Ho-oh EX Variants

Well yeah, that's a given :p

What about Cilan? I personally hate this card in general, but someone actually used it on my in the mirror and got a T1 Ho-Oh. Considering no one's posted a list here with Cilan, I think it's safe to say no one takes it seriously. But still, do you think it could be useful, especially if you have three to four Random Receiver?
 
No. Just No. If it was a trainer (well blastoise Keldeo would tear through everything lol) yeah, but I'd rather have a normal supporter then one that is limited to energy only, and basic energy at that. Receiver + Cilan = Late Game rage.
So yeah, definitely not. Not worth it.
 
I usually try to avoid using Ho-Oh at all costs, and have it in there as a backup plan when I need a fast attacker. And no Cilian. It is good(ish) in Blastoise and Blastoise only.
 
I'm not saying four Cilan. Probably just the one (if any at all). I wouldn't use it anyway, but I saw someone use it with moderate success, hence the question. I agree, I'd rather have a new hand, but some people seem to think otherwise, so I though I'd ask others for their opinions.

venasour x said:
I usually try to avoid using Ho-Oh at all costs, and have it in there as a backup plan when I need a fast attacker.
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I just use it for acceleration; I don't attack with it unless I have too.
 
Mora said:
I'm not saying four Cilan. Probably just the one (if any at all). I wouldn't use it anyway, but I saw someone use it with moderate success, hence the question. I agree, I'd rather have a new hand, but some people seem to think otherwise, so I though I'd ask others for their opinions.
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I've tried using Cilan, but never seemed to land him earlier enough for it to matter. It did work out in a few games for an early Ho-Oh, and helped me for a T1 Tornadus doing 100, but that was only once.

For just playing around in leagues or with friends, Cilan is a good card though, makes up for never getting the energy in your hand when you need it haha
 
Does anybody think that this deck just doesn't cut the mustard anymore?

I don't want to believe it's true but let's face the facts. Darkrai+Dark Claw+Hypnotoxic nullifies one of the best parts of Terrakion (gets around Retaliate and also OHKOs) and Mewtwo is less effective against Keldeo now that most have been trimming back and focusing more on Black Kyurem which can KO Mewtwo outright and clean up with Keldeos if necessary. I just don't see how this deck could keep up now with these new cards that have come out.

dmaster out.
 
I'm sure this has been thought of before, but I've tried it out in a few plays and it's helped out..

But wouldn't Virizion (97/101 NV) help out in this Blastoise/Keldeo matchups?

It got me out of tight spots and I managed to pull out a few wins, but I wasn't sure if they were just doing something wrong and I just got lucky.. or anything.
 
It unfortunately doesn't quite OHKO Keldeo. In fact, the only thing it OHKO's the first time you use it is Squirtle. I just think they'll OHKO it before you can use it twice to do 160. Maybe the one from Emerging Powers, but it's harder to charge up. I haven't actually used it in a Keldeo matchup, though.
 
dmaster said:
Does anybody think that this deck just doesn't cut the mustard anymore?

I don't want to believe it's true but let's face the facts. Darkrai+Dark Claw+Hypnotoxic nullifies one of the best parts of Terrakion (gets around Retaliate and also OHKOs) and Mewtwo is less effective against Keldeo now that most have been trimming back and focusing more on Black Kyurem which can KO Mewtwo outright and clean up with Keldeos if necessary. I just don't see how this deck could keep up now with these new cards that have come out.

dmaster out.
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Yes, yes, so much yes. People also don't realize that placing Ho-oh EX on your bench is a huge liability against a major portion of the meta.
 
It was already a bad thing before, so that doesn't change.

The things that have changed are that the Basics that you would normally be safe to play down throughout the game (talking about Mewtwo, Sigilyph, Terrakion, Bouffalant, etc) are just no longer good against the meta either as stand-alone attackers. I just don't see how it works anymore. Not to mention the fact that most of the lists can't fit in Lasers themselves to help with additional damage since fitting everything in was already tight.

dmaster out.
 
dmaster said:
It was already a bad thing before, so that doesn't change.

The things that have changed are that the Basics that you would normally be safe to play down throughout the game (talking about Mewtwo, Sigilyph, Terrakion, Bouffalant, etc) are just no longer good against the meta either as stand-alone attackers. I just don't see how it works anymore. Not to mention the fact that most of the lists can't fit in Lasers themselves to help with additional damage since fitting everything in was already tight.

dmaster out.
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I meant Blastoise is just going to get more popular than it already was.
 
dmaster said:
Does anybody think that this deck just doesn't cut the mustard anymore?

I don't want to believe it's true but let's face the facts. Darkrai+Dark Claw+Hypnotoxic nullifies one of the best parts of Terrakion (gets around Retaliate and also OHKOs) and Mewtwo is less effective against Keldeo now that most have been trimming back and focusing more on Black Kyurem which can KO Mewtwo outright and clean up with Keldeos if necessary. I just don't see how this deck could keep up now with these new cards that have come out.

dmaster out.
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That is unfortunatly true. I refuse to give up on it atm because I traded all my Darkrai away a while ago. So until I get more I think I'm going to stick with Ho-Oh :/
I will try to make it work at least. Right now I have 1 spot free for techs (3 if you count my Virizion and Victini), and I think it is going to end up being another Hypnotoxic, Virizion, Terrakion, Tool Scrapper, or if by some magical luck I find a counter for Black Kyurem EX.

I think the biggest thing this deck has going for it is the fact it is able to abuse non-EX attackers. Granted Mewtwo and Ho-Oh give up 2 prizes, but because it can effectively charge up Terrakion and Bouffalant out of nowhere, because you can possibly make your opponent take 7 Prizes I think that is what this deck needs to focus on.
 
I think what's going to keep Ho-Oh alive in the meta is it's versatility. If Sigilyph and Bouffalant no longer cut it, than you can just switch up your Pokemon to recounter the meta. I have no idea what's going to be popular, but Victini or Moltres could counter Klinklang, Virizion or some other Grass type can cover Keldeo, if Snorlax gets popular, throw in an extra Terrakion. You can use just about anything. The only thing that worries me is whether or not there will be good enough Basic Pokemon to counter what people are playing.
 
Mora said:
I think what's going to keep Ho-Oh alive in the meta is it's versatility. If Sigilyph and Bouffalant no longer cut it, than you can just switch up your Pokemon to recounter the meta. I have no idea what's going to be popular, but Victini or Moltres could counter Klinklang, Virizion or some other Grass type can cover Keldeo, if Snorlax gets popular, throw in an extra Terrakion. You can use just about anything. The only thing that worries me is whether or not there will be good enough Basic Pokemon to counter what people are playing.
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I think what Ho-oh's problem will be is that Blastoise is a bad matchup, Klingklang's going to be a tough matchup, and Darkrai won't be as easy anymore because of Terrakion's reduced effectiveness. It gets to a point where you just say to yourself, "why bother?"
 
I honestly don't have that bad of a time with Blastoise when I run a Tornadus focus. I've managed to get Benchtini in a few KlingKlang games and Darkrai has never been a problem for me, granted I've never had one with the new lasor tech... but I'm sure there are ways to figure it out.

My "Why bother" is a simply "Why not?" There are many ways to build this deck, and many different ways to come out on top. I'm willing to lose in close matched games and tweek my deck as many times as it needs. Until it comes a day that I get creamed every single game and NEVER have a chance, then there is always a way to win with Ho-Oh IMO.
 
Linadra said:
I honestly don't have that bad of a time with Blastoise when I run a Tornadus focus. I've managed to get Benchtini in a few KlingKlang games and Darkrai has never been a problem for me, granted I've never had one with the new lasor tech... but I'm sure there are ways to figure it out.

My "Why bother" is a simply "Why not?" There are many ways to build this deck, and many different ways to come out on top. I'm willing to lose in close matched games and tweek my deck as many times as it needs. Until it comes a day that I get creamed every single game and NEVER have a chance, then there is always a way to win with Ho-Oh IMO.
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Yes, there is always a way to win with Ho-oh, but it gets to a point where running Ho-oh EX is lowering your chances of winning any given tournament.
 
Slowbro said:
Linadra said:
I honestly don't have that bad of a time with Blastoise when I run a Tornadus focus. I've managed to get Benchtini in a few KlingKlang games and Darkrai has never been a problem for me, granted I've never had one with the new lasor tech... but I'm sure there are ways to figure it out.

My "Why bother" is a simply "Why not?" There are many ways to build this deck, and many different ways to come out on top. I'm willing to lose in close matched games and tweek my deck as many times as it needs. Until it comes a day that I get creamed every single game and NEVER have a chance, then there is always a way to win with Ho-Oh IMO.
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Yes, there is always a way to win with Ho-oh, but it gets to a point where running Ho-oh EX is lowering your chances of winning any given tournament.
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From a certain perspective, I can see that.. but the versatility (And the fact that everyone assumes that Ho-Oh is becoming a bad run) then their strategy will have to change when they see the particular deck a person may be running. I'm just saying, I'd rather run my Ho-Oh deck and come out just below top 4 than run a Blastoise deck and win just for the sake of winning.
 
I think that we can at least agree that Ho-Oh has more staying power than other decks simply due to its versatility. While it's not immune to becoming obsolete, I think that being able to adjust to the format (more so than most) increases its odds of staying in the meta.
 
I think the Hypnotoxic was a blow, but the worst part is the new Black Kyruem EX straight up counters Mewtwo. But at least it won't be as terrible as when Super Energy Retieval comes out.
 
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