Is Pokémon No Longer Respected as a Card Game?

I'm sorry but Pokemon is not in depth or competitive compared to the other games. In terms of learning curve, pokemon is definitely the shortest, and in terms of competition it's not close either to the other card games because of the prizes etc...I mean of course it's not respected when the winner of Masters division gets a scholarship and magic winners get straight up cash. Pokemon is just not set up to or portrayed to be taken seriously, hence it's looked down upon (especiall by people 16+).

I agree with the point that most people who bash it are the ones that have never played since I find it quite fun, but I just don't find it to be as difficult as YGO or Magic to be honest.
 
YGO is definitely a more complex game than pokémon. I've barely every been in a discussion over rules in pokemon while it happens all the time in YGO. There are a crazy amount of cards in the game all with different effects which is able to interact with other effects in various ways to create complex situations.

I think one of the main beauties to pokémon TCG is in fact it's simplicity. It's easy for anyone to pick up and play but still has enough complexity for older players such as myself to enjoy. However the game does give off a very childish impression which might be the biggest factor to why older players prefers to play YGO or Magic instead.

In my country there unfortunately isn't much of a competitive pokémon scene to speak off while Magic and YGO is still doing fairly well.
 
I find that the main argument against the Pokemon TCG is that it is to simple. Every competetive deck operates similarly and there is not enough variety in the metagame. While as other card games are, although more complex, taking advantage of that trait and giving their players a wider range of strategies and mechanics to create ideas around. While every Pokemon deck I have seen mainly focuses on getting your six prize cards as fast as possible.

In my opinion, I feel that Pokemon has turned into a type of 'introduction TCG', one that introduces players to the concept of a card game and then turns them off(whether it wants to or not) to other card games.
 
bagoly14 said:
I'm sorry but Pokemon is not in depth or competitive compared to the other games.
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What other games? The multiple ways (there are 3) a player can win a game, altering your game strategy as a game progresses, defeating a deck you should "normally" lose to, etc. are just a few examples of how in-depth a Pokémon game can be. Furthermore, I've personally played against some of the best players in the world at different tournaments and those games were extremely intense and competitive. And playing in the upper Midwest which is one of the top regions in the world helps to maintain a very high level of competitive play.

When I really think about it, the one game that immediately comes to my mind that I would agree is more competitive is chess where there is NO luck, NO randomness, FIXED playing components and field, and NO hidden pieces. Other than that one game, I know of no other game that I would readily say is "more" competitive than Pokémon, especially if there is ANY random element to the game.
 
Conzipe said:
YGO is definitely a more complex game than pokémon. I've barely every been in a discussion over rules in pokemon while it happens all the time in YGO. There are a crazy amount of cards in the game all with different effects which is able to interact with other effects in various ways to create complex situations.

I think one of the main beauties to pokémon TCG is in fact it's simplicity. It's easy for anyone to pick up and play but still has enough complexity for older players such as myself to enjoy. However the game does give off a very childish impression which might be the biggest factor to why older players prefers to play YGO or Magic instead.

In my country there unfortunately isn't much of a competitive pokémon scene to speak off while Magic and YGO is still doing fairly well.
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Complex rulings doesn't make Pokemon worse off. It just means YGO can't design cards in a long term which is why their card interactions from cards five to ten years apart are confusing. Bottom line, it's more of poor card design and forecasting rather than "game is more complex"


I also hear from people that there is still luck in chess. I'd hjave to read up on that again though.
 
YGO is definitely a more complex game than pokémon. I've barely every been in a discussion over rules in pokemon while it happens all the time in YGO.
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Have you ever actually looked at the Rulings forum here before? Because the card game has been dumbed down so much, there are now more rulings questions asked about Gen 5 cards than I've ever seen in the past...and about 90% of them are about the simplest things.

Talk about lack of foresight.
 
For all of you raging about my big sis saying the Pokemon TCG is too complicated... My sister's nuts. Thought I'd point that out :D
 
Riskbreakers said:
Complex rulings doesn't make Pokemon worse off. It just means YGO can't design cards in a long term which is why their card interactions from cards five to ten years apart are confusing. Bottom line, it's more of poor card design and forecasting rather than "game is more complex"


I also hear from people that there is still luck in chess. I'd have to read up on that again though.
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I never said Pokémon is worse than Yu-Gi-Oh, absolutely not!
I think both games have their own charm.

That Yu-Gi-Oh is more complex can both be seen as a good and a bad thing.
Things like poor card/game design actually contributes to the games complexity but makes it more confusing as a result. Both how the amount of cards, how they are designed and how the game play enables your opponent to react to any play you might make creates a lot of variables.

Pokémon is very easy for new players to learn and get a hang of. While it might not require as much knowledge to play competitively, it's still able to presents you with enough important decisions to make the game fun.


I have actually been playing chess competitively for many years. Right now I'm only teaching other people how to play chess in my local club however.
There arguably is an amount of luck in chess.
For example you can be lucky that the opponent missed a certain winning move when he would see it 9/10 in any other occasion.
If something like this should actually be called "luck" is debatable.
 
As someone stated before, pokemon has no interaction on the opponents turn. No fear of trap cards etc...This makes the game stagnant and one dimensional. I also find the metagame to be quite boring.
 
Conzipe said:
I have actually been playing chess competitively for many years. Right now I'm only teaching other people how to play chess in my local club however.
There arguably is an amount of luck in chess.
For example you can be lucky that the opponent missed a certain winning move when he would see it 9/10 in any other occasion.
If something like this should actually be called "luck" is debatable.
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bagoly14 said:
As someone stated before, pokemon has no interaction on the opponents turn. No fear of trap cards etc...This makes the game stagnant and one dimensional. I also find the metagame to be quite boring.
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But there really is no luck in chess. You have the same pieces on the field as your opponent, and who wins is determined by who knows how to use them the most efficiently. (Sure there are blunders, but tactical mistakes exist in almost every game of a strategic nature.) The same can not be said for most card games. There's the issue of dead hands, prizing important stuff (like all four Catchers; that actually happened), not being able to get a hold of the right cards at the right time. I really like chess because you can exactly calculate twelve moves in advance if you know what you're doing. I think that's why the whole trap mechanic in Yugioh bothers me. Not that in any card game you can see past a few turns, but you can't even see through to the end of your turn. You say the lack of that makes the game stagnant, but I think it makes the game reasonably predictable as far as not having to worry about the wide array of things-unforeseen. I think that's why I still like Pokemon--there are a reasonable number of variables to calculate so that it's not overwhelming.
 
bagoly14 said:
As someone stated before, pokemon has no interaction on the opponents turn. No fear of trap cards etc...This makes the game stagnant and one dimensional. [/b]I also find the metagame to be quite boring.
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Tell that to the meta of E-Drags and Prophecy ONLY (before the recent restriction list)

Tbh, almost all your arguments against Pokemon can be thrown back to YGO. Sure there are trap cards in YGO, but it's still marred by the fact that YGO games do end up in just playing solitaire and killing your opponent outright.
 
Oh I am not saying YGO is better or more interesting, I just find it more complex. To be honest I think Magic is in just a whole different league than both YGO and Pokemon.
 
It's complexity is stemmed from poor card design. It's complexity is actually a bad thing. MTG is better but the rulings don't get THAT messed up because they actually have better long term planning.
 
It's been my experience that Magic players are often a little know-it-all-y (I'm sure there's a better way to put that), so for instance you get people saying "Wow, what a dumb move" and such when you play cards. Yu-Gi-Oh has way more of those types, in addition to the rather seedy other people who play. I'm sure there are great people who play too, that's just been my experience.

Pokémon is kind of the "just right" TCG. No one really collects Magic (as in every card from every set) -- there are people who collect older cards for profit. I will say, though, that TPC needs to learn from Wizards about how to run a card game (now, anyway). Their events are very professional, they have very clear cycles and transition periods, they are built for a wide audience (unlike the kids they're apparently going for here), and all of their expansions are planned. I'd like to see better pack configuration for limited formats, too. I liked drafting Magic.

Overall, Pokemon players are the best (yes, biased :p), but the game and the company need to work a lot on its image and its complexity. I think being able to play non-supporter trainers on your opponent's turn would be a great start. I know they started the card game to be like the video game, but something needs to be tweaked to make it a bit more fun.
 
They just need to restrict the Basic EXs. It's those cards that make the format stagnant. We used to have a card that can be used on the opponent's turn. It's called Power Spray.
 
All three are really a lot different and stay that way for a reason. Where i play there are mainly magic players all 20+ and a few pokemon player, my other league has lots of pokemon player and a few magic players. When I got back into TCG i thought YuGiOh had died or something. But really I know some pokemon players that first guy to sneer at them isn't gonna want to do that again. I personally haven't had any problems with that myself but I'm not worried about a YuGiOh player saying something to me haha
I think Pokemon also has a good story as far a the game and TV shows go. We actually haven't had to do as much changing a YuGiOh and we also don't ban cards or have 100000 different characters featured in the TCG. we have 600+ pokemon coming and thats it I think that shows that they have done a good job. i do agree that the TCG should be changed and i think it will because like said in this form, the pokemon game is made around it audience not to draw in more plyers
 
Riskbreakers said:
I also hear from people that there is still luck in chess. I'd hjave to read up on that again though.
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I'm not sure how anyone can say there is luck in chess (except when your opponent may make a misplay.... but that is in any game) since there is absolutely no randomness at all in the game. Just pure skill wins games.
 
The Pokemon TCG is still respected, it is still one of the bigger TCGs. Sadly, the popularity of the TCG, actually pokemon in general, has decreased significantly. Very young kids still buy cards, but the moments they turn 10, they sell all their cards for three euros, because Pokemon is for 'kids'. They might return to pokemon later on, though.

The main problem here might also be genwunnerism. The first sets are extremely repected, too the point of cult-status. The new sets are disrespected because they feature newer pokemon and because they look different from the earlier sets. Pokemon might be respected more in general if genwunnerism wasn't so big... I got scolded at in the train for playing pokemon black 2, simply because of it being a 5th gen game with more than the oiginal 151. luckily there are still many pokefans left, even in a country like The Netherlands, that respect both the game and TCG, though they may not play the later one themselves.

Something that might help, use the subtle, but effective art of indoctrination. When talking with genwunners, subtly, yet clearly, refer to the newer gens. Persuade them slowly into liking the newer Pokemon a bit more first, then try to interest them in the newer games, from that point on you might have cured their genwunnerism. It doesn't always work, but it sure does wonders when it does. Just stay positive and don't get angry at them. Keep laughing, just like Disney employees!
 
I replied to topics like this before, see my recent post on pokemon - are you more of a collector or player thread. So, this time I will just say what I fidn very odd. The pokemon franchise (in US, Canada, and Europe) is marketed at kids. However the plasma blast packs I just got, say on the pack wrapper "Recommended for players ages 10 and up."

So, why don't they market it for ages 10 and up???

Oh and I think Nintendo and TCPI do scholarships because, you are never too old to get a degree (or new degree). AND they don't want money greedy people to play, just solely for money prizes alone. Just my opinion, but that is the main reason Yugioh or magic players can be nasty. They are only about money and not the fun of the game. There are many great magic and yugi players that love the series itself far more then money, and are polite, but I am talking about the shady not-so-nice players.
 
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