Greninja BREAK

[Sabaku]

I don't think that Splash energy is bad in the deck, however I don't think that you'll make use of it that much since you can't discard it for a GWS and since most of the times you'll want to return it to your hand for the extra damage from moonlight slash.

The most vital stage of the game for Greninja is when you're setting up your Frogadiers.
First of all, it has to be ASAP. (so best case scenario to make your day: you go second with a water energy and a Wally in hand).
Then, if you have more than 1 Frogadier prized (once I had 3) you're pretty much done.

After this point, if you have 3 or 2 Frogadiers on your bench and you're running enough Dive balls/Ultra balls, you'll be able to have 2-3 Greninjas out.
You'll also have to run 2xSuper Rod as your frogs die pretty easy until they go Break.

I have won vs mMewtwo decks even when they had Garbodor out by making smart use of my stadiums (Faded town mostly) and Bursting Balloons but for that to happen you need at least 3 Greninjas out ASAP, then it can be pretty easy.

Really, between the Bursting Balloons and the Giant Water Shurikens (and regular Shurikens if you play Expanded), Greninja only really needs two fully functional BREAKs on the field to clean up the game. Having more than one Frogadier prized can make the process rather messy like you said, but if you're running Splash Energy and can keep it on, that will probably be a saving grace in the long-run.

If we want to be realistic about Greninja's standing in the meta, how high it is depends entirely on how willing people are to cope with abilities. Even in Standard, I can see a Greninja deck making it to Top Cut simply because few people felt a burning need to run Garbodor or multiple Hex Maniacs, and like you said, even after total ability lock, Greninja has other means of chipping away at the opponent.

Anyways, on a personal note, I would say that Greninja BREAK is perfectly fine staying at Tier 2. Its abilities and the durability of its BREAK allow it to overwhelm many opponents, but with reliable tool removal gone in Standard, its too easy for it to get caught in its own head as well as Garbodor's clutches. If we were to get reliable tool removal in the future, then Greninja would easily be worthy of occupying the Tier 1 bracket.

 

[Capablanca]

How do u think guys, is there a room in this deck for a new-coming card

Pretty much, its not gonna be useful?

 

[LightningCloud224]

How do u think guys, is there a room in this deck for a new-coming card

Pretty much, its not gonna be useful?

It's a gorgeous card with interesting attacks but takes two energies to do the significant damage and has a retreat cost of 1 in a deck that values mobility and energy conservation.

 

[TheGuardian118]

Spoiler

How do u think guys, is there a room in this deck for a new-coming card

Pretty much, its not gonna be useful?

It could be interesting, but it might mean you need to run a float stone or extra switching cards. The spread damage could be useful after a few turns, provided the ability lock isn't more important.

 

[Vitiel]

What are some nuances in piloting this deck that a newcomer may miss? Like, if we should keep Talonflame around if we start with it for as long as possible, work arounds for Garbodor in Standard, weird tricks, etc

 

[Sabaku]

What are some nuances in piloting this deck that a newcomer may miss? Like, if we should keep Talonflame around if we start with it for as long as possible, work arounds for Garbodor in Standard, weird tricks, etc

1.) Bursting Balloon is your best friend. So long as Garbodor still remains common, you're going to be stuck on the defensive for a lot of your battles. Bursting Balloon will help you maintain the upper hand in the prize trade, and don't forget that Greninja BREAK is a 170 HP single prize, single energy attacker.

2.) Talonflame is a Pokemon that sets off a lot of red flags. Don't expect to be able to just Aero Blitz for the cards you need unless it's the mid to late game. It's all to easy to get N'd into a fresh hand after using it, but it could be used for mind games early on.

That's all I got so far.

 

[Vitiel]

1.) Bursting Balloon is your best friend. So long as Garbodor still remains common, you're going to be stuck on the defensive for a lot of your battles. Bursting Balloon will help you maintain the upper hand in the prize trade, and don't forget that Greninja BREAK is a 170 HP single prize, single energy attacker.

2.) Talonflame is a Pokemon that sets off a lot of red flags. Don't expect to be able to just Aero Blitz for the cards you need unless it's the mid to late game. It's all to easy to get N'd into a fresh hand after using it, but it could be used for mind games early on.

That's all I got so far.

Bursting Balloon is life. Thank you especially for the bit about Talonflame, though; I'd put myself into an impression that I kept it active as I set up my frogs.

Also, this is how the build I'm testing now looks.

 

[Sabaku]

Bursting Balloon is life. Thank you especially for the bit about Talonflame, though; I'd put myself into an impression that I kept it active as I set up my frogs.

Also, this is how the build I'm testing now looks.

Out of curiosity, have you ever humored the idea of running Puzzle of Time as a substitute for Talonflame or Trainers' Mail? If you're running Rare Candy and Teammates, you could pull it off very well. It lets you potentially get out of a bind with Rare Candy more often and gives you an option to recycle Bursting Balloons and Stadiums without sacrificing consistency.

 

[Vitiel]

Out of curiosity, have you ever humored the idea of running Puzzle of Time as a substitute for Talonflame or Trainers' Mail? If you're running Rare Candy and Teammates, you could pull it off very well. It lets you potentially get out of a bind with Rare Candy more often and gives you an option to recycle Bursting Balloons and Stadiums without sacrificing consistency.

No, but it sounds like an interesting take.

 

[LightningCloud224]

How does this deck deal with accelgor wobbuffet? If you don't evolve into the break they can one shot you with laser bank support.

 

[Evader]

How does this deck deal with accelgor wobbuffet? If you don't evolve into the break they can one shot you with laser bank support.

I feel like this isn't the deck to play in Expanded. There are many much safer choices

 

[LightningCloud224]

I feel like this isn't the deck to play in Expanded. There are many much safer choices

This deck build was very consistent. And that doesn't answer my question. How does the matchup work?

 

[Greninja13]

Does anyone here know when Greninja lost in Masters Division in Orlando? Because I know Greninja crushed in Phoenix.

 

[Vitiel]

This is where I'm at now. I think I'm more or less solid, with tiny kinks I still wanna test through. I'm planning on heading to Fort Wayne with this.

 

[Sabaku]

This is where I'm at now. I think I'm more or less solid, with tiny kinks I still wanna test through. I'm planning on heading to Fort Wayne with this.

Hmm...seems kind of standard to me. You're probably going to run into a lot of Garbodor while you're there, so wouldn't it be best to be prepared to play the long game? If it were up to me, I would probably drop 1 N and 1 Ace Trainer to make room for a Max Potion or two. With so many decks running Megas and Fighting Fury Belts and rarely having access to GWS, your damage output isn't going to be that high. If we had some proper tool removal, I would suggest running the new Starmie, but since that's not the case, you'll be stuck playing the defensive a lot. Maybe having at least 1 Splash Energy would also be nice so that you can keep Greninjas on the field.

 

[Vitiel]

Hmm...seems kind of standard to me. You're probably going to run into a lot of Garbodor while you're there, so wouldn't it be best to be prepared to play the long game? If it were up to me, I would probably drop 1 N and 1 Ace Trainer to make room for a Max Potion or two. With so many decks running Megas and Fighting Fury Belts and rarely having access to GWS, your damage output isn't going to be that high. If we had some proper tool removal, I would suggest running the new Starmie, but since that's not the case, you'll be stuck playing the defensive a lot. Maybe having at least 1 Splash Energy would also be nice so that you can keep Greninjas on the field.

Max Potion is still one of the things I'm kinda juggling through. I think I'm just paranoid it'll be useless against many of those decks that can reach for OHKO like Darkrai/Yveltal, Xerneas BREAK/M Gardevoir-EX, and Mewtwo (sort of Volcanion too but that's not a tough matchup generally).

 

[Sabaku]

Max Potion is still one of the things I'm kinda juggling through. I think I'm just paranoid it'll be useless against many of those decks that can reach for OHKO like Darkrai/Yveltal, Xerneas BREAK/M Gardevoir-EX, and Mewtwo (sort of Volcanion too but that's not a tough matchup generally).

Even if the decks you're going against are often reaching for OHKOs, you'll have Bursting Balloons to help with keeping up the prize trade. The only hard part will be finding an answer to repetitive Lysandre plays. I can see why you would add Delinquent to the deck list. If your opponent focuses too much on going after prizes with their Lysandres and Vs. Seekers, they'll have a hard time reloading their hand, which creates a big opening. Perhaps the best time to use Bursting Balloons will be right after you use Delinquent to remove any random elements. After that, you'll have an opening to punish your opponents.

 

[Vitiel]

Even if the decks you're going against are often reaching for OHKOs, you'll have Bursting Balloons to help with keeping up the prize trade. The only hard part will be finding an answer to repetitive Lysandre plays. I can see why you would add Delinquent to the deck list. If your opponent focuses too much on going after prizes with their Lysandres and Vs. Seekers, they'll have a hard time reloading their hand, which creates a big opening. Perhaps the best time to use Bursting Balloons will be right after you use Delinquent to remove any random elements. After that, you'll have an opening to punish your opponents.

That's a good point. I can say that Delinquent has been huge for me so far.

 

[Sabaku]

That's a good point. I can say that Delinquent has been huge for me so far.

And I can certainly see that being the case. With as much searching power as you have in both Talonflame and Teammates, getting to Delinquent quickly shouldn't be a problem. If anything, it could save you a lot in the long-run when you have to go against stuff like M Mewtwo Y.

 

[Vitiel]

Right now I'm actually trying to tech in the Greninja promo for kicks. It actually seems okay as a 1-of.