Hip Hop/Rap

Shadow Arceus said:
I'm sure there are some rappers out there who actually make good lyrics. Real musicians can do that in addition to singing and/or playing an instrument.
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So right now you're going to debate and undebatable topic into the fact that rappers have better lyrics than any other genre. Out of all the things I've ever heard people argue, this is not one of them. In most other genres artists only have to sound good for their album to be a hit, if a rapper doesn't have lyrics that can be broken down they're pushed into obscurity. Do not argue a topic you clearly do not know. Listen to some of the rappers that 6Dimension listed and tell me that they can not write. Even Main stream artists have good lyrics baring the most mainstream of them (Wiz Khalifa and Drake).

And the majority of "real" musicians you refer to do not write their own lyrics. A lot of these "real" artists you speak of have either ghost writers, or collaborators who are accredited for writing their songs. Again invalid point.

And your point to playing an instrument is also silly. A lot of rappers can play instrumenets, in fact a lot of them even produce for themselves. Kanye West, B.o.B, XV, Tyler the Creator, Mellowhype, even Eminem has produced for himself before.

Don't come into an appreciation thread to talk down the thread, especially when you have no clue what you're talking about. At least culture yourself first.
 
As if they even need to play instruments, some of their talents with speaking are really amazing, how they can rap so quickly and clearly (see: Doseone).
Not to mention the excellent word play and poetry in their lyrics, that's enough to be an artist, plenty of musicians only write the lyrics and sing while others compose their songs.
EDIT: Ninja'd
 
Good for Wax and the others who actually can do something besides just recite and write words. That makes them musicians.
Lilsparks, when did I list real musicians? I wasn't arguing that the rappers who actually write good lyrics have inferior lyrics to other musicians. I realize I was stereotyping, and I should've been more clear as to the type of rap I can't stand. It's the kind who only recite lyrics that I can't stand. Also, a song being a hit does not make it good.
 
The bottom line for me is that rappers are a type of musician.
Musicians are people who make music, in any form. Rappers make music.
Ergo, rappers are musicians.

It must really suck to be talented in every sense of music, but be judged as a rapper just because it's what you do more than anything else.
 
Shadow Arceus said:
Good for Wax and the others who actually can do something besides just recite and write words. That makes them musicians.
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Now you're admitting that good rappers are musicians, same thing with good folk singers, alternative musicians, etc.
So it's not rappers that aren't real musicians, it's bad musicians that aren't real musicians.
 
LORDY JONES said:
Now you're admitting that good rappers are musicians, same thing with good folk singers, alternative musicians, etc.
So it's not rappers that aren't real musicians, it's bad musicians that aren't real musicians.
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THISTHISTHIS
Quoted
 
Yes, and I realize I should've been more clear about it. I'd call somebody a musician if they can do something other than just speak words.
 
You don't need to do anything more than write and recite words to be a musician, who are you to question what validates something as art?
 
So, me reading the emancipation proclamation aloud makes me a musician? What about reciting poems? Those have rhythm, does that make it music?
 
LORDY JONES said:
You don't need to do anything more than write and recite words to be a musician, who are you to question what validates something as art?
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I'm glad you didn't just let him keep saying that all artists are doing are reciting lyrics. I was getting a little upset lol.
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Edit: Ok now I'm upset. You can't keep talking about things you clearly do not understand. Does it sound like they're are reciting the emancipation? Please let me know what you are hearing that you'd use such a odd comparison?

Right now I could take your arguement and flip it to say that just because I can blow into a hole and sound comes out I'm a musician. Or just because I can read the emancipation and then sing it, I'm a musician. You're coming with really lame points.
 
Shadow Arceus said:
So, me reading the emancipation proclamation aloud makes me a musician? What about reciting poems? Those have rhythm, does that make it music?
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If the artists wants to call it music, yes.
Some music (See: pretty much all post-rock ever) is essentially just twenty minutes of white noise with distorted talking, that doesn't mean it's not music.
 
Well, Lordy Jones, you have a valid point. Who am I to decide whether or not it's music? For that matter, who is the artist do decide whether or not it's music? If a person records an AC making noise and calls it music does that make it music?
 
Yes it does, if it's sound and it's art, it's music. Whether or not it's music is decided by the artist.
 
I suppose this particular argument boils down to one's definition of music. You may define it as audible "art", I may define it as singing or playing some sort of instrument, it's just our particular point of view.Lilsparks, I don't think you understand what I was saying at all, though.
 
I clearly don't, because I've given you refutes to every point that you've made. You've yet to give me any examples of what you consider music, or at the very least a glimpse of the hiphop/rap music that you had clearly believed anyone with no talent could make. I can't think of you as anyone outside of someone who had turned on their radio and heard a rap song, and based their whole opinion about it without any further research or interest into the matter. At least until I hear otherwise tbh.
 
That's exactly what's happening SA, it's just unfortunate that your idea of music is incredibly closed minded and backed up by very little, if anything.
 
yes, lilsparks, because that's obviously what I did. I turned on the radio and heard one song I don't like and decided at all rap music was exactly like that one. That works for so many things in life. For example I've only met one person from Boston and they have an accent to that must mean that all of them have accents. In case you can't tell I'm being sarcastic.
You clearly missed my point about the emancipation proclamation. I said that because Lordy Jones said that just reciting words and calling it music makes it music. I'll admit that I missed what you said about blowing into a hole and calling it an instrument. You have a good point there and I see my view-point was flawed about that.
I may disagree still with Lordy Jones that you can't just make random noises and call it art and that makes it music, but you have made some good points.
 
I was actually saying that what's you did, but I was saying you haven't said anything to tell me otherwise. And I actually understood what you were saying about the emancipation once I saw that LORDY JONES had said that. In that case I can see the justification. I'd still like to know what you have listened to though, and maybe I or someone else can make a better recommendation.
 
I give most artists a shot, even if I don't care for their particular style of music. Some I absolutely hate, like the kind that's all about drugs and sex, some I can respect, like the ones who can play instruments and/or sing. I still don't care for it too much, but I can stand some.
 
So how about: Lupe Fiasco, XV, Kanye West, Blu, or Pusha T. And that's to name a few. Most of those names are pretty well known and all signed to major labels.
 
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