Counter That Pokemon! - Round 20
- Thread starter Professor Palutena
- Start date
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 12
blame the calculator I used (and y'all can use it too).
http://honko.byethost8.com/coverage_calc.html
then again, substitute shenanigans make counters hard :/ i was first thinking Ttar would be the best counter when I saw how little it took from all the moves, while also negating leftovers recovery. Then I remembered that it can sub stall Stone Edge :/
and yeah, the set I posted for Kyurem-B wasn't really even that good anyways
blame the calculator I used (and y'all can use it too).
http://honko.byethost8.com/coverage_calc.html
then again, substitute shenanigans make counters hard :/ i was first thinking Ttar would be the best counter when I saw how little it took from all the moves, while also negating leftovers recovery. Then I remembered that it can sub stall Stone Edge :/
and yeah, the set I posted for Kyurem-B wasn't really even that good anyways
PMJ
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RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 12
I actually used that exact set on a team and it works like a dream
I don't think I've ever regretted not having dragon stab.
Also Dark Void is right, his counter is legit.
I actually used that exact set on a team and it works like a dream
I don't think I've ever regretted not having dragon stab.
Also Dark Void is right, his counter is legit.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 12
I'll see your Slowbro, and raise you a Slow/king/
[animate]slowking[/animate] @Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
Calm nature
252 HP/200 Def/56 SpDef
~Scald
~Psyshock/Flamethrower
~Dragon Tail
~Slack Off
Slowking with 252 HP/200 Def can tank Psyshock just fine, especially with regenerator. If Reuniclus was running Shadow Ball (which this one isn't), Slowking would be better suited to take a shot and live. Dragon Tail would phase Reuniclus out, and potentially push forward a different teammate that is not suited for attacking within Trick Room. It's also cool for surviving Latios and Latias better than Slowbro. I suppose you could use Ice Beam, but if you were trying to counter Salamence, then you'd just use Slowbro
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I'll see your Slowbro, and raise you a Slow/king/
[animate]slowking[/animate] @Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
Calm nature
252 HP/200 Def/56 SpDef
~Scald
~Psyshock/Flamethrower
~Dragon Tail
~Slack Off
Slowking with 252 HP/200 Def can tank Psyshock just fine, especially with regenerator. If Reuniclus was running Shadow Ball (which this one isn't), Slowking would be better suited to take a shot and live. Dragon Tail would phase Reuniclus out, and potentially push forward a different teammate that is not suited for attacking within Trick Room. It's also cool for surviving Latios and Latias better than Slowbro. I suppose you could use Ice Beam, but if you were trying to counter Salamence, then you'd just use Slowbro
.RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 12
Latias @ Leftovers
Timid Nature
252 HP/252 Spe/4 Sp Att
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- HP Fire
- Recover
Latias can tank any of Reuniclus' attacks and simply set up his Calm Minds. Reuniclus is either forced to switch out or die.
Latias @ Leftovers
Timid Nature
252 HP/252 Spe/4 Sp Att
- Calm Mind
- Dragon Pulse
- HP Fire
- Recover
Latias can tank any of Reuniclus' attacks and simply set up his Calm Minds. Reuniclus is either forced to switch out or die.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 12
One of the best counters has been posted, but I still have yet to see the other one.
This round will end on the 15th.
One of the best counters has been posted, but I still have yet to see the other one.
This round will end on the 15th.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 12
Round over!
PMJ and TPO3 get 1 point each. Chillarmy gets 2. Best counters were any Latios variant, and any Latias variant.
Round 13
[animate]landorus[/animate]
Landorus @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
IVs: 30 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Polish
Go!
Round over!
PMJ and TPO3 get 1 point each. Chillarmy gets 2. Best counters were any Latios variant, and any Latias variant.
Round 13
[animate]landorus[/animate]
Landorus @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 64 HP / 252 SAtk / 192 Spd
IVs: 30 Spd
Modest Nature
- Earth Power
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Rock Polish
Go!
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
Celebi @ Leftovers
252 HP/220 Sp Def/36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- HP Ice
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
Landorus can't touch Celebi, with HP Ice only having a 25% chance to 3HKO while Celebi can just Recover and hit back with HP Ice. You really don't have to run HP Ice, because with LO recoil Landorus is going to die pretty quick. something like U-Turn, HP Fire, or Stealth Rock works too.
Celebi @ Leftovers
252 HP/220 Sp Def/36 Spe
Calm Nature
- Giga Drain
- HP Ice
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
Landorus can't touch Celebi, with HP Ice only having a 25% chance to 3HKO while Celebi can just Recover and hit back with HP Ice. You really don't have to run HP Ice, because with LO recoil Landorus is going to die pretty quick. something like U-Turn, HP Fire, or Stealth Rock works too.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
Shedinja is not viable in OU. Try again.Dark Void said:
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
[animate]gengar[/animate] @Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Timid nature
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
~Substitute
~Pain Split
~Shadow Ball
~Focus Blast
The only thing Landorus can hit it with is HP Ice, which isn't going to do very much. (and Landorus still takes Life Orb recoil.) Gengar can just Shadow Ball it to death.
[animate]gengar[/animate] @Life Orb
Trait: Levitate
Timid nature
4 HP/252 SpAtk/252 Spe
~Substitute
~Pain Split
~Shadow Ball
~Focus Blast
The only thing Landorus can hit it with is HP Ice, which isn't going to do very much. (and Landorus still takes Life Orb recoil.) Gengar can just Shadow Ball it to death.
PMJ
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RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
surskit@leftovers
calm 252 hp 252 spdef 6 spatk
-hydro pump
-protect
if you keep hazards off the field this surskit has a shot at winning one on one
just goes to show you how cool this typing would be if it were on anyone viable
come on gen 6 don't fail me now
will think up a (more) legit one later
surskit@leftovers
calm 252 hp 252 spdef 6 spatk
-hydro pump
-protect
if you keep hazards off the field this surskit has a shot at winning one on one
just goes to show you how cool this typing would be if it were on anyone viable
come on gen 6 don't fail me now
will think up a (more) legit one later
PMJ
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RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
Gyarados, and here's why:
1. Intimidate provides better team support than Levitate does. Moxie can actually help sweep, too, but I think DV should pick one and stick with it.
2. Gyarados is a lot bulkier than Gengar. Pain Split alleviates that a little, but Gengar can't switch into nearly as many attacks.
3. I think Teapot is underestimating the power of Landorus's HP Ice:
Detailed Result:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Ice vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Gengar: 48.85% - 57.25%
Entry hazards damage: 32
After entry hazards: 160 - 182 (61.07% - 69.47%)
2 hits to KO
If Lando crits, Gengar dies, so he's a check, not a counter. Even though it's a small percentage chance to crit, that's still something that should be taken into consideration. (Gengar does easily score the OHKO, however, if he survives). Meanwhile...
Detailed Result:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Ice vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Gyarados (+SpDef) : 18.32% - 21.63%
Entry hazards damage: 98
After entry hazards: 170 - 183 (43.26% - 46.56%)
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Gyarados easily comes out on top.
Gyarados, and here's why:
1. Intimidate provides better team support than Levitate does. Moxie can actually help sweep, too, but I think DV should pick one and stick with it.
2. Gyarados is a lot bulkier than Gengar. Pain Split alleviates that a little, but Gengar can't switch into nearly as many attacks.
3. I think Teapot is underestimating the power of Landorus's HP Ice:
Detailed Result:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Ice vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Gengar: 48.85% - 57.25%
Entry hazards damage: 32
After entry hazards: 160 - 182 (61.07% - 69.47%)
2 hits to KO
If Lando crits, Gengar dies, so he's a check, not a counter. Even though it's a small percentage chance to crit, that's still something that should be taken into consideration. (Gengar does easily score the OHKO, however, if he survives). Meanwhile...
Detailed Result:
252 SpAtk Life Orb Landorus (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Ice vs 248 HP/252 SpDef Gyarados (+SpDef) : 18.32% - 21.63%
Entry hazards damage: 98
After entry hazards: 170 - 183 (43.26% - 46.56%)
5-6 hits to KO (with Leftovers)
Gyarados easily comes out on top.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
Why is that Gyarados running max defenses when it's not RestTalk? I understand the point of this is to counter, but at the same time there's a rule about uncompetitive sets. A Gyarados that can't outspeed base 90's at +1 does not work.
Why is that Gyarados running max defenses when it's not RestTalk? I understand the point of this is to counter, but at the same time there's a rule about uncompetitive sets. A Gyarados that can't outspeed base 90's at +1 does not work.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
Distinguishing a counter from a check because of a crit is weak. That's like saying Chansey isn't a Tornadus-T counter because Superpower might crit. Relying on a crit to take down a pokemon is not a good idea in any situation.
That being said, I will acknowledge that HP Ice does a crapload to Gengar, and much more than Gengar would rather take. However, with LO recoil and Gengar's Pain Split, Gengar can usually kill with Shadow Ball. Yes, maybe it is a check, but with 25% of prior damage Landorus loses.
Distinguishing a counter from a check because of a crit is weak. That's like saying Chansey isn't a Tornadus-T counter because Superpower might crit. Relying on a crit to take down a pokemon is not a good idea in any situation.
That being said, I will acknowledge that HP Ice does a crapload to Gengar, and much more than Gengar would rather take. However, with LO recoil and Gengar's Pain Split, Gengar can usually kill with Shadow Ball. Yes, maybe it is a check, but with 25% of prior damage Landorus loses.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 13
I really can't accept that Gyarados set due to how bad it is outside of beating Landorus. Sure it may be a surefire way to beat Landorus, but it's a terrible set outside of that regard (since it can't outspeed anything when boosted, which is pretty pathetic).
Anyways, Round is over!
Chillarmy gets two points for the best Defensive counter. Specially Defensive Celebi is (iirc) 3HKOed by Hidden Power Ice, but it can stay afloat thanks to Giga Drain, which (iirc) 4HKOs this Landorus-I set.
TPO3 gets 1 point.
Dark Void gets 0 because while his set is a counter, it is not viable in OU. It's like the Eviolite Gligar vs Terrakion situation in the OP. You cannot get points for having specialized counters that only do one thing.
Best Offensive Counter, as PMJ pointed out, was Gyarados. I would've accepted Choice Band, Dragon Dance, Bulky Dragon Dance or RestTalk. I would not have accepted Choice Scarf Gyarados as the best offensive counter due to a lack of assumed rain, which Scarf Gyarados needs to be threatening.
Round 14!
[animate]toxicroak[/animate]
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
Assume rain is up.
I really can't accept that Gyarados set due to how bad it is outside of beating Landorus. Sure it may be a surefire way to beat Landorus, but it's a terrible set outside of that regard (since it can't outspeed anything when boosted, which is pretty pathetic).
Anyways, Round is over!
Chillarmy gets two points for the best Defensive counter. Specially Defensive Celebi is (iirc) 3HKOed by Hidden Power Ice, but it can stay afloat thanks to Giga Drain, which (iirc) 4HKOs this Landorus-I set.
TPO3 gets 1 point.
Dark Void gets 0 because while his set is a counter, it is not viable in OU. It's like the Eviolite Gligar vs Terrakion situation in the OP. You cannot get points for having specialized counters that only do one thing.
Best Offensive Counter, as PMJ pointed out, was Gyarados. I would've accepted Choice Band, Dragon Dance, Bulky Dragon Dance or RestTalk. I would not have accepted Choice Scarf Gyarados as the best offensive counter due to a lack of assumed rain, which Scarf Gyarados needs to be threatening.
Round 14!
[animate]toxicroak[/animate]
Toxicroak @ Black Sludge
Ability: Dry Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
Assume rain is up.
RE: Counter That Pokemon! - Round 14
[animate]skarmory[/animate] @Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy (obviously lol)
Impish nature
252 HP/232 Def/24 Spe
~Roost
~Spikes
~Brave Bird
~Whirlwind
Brave Bird everything?? It'll eat a +2 Drain Punch without too many problems, and then safely OHKO. I was gonna post Landorus-T first, but then I realized Toxicroak would outspeed without a heavy speed investment, and then you'd have to eat a +1 Ice Punch, which is a tad worse. This little bugger is hard to counter.
[animate]skarmory[/animate] @Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy (obviously lol)
Impish nature
252 HP/232 Def/24 Spe
~Roost
~Spikes
~Brave Bird
~Whirlwind
Brave Bird everything?? It'll eat a +2 Drain Punch without too many problems, and then safely OHKO. I was gonna post Landorus-T first, but then I realized Toxicroak would outspeed without a heavy speed investment, and then you'd have to eat a +1 Ice Punch, which is a tad worse. This little bugger is hard to counter.