Will Raquaza replace Terrakion in ZekEels?

Rayquaza or Terrakion?

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Emopanda133

Aspiring Trainer
Member
So, now that it is garunteed that Rayquaza (regular) is going to be in the next set, do you think it will replace Terrakion as the Meta counter?

Here are the scans:

http://pokebeach.com/scans/dragons-exalted/128-rayquaza.jpg
http://pokebeach.com/scans/noble-victories/73-terrakion.jpg
 
Emopanda133 said:
I'm sorry, but I can't believe you of all people asked that...What do you think Terrakion is?
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Um, read the post more carefully. He didn't say what. He said why. Zekeels IS the meta. It has the sheer power to contend with just about any deck without a "meta counter" like Terrakion; it doesn't need it. That's what he's saying.
 
What Dark Void said.

Also, Rayquazas are hard to stream. It's like trying to swarm Mewtwo in a Darkrai deck; you need a non-native Energy every turn. But it's even harder because Energy Switch and Shaymin won't help you and you actually do need acceleration on top of the non-native Energy. Terrakion was only good in Eelz because it could take a hit from the cards it was countering. So even if Eelz did need a meta counter, Rayquaza wouldn't work very well.

You really can't assume that because the deck used a meta counter in HS-on, it needs one in BW-on. The formats are not comparable even though they have a lot of the same cards.
 
I wouldn't play more than 1 Rayquaza in my Eels, and I wouldn't play and Fire Energies. I would just use if for the first attack for early rushing against Garchomp/Altaria. Have you guys tested Eels against Garchomp/Altaria? It's pretty simple, just Catcher + Thundurus against Swablus early, then late game Raikou EX Altarias.
 
I prefer X-Ball over Disaster Volt, but I definitely agree that it's by far Eelz's best matchup (without Rayquaza).
 
Dark Void said:
Um, read the post more carefully. He didn't say what. He said why. Zekeels IS the meta. It has the sheer power to contend with just about any deck without a "meta counter" like Terrakion; it doesn't need it. That's what he's saying.
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So every list that has Terrakion NV doesn't need it to counter Darkrai and the mirror?

I think that Rayquaza is a great card for Eels, it can be easily dropped to hit Garchomps, Altaria's and Hydregion's, which will most likely be played a lot, Eviolite or Large Cloak him, and you can 2HKO anything, except Wailord (crafty whale pokemon, him and his high HP). He's a great tech.
 
Zekrom-EX can do all that too, except better and without messing with your Energy line.
 
And it also gives up two prizes to Terrakion, unlike Rayquaza. It's also harder to set up, since I can use energy search for my Fire energy.
 
You just contradicted yourself. First, you claimed that Rayquaza was a better meta counter than Terrakion. Now, you're claiming that Terrakion will still be popular enough to make Zekrom-EX unplayable. Why would people play Terrakion if it's no longer a good meta counter? Terrakion is no longer a large threat. Are the decks you're trying to beat with Rayquaza going to run it? Garchomp sure isn't unless they're insane, and Hydregion usually favors Blend attackers over Prism attackers; I haven't seen any Hydregion using Terrakion.

Also, Zekrom-EX can run solely on Lightning Energy. How is it harder to set Zekrom-EX up?
 
Garchomp could play one Terrakion if they were already playing Switch for Emolga.

Still, Zekrom EX gains a lot of power in BW-On. Right now I have 4 Switch and 2 Skyarrow so the heavy retreat isn't a problem. OHKOing Hydreigon is too good to pass up, and being able to do it without messing with your energy lines (and not needing a ~80 dollar card) is great.
 
Cinema said:
Garchomp could play one Terrakion if they were already playing Switch for Emolga.
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No it can't. Terrakion pretty much screams "Catcher me, Catcher me!!!". Plus, you can't even get it going it one turn. The big part for Terrakion is to be able to get a surprise Revenge.

As for Rayquaza in ZekEels, I think it's good enough to play a one of. If you go first and get it against Dragons you're already one prize ahead before they even get a turn. IDK why you wouldn't play at least one.
 
Celebi23 said:
You just contradicted yourself. First, you claimed that Rayquaza was a better meta counter than Terrakion. Now, you're claiming that Terrakion will still be popular enough to make Zekrom-EX unplayable. Why would people play Terrakion if it's no longer a good meta counter? Terrakion is no longer a large threat. Are the decks you're trying to beat with Rayquaza going to run it? Garchomp sure isn't unless they're insane, and Hydregion usually favors Blend attackers over Prism attackers; I haven't seen any Hydregion using Terrakion.

Also, Zekrom-EX can run solely on Lightning Energy. How is it harder to set Zekrom-EX up?
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A: I meant that as a Terrakion vs. Zekrom EX/Rayquaza match-up. You said Zekrom EX can do everything Rayquaza can, and is more consistant, well, if you run against a deck, doesn't have to be ZekEels, that has Terrakion, I ould rather have Rayquaza than Zekrom EX, that it what I was saying.

B: You need two Lightning and two Colorless to built up in one turn, (it's first attack can't 2HKO the EX's and is way too flippy) and if you use solely Lightning, like you said, that's three Dynamotor's and attach for turn, where as Rayquaza needs one fire, one lightning, and one colorless. If I don't have the Fire energy in hand, then I have Energy Search, get the Fire energy, attach for turn, and double Dynamotor. Having a Fire energy or and Energy Search with two Eels is alot easier than setting up three Eels and having an energy in hand.
 
Emopanda133 said:
A: I meant that as a Terrakion vs. Zekrom EX/Rayquaza match-up. You said Zekrom EX can do everything Rayquaza can, and is more consistant, well, if you run against a deck, doesn't have to be ZekEels, that has Terrakion, I ould rather have Rayquaza than Zekrom EX, that it what I was saying.
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Why? What's Rayquaza going to do for you in that matchup? 40 damage? 90 damage? Mewtwo-EX is better because it will OHKO Terrakions. They both maintain an overall even Prize trade, but Mewtwo makes it go faster, putting a lot of pressure on their resources.

Both Rayquaza and Zekrom-EX are effectively useless in the matchup. But at least Zekrom-EX can surprise KO a Terrakion to remove all their Energy from play.
B: You need two Lightning and two Colorless to built up in one turn, (it's first attack can't 2HKO the EX's and is way too flippy) and if you use solely Lightning, like you said, that's three Dynamotor's and attach for turn, where as Rayquaza needs one fire, one lightning, and one colorless. If I don't have the Fire energy in hand, then I have Energy Search, get the Fire energy, attach for turn, and double Dynamotor. Having a Fire energy or and Energy Search with two Eels is alot easier than setting up three Eels and having an energy in hand.
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Since when is it a guarantee that any hand that lacks a Fire Energy has an Energy Search? Last time I checked, it was very possible, and furthermore very likely, to whiff both.

You can have 3 Eels OR a DCE to charge Strong Volt. You get multiple outs to the same attack, whereas with Rayquaza you NEED a Fire Energy or you simply cannot get good use out of it. Furthermore, you can charge Zekrom-EX in two turns if absolutely necessary, whereas Rayquaza would still NEED the Fire Energy a turn later.

Regardless, DCE fits well enough in ZekEels to warrant playing it anyway. Fire would be used solely for Rayquaza, and Rayquaza is only useful in two matchups. On the other hand, you can use DCE to retreat Eelektrik, charge Mewtwo, Outrage, and Zekrom-EX more quickly, and prevent a huge discard on Raikou. DCE is clearly a better card for the deck.
 
Celebi23 said:
Why? What's Rayquaza going to do for you in that matchup? 40 damage? 90 damage? Mewtwo-EX is better because it will OHKO Terrakions. They both maintain an overall even Prize trade, but Mewtwo makes it go faster, putting a lot of pressure on their resources.

Both Rayquaza and Zekrom-EX are effectively useless in the matchup. But at least Zekrom-EX can surprise KO a Terrakion to remove all their Energy from play.
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The fact that you had to bring Mewtwo EX into this proves that you know you lost that arguement...Of course Mewtwo is an amazing choice for the match-up, but if you don't OHKO Terrakion (4-5 Energy needed), then the Prize trade is equal.

Celebi23 said:
Since when is it a guarantee that any hand that lacks a Fire Energy has an Energy Search? Last time I checked, it was very possible, and furthermore very likely, to whiff both.

You can have 3 Eels OR a DCE to charge Strong Volt. You get multiple outs to the same attack, whereas with Rayquaza you NEED a Fire Energy or you simply cannot get good use out of it. Furthermore, you can charge Zekrom-EX in two turns if absolutely necessary, whereas Rayquaza would still NEED the Fire Energy a turn later.

Regardless, DCE fits well enough in ZekEels to warrant playing it anyway. Fire would be used solely for Rayquaza, and Rayquaza is only useful in two matchups. On the other hand, you can use DCE to retreat Eelektrik, charge Mewtwo, Outrage, and Zekrom-EX more quickly, and prevent a huge discard on Raikou. DCE is clearly a better card for the deck.
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You said soley on Lightning Energy, you just made all of this^ invalid.

And Terrakion seems to do just fine with it's Fighting energy and Energy Search, so why would Rayquaza be any different? You don't have to take out any DCE or anything, just add in 2 Fire and 2 Energy search?
 
Personally, I'd say Rayquaza over Terrakion, Terrakion slows the deck down greatly which is the main reason.
 
Blui129 said:
Personally, I'd say Rayquaza over Terrakion, Terrakion slows the deck down greatly which is the main reason.
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Not really, a good list will still be consistant, I just like Rayquaza more because he's less situational, you can Donk, counter, and drop for 90 easily. Where as Terrakion, you have to have someone get KO'd for him to work effectivly, he can't Donk and he has to have two energy that only he can use to keep his usefulness.
 
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