What is Your Position on Abortion?

Haunted Water said:
I would just like to say that there is a drive in both eating and sexual activity. However, the drive to eat is much stronger than the other. Many great men have remained celibate for a very long time, some lasted up until their death. Two of them in the last 150 years (Tesla and Gandhi).
So, no, sexual activity isn't much of an urge.
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Two examples don't account for the other billions of people. Sexual activity IS an urge for most; the only difference between it and eating is that you won't exactly die without sex. The primary motives of any species are survival and reproduction, and it is hard to ignore biology.

My high school's sex ed class always, ALWAYS, added the "abstinence is the only safe sex" suffix to every lesson, and it pushed abstinence above everything else. My high school also had several pregnant students, and from the sounds of things, not very many students who were abstinent. The point is, people are going to do it anyway. Telling them to just not do it doesn't work. The only thing that's effective at all is providing (accurate) information about contraceptives, and better yet, the contraceptives themselves.
 
Morally, I think abortion is wrong excluding Stolen and incest.

However, morals don't matter. This is law.

You always have to approach controversial topics with an open mind. Do we as citizens, as law makers, and politicians have the right to take away such a liberty? From a truly objective view point, pro-life can really only site murder as a source of constitutional/law-based opposition. That said, I don't think a solid law-based argument can be made for the concept of abortion as the murder of a human. Is it right? Should we stop it? Doesn't really matter. Laws are laws and unless those laws are changed, decisions must be made accordingly.

In addition, you have to consider the aftermath of a pro-life decision. One can argue that those who suffer from the consequences deserve them, but public interest is typically held first. If abortion becomes illegal, imagine the societal consequences. Abortions will head to the black market. People will compromise, allowing less-than-qualified individuals to perform the operations; people will get hurt this way. Desperate women may try to abort themselves using insecure or self-abusive behaviors. Depression will rise; pregnancy-related suicides will sky rocket. Crime rates will escalade. Bodily operations involving women is /NOT/ something that any of us want to go on the black market. It is a recipe for disaster.

tl;dr

Is abortion wrong? Who cares. I don't believe that our government has the right to overturn such a liberty given our current laws. In addition, the consequences of stopping abortion far outweigh the benefit to society. The government isn't here to protect moral integrity. It's supposed to do what's best for public interest. Even though this may seem morally wrong to some, including myself, it is a reality of the world we live in.
 
Question : For those whom are in favor of the mother retaining rights because it is her body, do you also believe the father should have the same rights as the mother?

If the mother wants it, but the father doesnt, what should be done? If the father wants it, but the mother does not, again what should be done?
 
I don't think the father has any rights in terms of decision. It's the woman's body. You would hope that the two of then would talk it over, though.
 
That's one of those questions that doesn't have a satisfying answer imo. In a perfect world, that dispute would always come down to a civil agreement between the father and the mother on what to do.
Of course, this isn't a perfect world, so... They have equally worthy opinions, but the mother gets the final FINAL say because she's the one carrying it and having to go through nine months of pregnancy + the process of childbirth.
So if the father wants it but the mother doesn't, then it's kind of tough beans for the father, unfortunately.
If the mother wants it but the father doesn't, then he shouldn't be expected to help care for it/pay child support/etc. Society would have his head for it but I believe it's only fair.

All of this is, of course, under the supposition that it's completely accidental on the part of both parents. If one of them surreptitiously makes that pregnancy happen, then it's different d:
 
Dustin DeVine said:
Is it the man's vagina, uterus, etc.? I think not.
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[private] [[[Keeping the below statement documented here because of the warning given for it]]]

That does not add anything to the question I asked. Your line of thinking is what causes problems with discussions in the world. [/private]

So just because the man is not carrying, he has to be held responsible and have no rights whatsoever while the woman can literally do what she pleases?
 
r3skyline said:
Dustin DeVine said:
Is it the man's vagina, uterus, etc.? I think not.
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That does not add anything to the question I asked.
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As a matter of fact, yes, it completely answers your rather vague question. Also, I do not appreciate your second claim, whatsoever. You asked a question, and I answered you with a question. Now, answer my question. Is the man the one with the uterus?


So just because the man is not carrying, he has to be held responsible and have no rights whatsoever while the woman can literally do what she pleases?
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If you would care to read anything before espousing a bunch of scheiße, you would know that the male has no say BECAUSE he has no uterus. Until you grow one, experience contractions, and give birth to a child, you will have absolutely no say, in legal terms. It may be your sperm, but ultimately, the decision relies upon the woman. This is not MY thinking, by the way, it is just how it works. Is this the way it should work? Who knows? It is all about how each of us perceive the situation.

I recommend you apply cold water to the burned area.
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What was already established is that the mother is obviously the one whom carries. Who cares if the father has no biological way to birth a child.

You stated "Is it the man's vagina, uterus, etc.? I think not." You were very clear about where you stood. Your claim suggests that just because she is a woman, she has all the rights to do whatever she pleases. This should not be and should never be, but in the twisted society we live in, that's how it works.
 
Keep it mature guys. Being respectful and proper is essential, especially in these kinds of threads.
 
Expanding on what DD said, the legal community has already set precedents that men don't have many rights in these kinds of cases because, "it's the woman that must bear the brunt of the pregnancy." So whether we personally think that that's unfair or not doesn't really matter in the end.
 
How would that be unfair? I'm agreeing with Dustin; the woman is having to deal with the baby, she should have pretty much all say in this. It's like the argument of the deadbeat. The man can leave at anytime, but the woman has to deal with it.
 
Ideally, the biological father should at least be able to voice his preference on whether or not the mother should have an abortion. Ultimately, it is the woman's uterus, so she has the final say on whether to carry through with an abortion, like it or not. The legal system carries the same viewpoint as well in legal disputes, as Elite Stride pointed out; that is part of the reason why a mother is the parent most likely to keep his/her child(ren) in a child custody case.

In the end, it's a moot point whether or not any of us like this fact. What can a man do to stop a woman from getting an abortion or not getting one? Unless, in the former case, the father controls the monetary assets necessary to do so, but I am going off on a tangent.
 
Exactly, Elite Stride.

There is no such thing as an emotional appeal, when the law clearly states yada yada yada. "Should be" is irrelevant. The woman has a uterus and carries the baby; the male does not. Legally, it is fully at the discretion of the female. Perhaps the male "should" have a say, but that's not how it works, again.

Oh, and CCloud, the male has every right to voice his opinion, but legally, he has no right to infringe upon the woman's decision, as again, and I stress, she is carrying the fetus. He may speak, but he cannot do anything -- legally, that is.
 
My position on abortion?

Well, I honestly think it should be up to the mother. I mean, ya, the father helped make the baby, but is he the one who has to carry the baby for about 9 months, or actually give birth to it? I don't think so, so the woman should have the final say.

My two cents.
 
r3skyline said:
^because democrats have done a fine job so far. pfft
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Maybe if the right-wing bigots would stay out of the way, they actually would get stuff done.
Just sayin'.

I'm not going to say this anymore, so I'll say it now.
Lawmakers shouldn't even be debating this. It is a freedom.
 
This isn't the thread to have a political debate, guys/gals. Please make another thread for it if you all would like to continue- thanks!

That is just what I will do.

-DD
 
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