(1) The EX’s, Ultra Rares, and Trainers of BW8 ‘Spiral Force’ and ‘Thunder Knuckle’ [12/12]
- Thread starter Water Pokémon Master
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giratina eh? *adds to darkrai list* bye bye sigi 
Latias walls more than sigilyph. It also 3HKO anytihng no matter what.
Darkrai or Terrakion deal the same damage to an Eviolited target as Latias does, more if they don't have an Eviolite, and are both better in other regards. If Latias's attack did 90 or more it would be playable. As it is its awful because it has a wierd energy cost, bad attack, and doesn't block nearly as many attackers as Sigilyph. It also gives up two prizes so its opponent won't be afraid to initiate EX prize trades by killing it.
Dark Void said:
1: Altaria breaks it into "90 damage or more" easy.
2: Blend can pay for both it's [R] and [P] cost.
3: it works in darkrai/hydreigon as an amazing tech.
for everything else there's a master card
LOL ALTARIA
Easy prizes, anyone?
Sigilyph is objectively better than Latias EX for a multitude of reasons.
~It only gives up 1 prize on defeat, plus its HP-to-prize ratio is higher anyway - 90 to 80.
~Its damage output is higher (especially with Weakness factored in), and is compatible with DCE.
~It blocks more opponents than Latias EX does (the only thing notable that Latias blocks that Sigilyph doesn't is Bouffalant, and even then, most EXs do not have abilities anyway and can hit Latias easily but can't touch Sigilyph), thus allowing it to counter a multitude of threats.
~It has a Weakness to Psychic, which although more common than Dragon is not found as often on non-EX cards, and basically every Dragon save Hydreigon can hit Latias anyway.
Giratina EX is better because Shred applies Weakness and deals more damage, for the same amount of Energy.
Nope, incorrect. Sigilyph walls more than Latias.
Are you people seriously trying to argue that Latias EX is better than Sigilyph? No. You're crazy. There are not nearly enough attackers with Abilities to justify that statement, and on top of Latias' objectively terrible damage output for an EX, she cannot do nearly as much (granted, Sigilyph does about as much, but blocks a lot more and only gives up 1 prize).
The only thing that Latias EX handles better than Sigilyph is Darkrai EX, and even then Darkrai decks have ways to deal with quirky threats, especially with the advent of Quad-Sigilyph.
Please, go home.
DNA said:
yeah sure, eels are just easy prizes as well, and we all know how unplayable that deck was 8 months ago when donks were all the rage.
DNA said:
I don't think you quite understand, with the exception of mewtwo, Latias by itself completely destroys Blastoise/Keldeo. It also turns the Klingklang, Lugia, and darkrai matchups heavily in your favor.
DNA said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure that the last time I checked, the point of darkrai/hydreigon was to tank hits then heal them off and slowly attack. Even with less HP Latias can take on many of hydregion's problems without taking damage (mirror, keldeo etc.) that would give giratina trouble.
DNA said:
didn't you agree with this guy?
so are you implying that latias is a bad card? If so then I believe you're the one who is being crazy, not us.
DNA said:
sigilyph has a good ability, better than latias even, but it's attack and pretty much everything else about it isn't even worth mentioning which is why latias is a better card. Are you really going to argue that it's bad because it can't hit for weakness or do 20 more damage? the 20 damage problem can be fixed and it can already hit through eviolite and abilities, so how can you argue that it's bad?
HoOhLugia said:
umm....yeah...
Anyway,
Latias has a better attack, but that doesn't make it any better than Sigilyph. I would personally use Sigi more just because it walls better and only gives up one prize when KOd. Altaria has 20 less HP than eels, and a Swablu start can get you donked by Emolga, though fighting resistance is nice when your opponet starts with Landorus. Latias just can't do enough damage or set up fast enough to compete against the other decks in our meta.
So do a lot of decks. Big deal. And Mewtwo EX is enough of a threat to make you think twice about running Latias EX; Mewtwo can 2HKO Latias whereas Latias can only 3HKO Mewtwo in return, unless there's an Altaria around, but lol Altaria.
Eels are not easy prizes. I don't know who planted that idea in your head and why, but they're not. They're weak to Fighting, but most Fighting types hit for 80 or 90 anyway, so it doesn't matter. 90 is the magic number this format. Altaria, however, has 70 HP. Rayquaza can knock that guy out with 1 Energy, never mind how easy it is to hit 70. Even your precious Latias EX one-hits Altaria.
A fair amount of setup is required to OHKO an Eel. You do not need as much to OHKO an Altaria.
Do you have a problem with Dark-Hydra builds that like to go for the throat? Besides, Giratina EX does 3 for 90, a little short of Darkrai's 120 (although you need 2 Blends for it), and being a Dragon with Shred, it can OHKO some things (like Rayquaza, Ray EX, and Sigilyph) that Darkrai cannot and would have a hard time with.
Of course I am! Weren't you listening to me?
It is a card that could have been good in another timeline. There are not enough attackers with Abilities that it would block (Darkrai and Bouffalant are the only things that Latias really handles better than Sigilyph, but Sigilyph can take on them and a whole lot more), and 3 for 70 in this format - without applying an ever-useful Dragon weakness - is not strong enough to justify using.
Its Ability is okay but it isn't good enough. Its attack is also okay but again it isn't good enough. Put them together and you have a Pokemon that could have been good but isn't. That's all, nothing more.
The Pikachu Mafia said:
You're talking about me, right? That was meant to be sarcastic. What was being said at the time was mostly "Latias can be Catchered around," "Latias doesn't do much damage," "most decks have an answer to Latias." Which is pretty much what everyone said about Sigilyph.
I don't think Latias is great, and I doubt Latias/Altaria will ever be a thing. But it definitely will have some uses. It's a good tech in Hydreigon, maybe even Ho-Oh, and it does wall some decks better then Sigilyph. It's been said by pretty much everyone that Latias is better against straight Darkrai, that alone is enough to give it some kinda of use. It also has more HP then Sigilyph. And with all these big basics with stupid good Abilities, I'm sure there will be one meta in one format where Latias will be unbeatable.
DNA said:
I'm going to say this slowly so you can understand me, Blastoise/Keldeo. Is. Tier. 1. That means that there isn't alot of stuff that "completely destroys this" we've argued this on another thread before -_-
Darkrai EX, Keldoe EX, Reshiram/zekrom BW (yes those unplayable dragons) Rayquaza EX, Landorus EX, terrakion NVI, Mew EX, Empoleon, Tornadus EX, and pretty much any semi playable card/EX you can name will ohko Eels like their nothing. I've been playing eel based decks since states, if their not easy prizes, then altaria isn't either (altaria still needs 3 night spear/hammerhead snipes before he goes down btw) also I forgot to mention that tynamo have bigger donking problems than swablu, so yeah eels are in the same boat as altaria.
I don't have a problem with an aggressive darkrai/hydreigon approach, but normal I see the conservative, bulky build come out on top, which would make latias better than giratina here.
Come back in 6 months when everyone has abilities in their decks (and many more attackers with abilities) that's the kind of format latias will be released in. Also if you think sigilyph is bad, then please stop trying to write off other cards that haven't even been released yet as worse cards. We're both just theorymoning here.
Let's agree to disagree. There are ways to improve it's attack, even you know that. Also it's ability relies completely on how many abilities there are in the format, of which there will be plenty of in a few months.
Machamp the Champion said:
um no not really, why?
@TPM
Swablu and Tynamo have the same ammount of donking problems, but what matters is the weakness on Eels/Altaria. Raquaza DV can OHKO Altaria for 1 energy, Eels can't be OHKOd for any less than 3 energy. Tornadus and Thundurus from EPO both hit 80 T2, enough to OHKO Altaria, 10 short of OHKOing Eelekrik. Garchomp/Altaria worked because you could set up multiple Garchomp by T3 at the latest, Latias takes 3 turns just to set itself up. Keldeo/Blastoise will die out the same way ReshiBoar did, it will be severely outclassed by decks that are faster and don't rely on having 7 energy on one pokemon and flipping heads on Item cards all the time. The only Energy excel. Latias will have will be either Ether or Chandelure. Good luck setting up 2 Chandelure and 2 Altaria every game though. And Ether doesn't work for Blend energy, so it becomes much harder to get the right kind of energy you need.
Swablu and Tynamo have the same ammount of donking problems, but what matters is the weakness on Eels/Altaria. Raquaza DV can OHKO Altaria for 1 energy, Eels can't be OHKOd for any less than 3 energy. Tornadus and Thundurus from EPO both hit 80 T2, enough to OHKO Altaria, 10 short of OHKOing Eelekrik. Garchomp/Altaria worked because you could set up multiple Garchomp by T3 at the latest, Latias takes 3 turns just to set itself up. Keldeo/Blastoise will die out the same way ReshiBoar did, it will be severely outclassed by decks that are faster and don't rely on having 7 energy on one pokemon and flipping heads on Item cards all the time. The only Energy excel. Latias will have will be either Ether or Chandelure. Good luck setting up 2 Chandelure and 2 Altaria every game though. And Ether doesn't work for Blend energy, so it becomes much harder to get the right kind of energy you need.
The Pikachu Mafia said:
I'm the one who said "That's exactly shy Sigilyph is bad too," not DNA. He may have said it too, but from his point of view on Sigilyph, I find that unlikely. This whole mix up kinda started when you quoted me, but instead of saying you quoted "Machamp the Champion" or some abbreviation, it just said quote, and then everyone got confused.
Machamp the Champion said:
Here it is
lol the fine print.
Okay I'd like to see a landorus try to ohko swablu then. In reality, tornadus/thundurus EPO aren't even played anymore and landorus 4hko's a swablu, while tynamo get slaughtered by landorus EX. Same amount of donking problems eh?Keeper of Night said:
Machamp the Champion said:
oh, I forgot to give you credit for saying that, is that it? well in that case sorry... But DNA did agree with you in an earlier post, so DNA did claim that sigilyph was bad.