I enjoyed the filler, they were rather fun. I don't get what people don't like about them ?.
Black and White - The Worst Series Yet?
- Thread starter Blob55
- Start date
Some people just hate filler because it's filler and doesn't have any bearing on the show at all. Personally, I can go either way depending on teh episode itself; if a particular filler episode has a fun mini-plot, or some good characterization, I don't think there's anything wrong with it. But if it's just, to use Pokémon specifically as an example, "run into random person, Team Rocket gets involved, Team Rocket is thwarted, random person's problems are fixed and/or Pokémon rescued" then that kind of story framework gets tiring after a while.
That said, I've seen a few episodes of BW and it seems very... mediocre. I don't really think it's necessarily bad, it's just not particularly interesting either. The best part is seeing the Pokémon in action and the kind of personalities they have... aside from my beloved Team Rocket, I don't really care much about the humans in the show at all, and they don't really seem to want to be likable either. >_>
That said, I've seen a few episodes of BW and it seems very... mediocre. I don't really think it's necessarily bad, it's just not particularly interesting either. The best part is seeing the Pokémon in action and the kind of personalities they have... aside from my beloved Team Rocket, I don't really care much about the humans in the show at all, and they don't really seem to want to be likable either. >_>
I personally don't mind fillers when I am watching a lot of episodes at once. I start to dislike it when I am waiting a whole week for a new episode and no progress is made in it. This is why I usually watch the anime in batches of episodes now! That way I see the progress made over the different episodes while still enjoying the fillers.
When I was a kid I got really bored watching the Johto saga because of all the fillers. It took Ash 157 episodes to get out of Johto, compared to the short 82 episode Kanto. There was one span in Johto where it was 40 episodes between two gyms, most of it being filler.
Ash's Johto Pokemon weren't given much development other than Bayleef, and Misty was pretty much shoved into the background in that entire arc, probably because the writers already knew they would be dropping her from the series at that point.
Johto should have been written the same way Kanto was, I don't understand why the writers thought bloating a region full of fillers was a good idea.
Ash's Johto Pokemon weren't given much development other than Bayleef, and Misty was pretty much shoved into the background in that entire arc, probably because the writers already knew they would be dropping her from the series at that point.
Johto should have been written the same way Kanto was, I don't understand why the writers thought bloating a region full of fillers was a good idea.
I personally loved Johto, a fresh new approach, great writers and great Pokémon.
The Pokémon, the places. I thought the Johto Region, had the best series. What do you expect, you want them to go from one gym to another ?. Then by all means do so, but the series has fillers. I enjoyed them, it's a series they are meant to have fillers.
precita said:
I don't have any real data to back me up, but I can imagine that the Kanto era was probably shorter just because at the time the studios didn't know how successful the show would be. By the time Gen 2 and then Johto series were released, they new the series was successful so they were willing to make the series longer. Subsequent series also appear to be more along the lines of the Johto region length: 166 for Hoenn, 158 for Sinnoh, and 135 so far for Unova. I haven't seen any seasons aside from Kanto, but I would think that the overall pacing probably improved in subsequent generations as they got more experience in making such a long storyline, Johto might feel slow to some because they would have used a very similar framework to Kanto, just made it longer.
TheTPCProductionz said:
Uh, did you not see what they did in other regions? Johto dumbed the show down considerably from Kanto, having excessive repetitive episodes about Ash helping trainers and TR stealing Pikachu in every episode. All that sense of darkness from Kanto was gone and the show went on its repetitive formula.
Yeah there were some good Johto episodes, but the majority of it was just a mess. Look at how poor Ash's Johto team was, how boring/stale Misty became, even Brock and Gary didn't get much screentime.
I liked the series, it was my favourite. I was a child when I first watched them, I watch them now and still enjoy them.
TheTPCProductionz said:
Funny thing is I was young when I watched it too, and even back then I knew what I was watching was worse than Kanto and to a lesser extent Orange Islands. I wouldn't be surprised if that's why the writers abandoned the original trio and Misty for good afterwards, mainly because they tried to reunite it in Johto and it fell flat.
I don't think it failed or fell flat, may just be a matter of opinion.
I think the Black/White series was trying too hard to be like the Indigo League and Johto series which is where I think it failed upon. Cilan and Iris felt like carbon copies of Brock and Misty from the original series without any soul. Alot of the Unova region Pokemon were carbon copies of Gen I and Gen II Pokemon like Sawk/Throh being like Hitmonlee/Hitmonchan not to mention Amoonguss being a rip-off of Electrode. I will admit that Paul was the closest good rival Ash had since Gary from the original series. Who would've thought Gary would give up being a Pokemon Trainer to become like his grandfather researching Pokemon? Trip in the Black/White series was terrible especially when he battled against Alder where they both only used one Pokemon each instead of having a full 6 on 6 battle.
The bit where Ash's Pikachu temporarily loses it's electric powers from Zekrom at the beginning of the Black/White series wasn't even as good as in Season 1 of the Indigo League where Ash and Pikachu were chased by that group of Spearow during a thunderstorm when he tried to get Pikachu to a Pokemon Center from borrowing Misty's bike to get there when later Ash sees Ho-Oh flying above him before Ho-Oh was even introduced into the franchise in Gen II. In other words there was much more suspense and drama in the original series compared to the Black/White series which just pales in comparison to it. Everything in the Black/White series just felt rushed, repetitive as usual with fillers, with the same recycled plots/storylines that has made the Anime series very stale since the end of the Johto series in Gen II.
I enjoyed the Hoenn and Sinnoh series but maybe it's because of Brock, May, Max, and Dawn. The battles were even more enjoyable although I didn't really care that much for the Pokemon Contests where as in Hoenn the Battle Frontier was really interesting because it almost seemed like it would've been the series that gave closure to Ash and Pikachu in the Anime series which turned out to be completely false but in the Sinnoh League where Tobias was thrown in to stop Ash and Pikachu from winning was a terrible deus ex machina on the writers' part as an attempt to keep using him and Pikachu as a marketing tool when the Anime isn't called, "Pokemon: The Adventures of Ash and Pikachu" it's called "Pokemon". Beyblade made a huge comeback in that Anime series with Gingka over Tyson plus it didn't flop, same can be said for the Pokemon Anime If they replace Ash and Pikachu with new main protagonists to bring life into the Pokemon Anime again.
I think the biggest problem the Pokemon Anime has had since the beginning is that since it's based on a video game franchise that has the player go from "Point A to Point B" that the Anime has done it so many times in a way that there's been no real effort from the writers and producers of the series to put in something unique, fascinating, and original like they did back in the original series that ended after Johto. Alot of people complain that all the characters in the Anime series don't age or grow, that everyone is stuck in some kind of time limbo but I guess you could say the same thing for an Anime/Manga series like Detective Conan (a.k.a. Case Closed) which has been going on as long as One Piece and Pokemon has. Lupin the Third is another example of an Anime/Manga series ongoing since last year that's been around since the 60's and 70's where none of the characters in it have actually aged, not even Fujiko Mine.
The bit where Ash's Pikachu temporarily loses it's electric powers from Zekrom at the beginning of the Black/White series wasn't even as good as in Season 1 of the Indigo League where Ash and Pikachu were chased by that group of Spearow during a thunderstorm when he tried to get Pikachu to a Pokemon Center from borrowing Misty's bike to get there when later Ash sees Ho-Oh flying above him before Ho-Oh was even introduced into the franchise in Gen II. In other words there was much more suspense and drama in the original series compared to the Black/White series which just pales in comparison to it. Everything in the Black/White series just felt rushed, repetitive as usual with fillers, with the same recycled plots/storylines that has made the Anime series very stale since the end of the Johto series in Gen II.
I enjoyed the Hoenn and Sinnoh series but maybe it's because of Brock, May, Max, and Dawn. The battles were even more enjoyable although I didn't really care that much for the Pokemon Contests where as in Hoenn the Battle Frontier was really interesting because it almost seemed like it would've been the series that gave closure to Ash and Pikachu in the Anime series which turned out to be completely false but in the Sinnoh League where Tobias was thrown in to stop Ash and Pikachu from winning was a terrible deus ex machina on the writers' part as an attempt to keep using him and Pikachu as a marketing tool when the Anime isn't called, "Pokemon: The Adventures of Ash and Pikachu" it's called "Pokemon". Beyblade made a huge comeback in that Anime series with Gingka over Tyson plus it didn't flop, same can be said for the Pokemon Anime If they replace Ash and Pikachu with new main protagonists to bring life into the Pokemon Anime again.
I think the biggest problem the Pokemon Anime has had since the beginning is that since it's based on a video game franchise that has the player go from "Point A to Point B" that the Anime has done it so many times in a way that there's been no real effort from the writers and producers of the series to put in something unique, fascinating, and original like they did back in the original series that ended after Johto. Alot of people complain that all the characters in the Anime series don't age or grow, that everyone is stuck in some kind of time limbo but I guess you could say the same thing for an Anime/Manga series like Detective Conan (a.k.a. Case Closed) which has been going on as long as One Piece and Pokemon has. Lupin the Third is another example of an Anime/Manga series ongoing since last year that's been around since the 60's and 70's where none of the characters in it have actually aged, not even Fujiko Mine.
I voted for being terrible but not the worst but I've changed my mind. The Johto saga was terrible and dull but after seeing Black & White, it wins because it is the sixth or so season of the anime and it failed completely. The only good thing that will make me remember this season is that Team Rocket was, for a moment, able to get serious and to business and forget the stupidity of always following the brats and trying to catch Pikachu.
I mean, in Unova, the Pokémon cast was kept without evolution so it would be more fun and easy to create the plot. I love Oshawott, Emolga, Snivy and Scraggy and they wouldn't have been the same if they were to evolve but c'mon, Oshawott could have turned into a joyful but capable samurai Pokémon and Snivy could even be more capable at her motherly role by evolving (even becoming more menacing in case of disobedience!). I've just realised that there was no character development for Team Rocket's Pokémon. Yamask's and Woobat's "capture" were copies of those of Brock's Zubat and James' Cacnea and after that they were only slaves without getting the spotlight for even one episode. Even more shalllow it comes when thinking of Amoonguss and Frillish: mute slaves without personality.
Cilan is there to fill the cooker/creepy/weird guy role and Iris is far from even learning something about dragons with an Axew that will always be childish and useless as a dragon Pokémon. Even Misty achieved more as a wannabe Water-type master than Iris.
To make things worse: Ash is always there is still is the main character even after failing Arceus knows how many times.
I mean, in Unova, the Pokémon cast was kept without evolution so it would be more fun and easy to create the plot. I love Oshawott, Emolga, Snivy and Scraggy and they wouldn't have been the same if they were to evolve but c'mon, Oshawott could have turned into a joyful but capable samurai Pokémon and Snivy could even be more capable at her motherly role by evolving (even becoming more menacing in case of disobedience!). I've just realised that there was no character development for Team Rocket's Pokémon. Yamask's and Woobat's "capture" were copies of those of Brock's Zubat and James' Cacnea and after that they were only slaves without getting the spotlight for even one episode. Even more shalllow it comes when thinking of Amoonguss and Frillish: mute slaves without personality.
Cilan is there to fill the cooker/creepy/weird guy role and Iris is far from even learning something about dragons with an Axew that will always be childish and useless as a dragon Pokémon. Even Misty achieved more as a wannabe Water-type master than Iris.
To make things worse: Ash is always there is still is the main character even after failing Arceus knows how many times.
Rivals are an important thing. Not being able to guess who will win each time they face off is what it is all about. Best have been gary and paul.
Having gary drop out before ash in kanto was great because even though they didnt have to face off it showed the progress ash had made compared to his rival and when they finally faced off in Hoen Charizard v Blastoise it was intense!!
Personally i think gary is the perfect rival and will never be topped.
Paul was great because even though you were supposed to hate him, a lot of viewers could see parts of themselves in him. Think back to playing pokemon yellow on the gameboy colour, Why would you catch a lv4 pidgey when you could walk around aimlessly another 20 seconds and find a lv9 one. That is what Paul is all about!
Having gary drop out before ash in kanto was great because even though they didnt have to face off it showed the progress ash had made compared to his rival and when they finally faced off in Hoen Charizard v Blastoise it was intense!!
Personally i think gary is the perfect rival and will never be topped.
Paul was great because even though you were supposed to hate him, a lot of viewers could see parts of themselves in him. Think back to playing pokemon yellow on the gameboy colour, Why would you catch a lv4 pidgey when you could walk around aimlessly another 20 seconds and find a lv9 one. That is what Paul is all about!