(1) The EX’s, Ultra Rares, and Trainers of BW8 ‘Spiral Force’ and ‘Thunder Knuckle’ [12/12]

[Machamp The Champion]

@TPM
Swablu and Tynamo have the same ammount of donking problems

Okay I'd like to see a landorus try to ohko swablu then. In reality, tornadus/thundurus EPO aren't even played anymore and landorus 4hko's a swablu, while tynamo get slaughtered by landorus EX. Same amount of donking problems eh?

I'm the one who said "That's exactly shy Sigilyph is bad too," not DNA. He may have said it too, but from his point of view on Sigilyph, I find that unlikely. This whole mix up kinda started when you quoted me, but instead of saying you quoted "Machamp the Champion" or some abbreviation, it just said quote, and then everyone got confused.

oh, I forgot to give you credit for saying that, is that it? well in that case sorry... But DNA did agree with you in an earlier post, so DNA did claim that sigilyph was bad.

No, I didn't really care about credit. It just confused a lot of people.

 

[Keeper of Night]

@TPM
Swablu and Tynamo have the same ammount of donking problems

Okay I'd like to see a landorus try to ohko swablu then. In reality, tornadus/thundurus EPO aren't even played anymore and landorus 4hko's a swablu, while tynamo get slaughtered by landorus EX. Same amount of donking problems eh?

Emolga donks Swablu, but not Tynamo. So, yes, they have the same ammount of donking problems.

 

[Dork Void]

I'm going to say this slowly so you can understand me, Blastoise/Keldeo. Is. Tier. 1. That means that there isn't alot of stuff that "completely destroys this" we've argued this on another thread before -_-

Blastoise Keldeo is not even close to tier 1. Its 1.5-2 and will definitely be 2 or worse by the time Latias comes around. Its hard countered by Mewtwo and needs 7 energy on a keldeo ex before its stage 2 is helping you to win trades as much as Hydreigon does. Latias only barely counters it any better than Sigilyoh does; sure Blastoise can OHKO Sigilyph but losing the stage 2 the deck depends upon as well as 4 crucial energy without your opponent even burning a catcher in exchange for 1 prize is not worth it. Normal Keldeo is better at dealing with Siglyph, but guess what normal Keldeo also wrecks Latias.

Darkrai EX, Keldoe EX, Reshiram/zekrom BW (yes those unplayable dragons) Rayquaza EX, Landorus EX, terrakion NVI, Mew EX, Empoleon, Tornadus EX, and pretty much any semi playable card/EX you can name will ohko Eels like their nothing. I've been playing eel based decks since states, if their not easy prizes, then altaria isn't either (altaria still needs 3 night spear/hammerhead snipes before he goes down btw) also I forgot to mention that tynamo have bigger donking problems than swablu, so yeah eels are in the same boat as altaria.

Yeah, Eels aren't that tough to KO any more. That's why they are seeing a decline in popularity. Altaria are even easier to KO however. In just the list you mentioned, every single mon can OHKO Altaria as well except Ray EX needs 1 less energy discarded, Empoleon needs 2 less mons to be on the field for the OHKO, which is significant, Mew EX will often be copying Empoleon (see above) or Landorus, in which case it OHKOs Altaria but not Eels without having to discard. Then of course there are numerous cards that OHKO Altaria and not Eels, such as Tornadus and Thundurus (yes those unplayable genies), Rayquaza normal, Zweilous, Mewtwo with less energy, Garchomp (yeah nobody uses him any more but still), ho-oh with only 3 energy, the amount it Rebirths with,

I don't have a problem with an aggressive darkrai/hydreigon approach, but normal I see the conservative, bulky build come out on top, which would make latias better than giratina here.

And why exactly is Latias better than Giratina in a prize denial Darkrai/Hydreigon? Everything that would OHKO Giratina OHKOs Latias too (excluding Keldeo EX with 7 energy but really, that's not happening) while Giratina does much more damage and has an even more damaging second attack if need be. Sigilyph, already in many Darkrai/Hydreigon lists, is a better "not get hit at all" wall than Latias anyway. There is no need for Latias EX in any Hydra variant...or any other deck at all.

Come back in 6 months when everyone has abilities in their decks (and many more attackers with abilities) that's the kind of format latias will be released in. Also if you think sigilyph is bad, then please stop trying to write off other cards that haven't even been released yet as worse cards. We're both just theorymoning here.

What new attackers will be released that use abilities? Lugia EX and Deoxys EX? Yeah cuz those cards as well as even more attackers being released aren't stopped by Sigilyph too. In fact, Sigilyph actually stops them more as it KOs them faster.

I'm also not sure what made you think Sigilyph's attack is worse than Latias's. At 2 energy on the opponent they're doing the same amount of damage, and the only mons with 0 or 1 are going to be things that aren't set up yet, aka the extra damage on them doesn't really matter, Empoleon, which neither Latias or Sigilyph should be in against, or Mew EX copying Empoleon, which Sigilyph KOs faster. Since Sigilyph hits for weakness (and psychic is still fairly common) and does more damage against targets with 3 or more energy, which is most mons. Sigilyph's attack is also a lot easier to pay for, being able to use DCE, needing only 1 type of energy instead of two for when you don't have blend or prism, and it only needs 1 blend/prism as opposed to 2.

Call it theorymoning, but I can't see Latias actually doing better than Sigilyph against anything. If I can't, I see no reason not to call it worse than Sigilyph.

You're welcome DNA.

 

[Pokepower22]

I'm going to say this slowly so you can understand me, Blastoise/Keldeo. Is. Tier. 1. That means that there isn't alot of stuff that "completely destroys this" we've argued this on another thread before -_-

Blastoise Keldeo is not even close to tier 1. Its 1.5-2 and will definitely be 2 or worse by the time Latias comes around. Its hard countered by Mewtwo and needs 7 energy on a keldeo ex before its stage 2 is helping you to win trades as much as Hydreigon does. Latias only barely counters it any better than Sigilyoh does; sure Blastoise can OHKO Sigilyph but losing the stage 2 the deck depends upon as well as 4 crucial energy without your opponent even burning a catcher in exchange for 1 prize is not worth it. Normal Keldeo is better at dealing with Siglyph, but guess what normal Keldeo also wrecks Latias.

Blastoise/Keldeo has too many wins not to be T1. The deck can get 130+ off t2,and with SSU it works better.Also, Black Kyurem EX from the japanese battle strength decks aids blastoise alot.this Kyurem also doesnt have an ability and OHKO's almost every EX in the format (bar Tornadus EX with his addons(and Lugia EX).

 

[DNA]

You're welcome DNA.

Thank you. I really appreciate that. Saves me the trouble of having to do it. I gift to you three cookies of the flavor(s) of your choice.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Blastoise/Keldeo has too many wins not to be T1. The deck can get 130+ off t2,and with SSU it works better.Also, Black Kyurem EX from the japanese battle strength decks aids blastoise alot.this Kyurem also doesnt have an ability and OHKO's almost every EX in the format (bar Tornadus EX with his addons(and Lugia EX).

Blastoise is T1.5-2, as DV said. Never will it be T1 until it finds a better way to up it's damage output other than attatching 7+ energies to a single pokemon. Getting lucky on SSU doesn't make the deck any better. And the Kyurem EX is stopped by Sigilyph, so it can't count as helping the deck really.

 

[Pokepower22]

Blastoise/Keldeo has too many wins not to be T1. The deck can get 130+ off t2,and with SSU it works better.Also, Black Kyurem EX from the japanese battle strength decks aids blastoise alot.this Kyurem also doesnt have an ability and OHKO's almost every EX in the format (bar Tornadus EX with his addons(and Lugia EX).

Blastoise is T1.5-2, as DV said. Never will it be T1 until it finds a better way to up it's damage output other than attatching 7+ energies to a single pokemon. Getting lucky on SSU doesn't make the deck any better. And the Kyurem EX is stopped by Sigilyph, so it can't count as helping the deck really.

Then Blastoise or Keldeo BC 47 comes to KO Sigilyth. Its doing better than Hydreigon/Darkrai and has the 2nd most citys wins only to Bouffalant and co, so it must be able to do something right.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Then Blastoise or Keldeo BC 47 comes to KO Sigilyth. Its doing better than Hydreigon/Darkrai and has the 2nd most citys wins only to Bouffalant and co, so it must be able to do something right.

Yeah, be annoying

and lol at using Blastoise to KO Sigilyph
Do I need to tell you what a bad idea this is?

 

[pokedan24]

Pumace Stone: Amazing. Finally an alternative to Darkrai for free retreat.

Deoxys EX: I can see this one being used as a bench sitter. The attack isn't that great (especially since you need the plasma energy to get the added damage).

Heatran EX: Awful, even worse than Kyurem EX. Though the first attack has potential if we ever get something that can poison or burn the active (like Munna BC).

Latios EX: Could work with Alteria. Otherwise, it's too just expensive. I like the Kyurems better than this.

Super Energy Retrieval: I'd rather just use regular energy retrival.

Thunderus EX: Good enough. The first attack does some good damage for the cost and allows you to get special energies back from the discard. The second attack is expensive for the damage output, but the energy removal can really hurt unprepared opponents. I like.

Tornadus EX: Dark explorers one is way better.

Latias EX: Even better than Sigilyth against Darkrai/Hydreigon Keldeo/Blastoise since it stops both attackers. Also stops Bouffalant and Sigilyth. Bad against Mewtwo, tornadus, landorus, and many more.

Nice to see some good evolutions (and trainers) get full art versions.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Heatran EX: Awful, even worse than Kyurem EX. Though the first attack has potential if we ever get something that can poison or burn the active (like Munna BC).

Poison Hypnotic Beam – Trainer
Item (Plasma)

The Defending Pokemon is now Poisoned. Flip a coin. If heads, the Defending Pokemon is also Asleep.

You can use any number of Item cards during your turn.

 

[pokedan24]

I mean poisons your own active. Kind of like Munna only with poison.

 

[The Pikachu Mafia]

Blastoise Keldeo is not even close to tier 1. Its 1.5-2 and will definitely be 2 or worse by the time Latias comes around. Its hard countered by Mewtwo and needs 7 energy on a keldeo ex before its stage 2 is helping you to win trades as much as Hydreigon does. Latias only barely counters it any better than Sigilyoh does; sure Blastoise can OHKO Sigilyph but losing the stage 2 the deck depends upon as well as 4 crucial energy without your opponent even burning a catcher in exchange for 1 prize is not worth it. Normal Keldeo is better at dealing with Siglyph, but guess what normal Keldeo also wrecks Latias.

Blastoise is T1.5-2, as DV said. Never will it be T1 until it finds a better way to up it's damage output other than attatching 7+ energies to a single pokemon. Getting lucky on SSU doesn't make the deck any better. And the Kyurem EX is stopped by Sigilyph, so it can't count as helping the deck really.

Sounds like you two have never seen the deck in action before let alone use it. You don't ever ever ever ever EVER place 7+ energy on your keldeo with the exception of a "Hail Mary" play. You normally only put 3 energy on it, like any other normal attacker (darkrai, landorus, tornadus etc.) Which means you're consistently doing 110 damage per turn and 2hko'ing any pokemon, even ones with eviolite. Also the deck is tier 1, trying to argue that it isn't is both immature and childish. It has so many wins and top 4's that it's like saying darkrai or eels weren't tier 1 at spring Battle Roads.

seriously before you try to counter this post, please learn how to play the deck and get some actual facts.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Sounds like you two have never seen the deck in action before let alone use it. You don't ever ever ever ever EVER place 7+ energy on your keldeo with the exception of a "Hail Mary" play. You normally only put 3 energy on it, like any other normal attacker (darkrai, landorus, tornadus etc.) Which means you're consistently doing 110 damage per turn and 2hko'ing any pokemon, even ones with eviolite. Also the deck is tier 1, trying to argue that it isn't is both immature and childish. It has so many wins and top 4's that it's like saying darkrai or eels weren't tier 1 at spring Battle Roads.

seriously before you try to counter this post, please learn how to play the deck and get some actual facts.

I lol'd so hard as I read this post, and I shouldn't need to point out why, but I will try to anyway.

Sounds like you two have never seen the deck in action before let alone use it. You don't ever ever ever ever EVER place 7+ energy on your keldeo with the exception of a "Hail Mary" play. You normally only put 3 energy on it, like any other normal attacker (darkrai, landorus, tornadus etc.)

I have both seen and played this deck, and I hope I never need to do either again. If you play your deck the way you say, then why bother playing it at all? 3 energy on Keldeo? 2 turns at least. 3 Energy on Darkrai? 1 turn at least. Landorus sets itself up with 30+30 on T1. Tornadus hits 60 T1. The list goes on.

Which means you're consistently doing 110 damage per turn and 2hko'ing any pokemon, even ones with eviolite.

Lots of pokemon 2HKO anything, and others work by OHKOing. Move on to a better argument.

Also the deck is tier 1, trying to argue that it isn't is both immature and childish. It has so many wins and top 4's that it's like saying darkrai or eels weren't tier 1 at spring Battle Roads.

Blastoise/Keldeo...Tier 1...

Wait...uhhh...that doesn't compute.

 

[Dork Void]

Also the deck is tier 1, trying to argue that it isn't is both immature and childish.

It looks like you've evolved from "everyone who disagrees me is instantly wrong" to "everyone who disagrees with me is dumb and 10 years old". Its okay, I know how to deal with these kinds of people too.

Nuuuh-uuuuuuh

 

[Infinity]

Sounds like you two have never seen the deck in action before let alone use it. You don't ever ever ever ever EVER place 7+ energy on your keldeo with the exception of a "Hail Mary" play. You normally only put 3 energy on it, like any other normal attacker (darkrai, landorus, tornadus etc.) Which means you're consistently doing 110 damage per turn and 2hko'ing any pokemon, even ones with eviolite. Also the deck is tier 1, trying to argue that it isn't is both immature and childish. It has so many wins and top 4's that it's like saying darkrai or eels weren't tier 1 at spring Battle Roads.

seriously before you try to counter this post, please learn how to play the deck and get some actual facts.

I lol'd so hard as I read this post, and I shouldn't need to point out why, but I will try to anyway.

Sounds like you two have never seen the deck in action before let alone use it. You don't ever ever ever ever EVER place 7+ energy on your keldeo with the exception of a "Hail Mary" play. You normally only put 3 energy on it, like any other normal attacker (darkrai, landorus, tornadus etc.)

I have both seen and played this deck, and I hope I never need to do either again. If you play your deck the way you say, then why bother playing it at all? 3 energy on Keldeo? 2 turns at least. 3 Energy on Darkrai? 1 turn at least. Landorus sets itself up with 30+30 on T1. Tornadus hits 60 T1. The list goes on.

Which means you're consistently doing 110 damage per turn and 2hko'ing any pokemon, even ones with eviolite.

Lots of pokemon 2HKO anything, and others work by OHKOing. Move on to a better argument.

Also the deck is tier 1, trying to argue that it isn't is both immature and childish. It has so many wins and top 4's that it's like saying darkrai or eels weren't tier 1 at spring Battle Roads.

Blastoise/Keldeo...Tier 1...

Wait...uhhh...that doesn't compute.

please learn how to play the deck and get some actual facts.

2nded. Blastoise/Keldeo is definitely Tier 1.

Blastoise/Keldeo...Tier 1...

Says the person who used Garchomp/Altaria for Regionals and Battle Roads.

 

[Keeper of Night]

Blastoise/Keldeo...Tier 1...

Says the person who used Garchomp/Altaria for Regionals and Battle Roads.

I never tried to pass it as being T1 even though it did very well. Different people can play different decks better than others. Same thing for Blastoise/Keldeo, it may "work" for some people, but in the long run, it isn't T1.

 

[MountainDrew]

I don't really like this set. The only pokemon I like is the kingdra, dragonite, and latias, and latios. I don't really understand why latias is so hyped. I don't really see where it's that great. It's ability is nice but there are a ton of "good" pokemon that don't have abilities such as:
Mewtwo EX
Rayquaza EX
Tornadus EX
Landorus EX
Regular Rayquaza
Garchomp
Shaymin EX
Articuno EX
and lots of other guys.
I also don't think it's that great because it only does 70 damage and uses a lot of different energy. It also only has 160 hp. All I have to say is OVERRATED.

 

[Ice]

Garchomp is good?

 

[MountainDrew]

Garchomp is good?

I don't see where garchomp is that bad I mean sure he's no the BDIF but he isn't Terrible and one shots latias.

 

[Ice]

i changed my sig lol