy, drop it to get an extra uxie draw, and overall just waste it. Replacing it with an energy would be cumbersome because it must stay in your hand. Take the situation where you have an energy, an ES, and an uxie in your hand. You get to draw 7. If the ES is another energy, you draw six. 7>6 by my count. Once again, not supporting ES... just saying that your argument is invalid. :)

The ONLY reason somebody should ever play Fisherman is if they can drop the energies all at once (... Gatr? I GUESS ninetails... but that's questionable). You should NEVER EVER play Cyrus if you aren't playing a good supply of SP tools. It is just stupid. Your supporter drop every turn is the most valuable thing you can get. Don't waste it on energy search.
 
I have calculate the Percentage to get an energy with IQ in a 14 energy deck with nCr and it gives me 29.3%. Whether if I am correct or Zero, both shows that it has a low propability to get an energy card in 8.
I am not with the thinning the deck. More you have different cards in your deck, more you get things to do. My opinion.

I did 14C1 x 46C7 It should be correct.
-----------
60C8
I am very advanced level even if I am senior. I am no nerd.

It is (14C1 x 46C7)/60C8
 
For a good energy getter, I think they need to reprint Mr. Stone's Project. It gets two energies for deck for discard pile. But currently Cyrus's is the best way.
 
Thanks for proving my point zitong. Despite your math being off, you just proved to yourself that IQ has a low success rate. You calculated the chance of IQ getting 1 card (you were still off though). Now, my theory is that ES is better than IQ because it doesn't waste a supporter. By your (off) math, it will usually be better to drop ES, get a certain energy, and get a supporter drop in the same turn.

Also, WHY would you put cyrus into a nonSP deck? Unless you are playing Poketurn for Luxray/Crobat, you should never put a cyrus into a nonSP deck. Once again, there are WAY BETTER supporter drops that can help you. It searches for a supporter, yes, but what if it WAS that supporter? Searching for that one energy that you need just isn't enough. Then again, I'm talking to the guy who thinks having 8 1-1 lines in a deck is a good idea...

Also Zitong, how can you NOT think that thinning the deck is a good idea? Would you rather keep your deck full of stuff? That is the basis by which most decks right now work (save for a few). Ever notice how fast decks have few cards in them? That is because they thin themselves just to get a few better draws.
 
Zero, come to whatever conclusion you want. I've decided that it's just pointless to argue with you because you just pull random crap out of nowhere, try to sound like you know what you're talking about, and will disagree with whatever I say. Your opinion for energy searching and the rest of the population's is different, and should I ever want to start a conversation or an argument with you, I'll say, "27 birds per tree, the lights are on AND off, and hedgehogs eat people in their sleep." I think it's pretty obvious somebody made a mistake somewhere down the line, because you were somehow made a moderator.

(Just try and ban me for that one. I didn't break any rules. ;))
 
Wow, Rikko. You bash someone who clearly knows what they are talking about and has results to show it. I don't see how bashing him makes you any better. He provided logical arguments in which ES is better. The person wanted ways to get energy. ES does that and thins the deck. Unown R only thins the deck and doesn't guarantee the energy. He is making an argument, and supposed to disagree with you. I don't understand what's wrong with his logic :(
 
My deck is good and I work hard on it. You just didn t tried it. Even if you do, you will not know how to use it. It is a personnal deck. IQ can be better if somebody is playing a lot of Special Energies. Maybe you will say to combine it with EE. But the propabilities to get those two cards are lower than using an IQ. Plus, it is hard to search for those cards. You were talking about thinning the deck, are you going to put 4 ES and 4 EE just to bring out some energies. I would prefer 4 IQ and 4 Unown R (to thin the deck as you said).

For my deck, I will put maybe one or two IQ because I don t use a lot of Supporters in the middle of the game. My own deck.

Rikko145, Zero s argument are good for certain decks. Maybe you deck is different, as mine. He is talking in general.
 
It's not just the logic. The logic is, eh, okay. It was the cockiness and arrogance, and these comments. All direct quotes:

"Then again, I'm talking to the guy who thinks having 8 1-1 lines in a deck is a good idea..."
"Once again, not supporting ES... just saying that your argument is invalid."
"You should NEVER EVER play Cyrus if you aren't playing a good supply of SP tools. It is just stupid."
"Zitong, your math is way off. I'm not gonna even bother to explain it to you, but you want to use the nPr concept. You probably wouldn't understand."
"Once again, not endorsing ES play, but just want to disprove as many arguments as I can. "

These were all off of a single page. I'm sure I could find more if I looked. (Wouldn't be hard!) As you can see, he doesn't even think that the card he is backing up is good. He just wants to argue.
 
The major flaw with Energy Search and Cyrus are that they only grab basic energies. IQ grabs special energies. Like I said, if you run enough special energies, IQ is just a fine card. Zero, your advice is getting sloppier and sloppier.
 
why not argue? it creates discussion and it provides more idea for everyone. of course, the simple thing to do is add more energies or add trainers. why waste a supporter on energy when you can probably draw an energy from uxie or get a fresh hand from a supporter
 
@Chanman - I understand the whole idea of not wasting a supporter for energy I.E. IQ or Cyrus. However, the OP question was, what is the best way to get an energy card out of the deck.

That being said, the three choices are IQ, Cyrus and Energy Search, other then an attack from another pokemon.

Those are the choices, that's it. You can talk all you want about theories and numbers and opinions. The bottom line is those are the three best choices.

I still disagree with Zero and his opinion on Cyrus. I think it gets you a supporter and the energy you need. Not saying you need 4 but one might not hurt. I also really like IQ for the ability to get multiple energies and special energies. I like energy search the least, since it is one energy and can get trainer locked.

I should be able to voice my opinion without being told I don't know how to play the game and shouldn't be playing anymore especially from a Mod. He has his opinion which I respect and I have mine, which I think should be equally respected.
 
NJPokeDad just gained a lot of respect from me. Not really much to say after that except that I applaud you good sir.

/me claps
 
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