Greninja BREAK

In regards to the discussion for techs for the Sceptile match-up: don't bother. You know how some decks just have those auto loss match-ups, but better than evens chance in all other areas? This is the case here. If Sceptile is a problem in the meta, and running rampant, Greninja is just a bad deck choice, you need a deck capable of OHKOing, otherwise you get nowhere, as the Sceptile player can just heal cycle all day, and Glaceon and Regice to nothing to stop that. And with Pokemon Ranger in the format, they just drop that and away they go.

The other problem with Regice and Glaceon is their energy costs, both for attacking and retreating are far too high for this deck, without giving more spaces to them, in the shape of Float Stone and Max Elixir. Playing Elixir with less than 10 energy makes it too likely to fail, so you need to up energy count (I'm playing 8 right now). So, for even a 1 Regice and 1 Glaceon, adding 2 Float Stone, 3 Elixir and 2 Energy means 9 slots have gone to some 'tech choices'. Nope, not worth it.

As for Talonflame, its a really interesting solution to the mulligan problem the deck obviously has, and the ability to search for 2 cards means the deck gets a whole load more consistent, those two cards can easily set up multiple breaks a few turns earlier. I've seen discussion of running 4 Talonflame, dropping Jirachi, 1 Froakie and something else. Seeing as we lose Hard Charm and Muscle Band anyway, as well as Xerosic and Startling Megaphone, plenty of spaces open up.

And finally, on the topic of those tools that rotate, I've been testing Bursting Balloon more and more. It is fantastic. If they attack, its basically a free GWS, and that makes KOs much better. If they don't, you get another turn of setup, which can make a huge difference. And with Xerosic and Megaphone out, an extra Lysandre (I'm at 2 now) makes grabbing the Garbodor a little easier.
 
am considering teching in the new talonflame from steam siege - just watched Bert Walters (day 1 worlds) start with it 2/3 times and it seemed to work well for him. thoughts?
I didn't see him play and I can't find it on youtube, how did he use Talonflame BREAK.
 
In regards to the discussion for techs for the Sceptile match-up: don't bother. You know how some decks just have those auto loss match-ups, but better than evens chance in all other areas? This is the case here. If Sceptile is a problem in the meta, and running rampant, Greninja is just a bad deck choice, you need a deck capable of OHKOing, otherwise you get nowhere, as the Sceptile player can just heal cycle all day, and Glaceon and Regice to nothing to stop that. And with Pokemon Ranger in the format, they just drop that and away they go.

The other problem with Regice and Glaceon is their energy costs, both for attacking and retreating are far too high for this deck, without giving more spaces to them, in the shape of Float Stone and Max Elixir. Playing Elixir with less than 10 energy makes it too likely to fail, so you need to up energy count (I'm playing 8 right now). So, for even a 1 Regice and 1 Glaceon, adding 2 Float Stone, 3 Elixir and 2 Energy means 9 slots have gone to some 'tech choices'. Nope, not worth it.

As for Talonflame, its a really interesting solution to the mulligan problem the deck obviously has, and the ability to search for 2 cards means the deck gets a whole load more consistent, those two cards can easily set up multiple breaks a few turns earlier. I've seen discussion of running 4 Talonflame, dropping Jirachi, 1 Froakie and something else. Seeing as we lose Hard Charm and Muscle Band anyway, as well as Xerosic and Startling Megaphone, plenty of spaces open up.

And finally, on the topic of those tools that rotate, I've been testing Bursting Balloon more and more. It is fantastic. If they attack, its basically a free GWS, and that makes KOs much better. If they don't, you get another turn of setup, which can make a huge difference. And with Xerosic and Megaphone out, an extra Lysandre (I'm at 2 now) makes grabbing the Garbodor a little easier.
I see what you're saying, I guess if you think people are going to be playing a lot of Sceptiles in your area, consider maybe even using a different deck for that tournament. Besides that the biggest thing you can do is battle hard and just try to knock out Sceptile.
 
am considering teching in the new talonflame from steam siege - just watched Bert Walters (day 1 worlds) start with it 2/3 times and it seemed to work well for him. thoughts?
It depends if you want to commit that space. You need 3-4 Talonflame to make it worth it I personally would rather less pokemon and more trainer usage out of those four spots and cards with more usage if you don't get it in your opening hand. But like I said, it is just personal preference.
 
Love the Talonflames. But seriously, the mirror match is the most boring thing in the entire world. Basically it goes to deck out. Anyway to beat the mirror? Because I'm sure you are gonna face it with how popular this deck will be.
 
Love the Talonflames. But seriously, the mirror match is the most boring thing in the entire world. Basically it goes to deck out. Anyway to beat the mirror? Because I'm sure you are gonna face it with how popular this deck will be.
Well, try to go second and hope for a faster setup....
 
Love the Talonflames. But seriously, the mirror match is the most boring thing in the entire world. Basically it goes to deck out. Anyway to beat the mirror? Because I'm sure you are gonna face it with how popular this deck will be.
We have Pokémon Ranger now and if you really don't wanna sit and wait when facing a mirror, Bent Spoon is also an option.
 
Guys what do you guys think the current state of Greninja Break is?

- Garbodor is a threat with no current counter (even with Lysandre you can't kill it in 1 turn). THIS IS for me the biggest threat. Most decks are using a 2-2 line.
- High HP pokemon are a threat too. Best case scenario you do 200DMG in one turn > 2x60 GWS + 80 Moonlight Slash (having 3 Breaks on the field and using switch to hit a 3rd GWS seems to me almost impossible). You can probably try using Giovanni's Scheme, but it seems a bit meh. Faded Town should work better for KO-ing most megas but then you need Stadium Control.
-/+ mSceptileEX is a threat as always, however the current meta seems like a worse place for that deck than it is for Greninja Break.
+ We got Talonflame to ease the set up, yet it's a dead card if you don't start with it.
+ Bursting Balloons, we can run 4x Copies and the only way our opponent can get around them is either by not attacking for 1 turn or by using Lysandre as his supporter for the turn.
+ It's a deck that doesn't need Shaymin. So your opponent in order to take 6 prizes has to ko 6 pokemon.

I've built a Darktina deck for now and my old beloved Greninja is currently sitting in my binder. I can probably sell it for 50-60$ and buy something else, however at this point of the season, when nobody is sure how the meta is going to shift and what decks will be viable should I do it? Do you believe that there is a chance we see 1-2 reprints or new cards -like muscle band/megaphone/xerosic- that will be able to give a slimmer of life back to our water ninja?
 
Guys what do you guys think the current state of Greninja Break is?

I've built a Darktina deck for now and my old beloved Greninja is currently sitting in my binder. I can probably sell it for 50-60$ and buy something else, however at this point of the season, when nobody is sure how the meta is going to shift and what decks will be viable should I do it? Do you believe that there is a chance we see 1-2 reprints or new cards -like muscle band/megaphone/xerosic- that will be able to give a slimmer of life back to our water ninja?

I think you should wait the next expansion and the next promos, also Garbodor may be just a hype and people will probably start to drop them after a while. I don't think Greninja is so weaker than it was before, sure Garbodor is a problem, but it may stop being in a few months. I won't sell my deck until I'm totally sure it won't be so strong. Anyway, at least for me, my city meta isn't so hyped about Garbodor and things are almost the same for me, so you should check, if you don't plan to attend to big championships soon and Garbodor isn't a problem where you play, this is just one more reason to wait and see how things turn out.
 
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I think you should wait the next expansion and the next promos, also Garbodor may be just a hype and people will probably start to drop them after a while. I don't think Greninja is so weaker than it was before, sure Garbodor is a problem, but it may stop being in a few months. I won't sell my deck until I'm totally sure it won't be so strong. Anyway, at least for me, my city meta isn't so hyped about Garbodor and things are almost the same for me, so you should check, if you don't plan to attend to big championships soon and Garbodor isn't a problem where you play, this is just one more reason to wait and see how things turn out.

That's an solid and good point. I'm not currently in the need of money, I'm just thinking that a month back I could have easily sold it for 80-90 instead of ~50$ that it currently goes for. A reveal of a new card can make this deck really strong and so its price will go up again, however if we don't see such a card in the next months Greninja Break will drop even more and since I'm more into competitive than collecting I'll lose the opportunity to trade/sell it for something else that is more probable to be in the meta during next season.
By no means is Greninja Break a bad deck. In my opinion, it's a good enough, fun to play, budget deck that depending on how competitive your league is able to make it into Top cuts. Garbodor is almost everywhere right now though (at least for me) like high HP pokemon (FFB or Megas).
A single megaphone/xerosic-like card could bring this deck back as a tier 2 deck and that's what I'm hoping for.

So I guess we'll have to bear the agony at least until the Sun&Moon base set reveals :p
 
Garbodor is the only thing that I've found really hinders greninja in the current format but I've found that talonflame starts don't struggle too badly with it as aero blitz has enough flexibility to allow you to lysandre each turn and does enough damage to put into moonlight slash range but it definitely is annoying that there is no damage modification you can run to ensure you can kill garb in one lysandre. Asides from garb, I think gren has positive match ups against pretty much every other common deck asides from mega sceptile which I think has questionable viability in the current format where tina is still popular and volc is common, but yeah, as was mentioned, it's probably worth waiting for the next expansion as the format is very narrow atm.
 
The best thing I've found for tool removal is minccino with sweep away. It hurts consistency by adding a basic Pokemon to the list but it's something to consider. As soon as trainer based tool removal returns, greninja will no longer have trouble with garbotoxin.
 
Greninja has 170HP and when you haven't taken any damage it's not easy for your opponent to KO so that's a plus.

How I see the deck going right now vs the most famous/common ones:
  • mRay, you can counter with Parallel city and maybe (just maybe, never tested it: Faded Town, to be able to KO in 1 turn). You can also easily snipe Shaymins with 2 GWS for 2 prizes. However it can start KOing you much easier and faster than you can set up. KOing a Greninja Break is really easy too, while it has 220HP so it's nearly impossible to 1HKO it.
  • mMewtwo, most decks run Garbodor. If they don't then they need 6 energies to 1hKO an 170HP Break since most of the times your Greninja won't have energies attached to it. Damage change is a thing, but you probably run Delinquent so you'll win the stadium war.
  • Dark-tina, again most common builds run 2-2 Garbodor. Darkrai needs 7 dark energies on the field + 1FFB to 1HKO you. Also, again high HP EXs...
  • mScizorEX, "Garb and High HP"
  • Volcanion variants, free win?
  • mGardevoirEX, good match up?
  • Xerneas variants, good matchup?
  • mSceptileEX, just ff (although it's not that good of a deck vs anything else so we won't probably see it that often)
A sinlge megaphone reprint would solve so many problems for this deck.
Running 1xMinccino would be inconsistent and complicated I guess. I'll just wait for the next sets to be announced :p
 
Well, I have the Wave Slasher Theme Deck, so I believe that Greninja BREAK is my next step, but I have some questions:
  • Why Octillery is no more on the list? Most of videos or contents of some weeks ago plays a 2-2 line. And why run Talonflame over it is a good idea?
  • If I wanna build it Expanded, will it be viable? What changes do you suggest?
Thanks, guys o/
 
Well, I have the Wave Slasher Theme Deck, so I believe that Greninja BREAK is my next step, but I have some questions:
  • Why Octillery is no more on the list? Most of videos or contents of some weeks ago plays a 2-2 line. And why run Talonflame over it is a good idea?
  • If I wanna build it Expanded, will it be viable? What changes do you suggest?
Thanks, guys o/
Octillery is actually not as good as just playing 4 n/4 sycamore, talon flame adds damage and consistency to a normally slow setup deck, and in expanded Maxie's hidden ball trick for archeops exists so it may or may not be viable, depends on your local meta. Greninja break is a great deck though.
 
I was thinking about building both online and offline. Hex Maniac cannot deal with Archeops?
Yes, it's a continual effect preventing you from evolving into even frogadier. Not sure why you want a hex maniac in greninja when shadow stitching has the same effect. That's a waste of space in a tight decklist.

The Maxie's archeops also usually happens on turn 1, locking you completely out of the game because you rely evolution cards.
 
But Shadow Stitching effect is on just until the end of my opponent's next turn, so I'm not able to evolve after I attack, right?

Yeah, now I see how Maxie's work. So the way is just in Standard...
 
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