signofzeta said:
I thought it was just Lightning Bolt spam with a ton of Red mana
Is Pokémon No Longer Respected as a Card Game?
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I thought it was just Lightning Bolt spam with a ton of Red mana
That's because MTG is greatly emphasizing Creature spells while de-emphasizing Instant, Sorcery, Enchantment, and Artifact Spells. It's because of this emphasis on Creatures that has lead to Aggro decks being the main decks played in Standard and Modern format in the last 5-6 years up to now over Control decks which IMO is hurting Magic overall cause there's no balance between Aggro and Control.
Back in the 90's up to now Creature Spells weren't nearly as powerful as they are right now as more decks were focused around Non-Creature Spells like for example Counterspell decks pretty much denied your opponent from playing anything on their turn and Reanimator decks which allowed you to "cheat" creatures into play without paying their mana costs. You also had decks based on Mana Burn and Land Destruction however Wizards deemed it too powerful.
Back in the 90's up to now Creature Spells weren't nearly as powerful as they are right now as more decks were focused around Non-Creature Spells like for example Counterspell decks pretty much denied your opponent from playing anything on their turn and Reanimator decks which allowed you to "cheat" creatures into play without paying their mana costs. You also had decks based on Mana Burn and Land Destruction however Wizards deemed it too powerful.
Honestly, with the way the YGO community have a tendency to act(not all people obviously), you could say YGO is looked down upon more than Pokemon.
Not hating on YGO as I am a fan(and I do play via DevPro and collect IRL) but it's the last game I would consider playing IRL if I had the time and money to play any game IRL. Again, not hating on it.
Not hating on YGO as I am a fan(and I do play via DevPro and collect IRL) but it's the last game I would consider playing IRL if I had the time and money to play any game IRL. Again, not hating on it.
Well obviously the Yu-gi-oh crowd has had some bad press as of late, but I used to be a Yu-gi-oh player myself, I stopped playing shortly into 5DS, the whole Synchro cards just took that magic away from me.
I started with Pokémon and have always collected, well on and off. I have no interest really in playing, because it's not as important in my life as it used to be. Trying to juggle, Work, College, Girlfriend and friends at the same time is near impossible. I am lucky to have an evening free, but I love sitting down and spending a few hours playing Pokémon video games.
Pokémon as a whole, has never been as big in the Western world as everyone assumed. The aimed audience is different with Pokémon, that's where it fails and succeeds at the same time.
It's hard to compare the 3 card games, because the 3 are all different. Magic was the first major card game, it's often played by older people. I can't see it surviving much longer.
I prefer Pokémon in general, because it was what I had from the age of 4.
I started with Pokémon and have always collected, well on and off. I have no interest really in playing, because it's not as important in my life as it used to be. Trying to juggle, Work, College, Girlfriend and friends at the same time is near impossible. I am lucky to have an evening free, but I love sitting down and spending a few hours playing Pokémon video games.
Pokémon as a whole, has never been as big in the Western world as everyone assumed. The aimed audience is different with Pokémon, that's where it fails and succeeds at the same time.
It's hard to compare the 3 card games, because the 3 are all different. Magic was the first major card game, it's often played by older people. I can't see it surviving much longer.
I prefer Pokémon in general, because it was what I had from the age of 4.
Just making a (maybe/kind of) irrelevant point, but magic is played by a lot more people under 21 years of age than over, based on the leagues that I have been to and the fact that I only personally know a handful of people older than that myself that play, while I have at least 30 friends (which is a term I am using loosely here) that play magic and are between 16 and 18 years of age. In regards to the pokemon tcg, as far as I know I was the only person from my old high school, which has 300 students as of now, that played, so in comparison to the magic fanbase it was quite a contrast. But yeah, basically magic is here to stay and pokemon may die off sometime in the near future (and I mean this as vaguely as possible, because it might be popular indefinitely, who am I to say?)
tl;dr - I think magic has a better chance of lasting than pokemon.
tl;dr - I think magic has a better chance of lasting than pokemon.
Saying that MTG would die out before Pokemon TCG is nonsense.
If WOTC made one boneheaded decision, MTG would still survive. They made a lot of risky moves in a lot of years, double face cards being one of them, and it turned out well for them. They know that they have an established fanbase that they can make these risky moves.
If TPCi made one boneheaded decision, Pokemon TCG would still survive, but will be hanging on a thread of life. If TPCi did a risky move, there might be a chance that the game would die outright. With all these changes going on, I don't know if people are overreacting, or if TPCi did really make boneheaded decisions to kill the game.
If WOTC made one boneheaded decision, MTG would still survive. They made a lot of risky moves in a lot of years, double face cards being one of them, and it turned out well for them. They know that they have an established fanbase that they can make these risky moves.
If TPCi made one boneheaded decision, Pokemon TCG would still survive, but will be hanging on a thread of life. If TPCi did a risky move, there might be a chance that the game would die outright. With all these changes going on, I don't know if people are overreacting, or if TPCi did really make boneheaded decisions to kill the game.
None of us have the facts about any of the card games, I am just basing it off what I've seen. Here in the UK, there is virtually no Pokémon card players, I have seen loads of MTG players.
When I was a bit younger, I went to loads of Card clubs, when I was playing Yu-gi-oh, and I have been to a few Card shops. Yu-gi-oh seems to be the most popular card game here in the UK. I haven't really seen any presence of Pokémon other than 1 club in London I have seen and only seen some adults play MTG. I think there is about 12-15 Pre releases per set in the whole of the UK each year. That's nothing. Pokémon died here long ago, I don't know what it's like in the US, since I haven't been there. The US & Canada, is keeping the English card game alive.
When I was a bit younger, I went to loads of Card clubs, when I was playing Yu-gi-oh, and I have been to a few Card shops. Yu-gi-oh seems to be the most popular card game here in the UK. I haven't really seen any presence of Pokémon other than 1 club in London I have seen and only seen some adults play MTG. I think there is about 12-15 Pre releases per set in the whole of the UK each year. That's nothing. Pokémon died here long ago, I don't know what it's like in the US, since I haven't been there. The US & Canada, is keeping the English card game alive.
I have no shame in playing at my age, but have been hassled over playing. My wife and I both enjoy the game and play with our boy who got us into it. The only reason it wouldn't be respected is because of how limited it's metagame is compared to most other card games.
TheTPCProductionz said:
It's basically the same in Canada too. There are a few cities that play Pokemon, and host tournaments other than leagues. For every store that hosts a league, it would be during a time when nobody has the time to attend, like a weekday or something to make room for MTG and Yugioh.
I am going to compare Kaijudo with Pokemon TCG, as I think the market ages are similar. WOTC has some of its staff actively attend some Kaijudo tournaments, and be a part of the community. That really helps in growing the game. Pokemon Organized play does not have a stable footing like Magic and Yugioh does, so TPCi better find a way to get involved with the community.
Perhaps it is no fault to TPCi that the game doesn't grow that much? Perhaps to many people, Pokemon TCG doesn't take a lot of skill to play compared to YGO and MTG. By skill, I mean, reading comprehension, because MTG cards and YGO cards do have a lot of text in them.
Out of 6 TCGs I've played, Pokemon TCG probably has the least amount of text in their cards, which is great for kids, but bad for people looking for a challenge. If you have someone like me who could learn the basic pokemon rules on the fly, but have trouble with YGO, and WoW TCG, then I don't think Pokemon TCG poses much of a challenge. I'd probably have trouble learning Kaijudo if it weren't for the fact that I already know how to play MTG, but let's say I don't know how to play any TCG out there, I'd probably learn how to play Pokemon TCG the quickest, and that ease of learning and understanding is probably why most players don't play the game, because they see Pokemon TCG as some sort of TCG for sissies. Basically saying, "YGO, MTG, or whatnot is cooler because I had to learn the rules of the game".
Another reason is that older people tend to get bored of TCGs that are kid friendly, or beginner friendly. I have tendencies to be bored of those MTG decks made for beginners. So the lack of Pokemon TCG players, becasue as we all know, local game stores are usually dominated by adults who have money to spend, would rather play a game that is less boring. Again with the whole, Pokemon TCG doesn't pose much of a mental challenge to these people. You'd probably have to find someone who has the patience to play a game with lack of challenge in order to get a person playing Pokemon TCG.
If I were to compare Pokemon TCG with MTG, Pokemon TCG would be MTG without instants. The lack of any interaction from you, during your opponents turn, such as playing trainer cards during your opponent's turn really doesn't attract a lot of players either.
Basically saying, the reason why MTG and YGO are more popular than Pokemon TCG is it's more advanced gameplay.
A big part of the TCG for me is the collecting of cards that I love, and that often comes from my love of the Pokemon themselves that comes from the games. Do they even have holographic Magic cards?
I don't think I could ever get into another card game. One of the main reasons I love the Pokemon TCG is because... Well, it's Pokemon, and I love Pokemon. It's not quite as deep as the (video) games, but it is a card game that can't have algorithms and behind-the-scenes mechanics. Maybe I'm still a little kid on the inside, but I don't think another TCG could ever bring me the sheer joy I get when I think about the Pokemon TCG. It really bugs me how cynical some people can be about other games being "more complex". If it's not complex enough for you, make it complex enough for you. Build a deck that takes a lot of strategy to play. The Pokemon TCG can be as complex as you want it to be, but simple enough where it doesn't get confusing. It's just the perfect balance to me, but I'm biased, since I'll love Pokemon no matter what.
I don't think I could ever get into another card game. One of the main reasons I love the Pokemon TCG is because... Well, it's Pokemon, and I love Pokemon. It's not quite as deep as the (video) games, but it is a card game that can't have algorithms and behind-the-scenes mechanics. Maybe I'm still a little kid on the inside, but I don't think another TCG could ever bring me the sheer joy I get when I think about the Pokemon TCG. It really bugs me how cynical some people can be about other games being "more complex". If it's not complex enough for you, make it complex enough for you. Build a deck that takes a lot of strategy to play. The Pokemon TCG can be as complex as you want it to be, but simple enough where it doesn't get confusing. It's just the perfect balance to me, but I'm biased, since I'll love Pokemon no matter what.
I don't really see the praise for a poorly designed game like YGO though. MTG is probably the most balanced card game there despite it being also having the "broken cards" problem. But I'd say if I were a TCG player, I'd prefer Pokemon over YGO because Pokemon games actually last 10 turns unlike YGO where it's just at four to five turns due to the bad card design.
Wordy text making the game "complex" is an illusion. Pokemon's only main fault is the lack of player interaction but the games are kinda good enough to at least make things interesting.
Bottom line: I get into trouble here for always bashing the Pokemon format and how weird it is lately, but I'll respect a Pokemon player and an MTG player first before respecting a YGO player.
Wordy text making the game "complex" is an illusion. Pokemon's only main fault is the lack of player interaction but the games are kinda good enough to at least make things interesting.
Bottom line: I get into trouble here for always bashing the Pokemon format and how weird it is lately, but I'll respect a Pokemon player and an MTG player first before respecting a YGO player.
I do wish, though that Pokémon would create more products. For instance, the Yu-gi-oh structure decks are generally pretty good, get 3 of them add some high end stuff and you've got a decent deck. The Pokémon theme decks are useless, they release crappy decks each set. You get a few good cards in, but nothing worth spending £10 on.
I think the Elite trainer boxes were a great idea, problem is they are so darn expensive in the UK. I checked prices in America, they are almost double here.
Pokémon is too predictable with what they market.
Also Pokémon is based off a set number of characters, each set is similar. Yu-gi-oh and MTG isn't.
I think the Elite trainer boxes were a great idea, problem is they are so darn expensive in the UK. I checked prices in America, they are almost double here.
Pokémon is too predictable with what they market.
Also Pokémon is based off a set number of characters, each set is similar. Yu-gi-oh and MTG isn't.
Pokemon and MTG have variety in decks which I respect. YGO doesn't. Well they started having some after the recent banlist.
But yes, Pokemon Starter Decks are bad. I recommend newbies to learn from veterans rather than learn from those precons.
But yes, Pokemon Starter Decks are bad. I recommend newbies to learn from veterans rather than learn from those precons.
Riskbreakers said:
I'm just saying what I think what people think about Pokemon TCG being not wordy enough, and not "complex".
Frost Mage said:Do they even have holographic Magic cards?
They had it since Urza's Legacy, which was released in 1999. The issue isn't about Pokemon TCG not being loved in general, but is more like how when you go to game stores, more MTG and YGO events are held over Pokemon TCG events, and this has to do with how many people attend these events. If I were a game store owner, and only a handful of people played Pokemon, while tons of people play MTG or YGO, I wouldn't even set aside a day for Pokemon events.
TheTPCProductionz said:
I am a huge precon collector for MTG, YGO, and Pokemon, and I sometimes collect precons from Cardfight Vanguard and Kaijudo, only if I feel like it. So comparing precons to all 3 games, with this template:
Magic
okemon:YugiohIntro Pack (formerly thene deck):Theme Deck:Starter Deck These decks are the decks where everybody tells new players not to buy.
Duel Decks:???:??? Basically 2 decks designed to face against each other.
Event Decks:???:Structure deck? Competitive decks. Unsure if Structure decks are competitive if you only buy one though.
Casual variant deck:???:??? A different way to play the game.
Core game (defunct):Trainer kit:??? 2 player starter set that gives you step by step instructions on how to play the game.
World champ decks (defunct):World champ decks:??? Replica decks from the world championships.
Premium Deck Series (defunct):Red Genesect Collection (don't know if it is going to be a yearly product):??? (Seems that the Duelist Sets from Japan are going to be 100% foil) Every card in these decks are foil, or in Pokemon terms, holo.
Looking at this, it seems that Pokemon TCG has the least precon types that are released annually. Even so, I wished they had vs decks as well, but whatever, I don't really care.
Do you also notice that every single pokemon precon, other than world champ decks and trainer kits have pokemon only from one set? Look at the red genesect collection. Was there a reason as to why every single pokemon in that deck has to be from Plasma Blast?
It really doesn't help that every year we see 10+ box sets that come with boosters and a promo that doesn't even help the game. A product that helps the game would definitely include energy in it, and an instruction booklet. Perhaps a box set that tells of a variant way of playing Pokemon TCG? In the games, there are 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, team, or rotation battles. Why can't it be done in Pokemon TCG? Probably another reason some people prefer MTG, YGO, Cardfight Vanguard, and Kaijudo over Pokemon, the fact that you can attack with multiple creatures in your turn, something that doesn't exist with Pokemon TCG, but considering there are 3 vs 3 battles in the games, it doesn't hurt to implement a 3 vs 3 format in the TCG. The bench size would just be reduced to 3 instead of 5.
Well I do not know about others but for me, the meta has driven me away from the game. I think the game has gotten to the point where you HAVE to spend hundreds of dollars each set so you can make a deck that will compete with the meta. For instance Gen/Vir that just came out, it easily stomps almost every deck. I have been thinking about quitting tcg for this reason. I am tired or every set bringing out a new xxxHP/x energy for x damge with x amount of spread. I think the game is getting out of hand and needs to be brought back to the 'simplicity' it used to be. I have for sure lost respect for the game because all it is; is whoever has the most amount of money every set release. (This is all just my opinion)
Are you kidding me? Genesect stomps nothing and by most is considered to be crappy hype. Let's face it, a Keldeo blastoise deck made top 2 at the KO and it has been highly regarded as the easiest matchu for genesect. It isn't good and you have a terrible view of spending hundreds of dollars each set. Unless you buy a case and more it is easy to build a cheap TDK build for under 75 bucks. Do your research before you start calling BDIF's and naming prices
Pokemon is relatively cheaper compared to both MTG and YGO. Only thing cheaper than Pokemon would be Cardfight!! Vanguard.
My reasoning as to why pokemon seems more simple and limited compared to other TCGs is because it is not just a card game, it is an entire franchise, and TPCI is trying for some consistency between products. YGO doesn't have video games, MTG doesn't have its own anime. Pokemon has video games, books, anime, tcg, and a bunch of other assorted merchandise.
MTG, although more complicated to me in gameplay, is more fun than the pokemon tcg. However, collecting pokemon (which is what I do know) is much more probable than MTG. I can not speak for the other TCGs, as none of them ever interested me. All of my friends in my grade stopped playing/collecting a few years ago, but many other friends from ages approx. 10-20 play MTG, so I started playing that casually.
As to my primary pokemon activity:
Late ex-DPt era: pokemon tcg
HGSS era: video games
BW-on: collecting
So, I have not competitively played the pokemon tcg for a few years now, and am actually kind of glad due to the overpowered basics and derpy trainers.
MTG, although more complicated to me in gameplay, is more fun than the pokemon tcg. However, collecting pokemon (which is what I do know) is much more probable than MTG. I can not speak for the other TCGs, as none of them ever interested me. All of my friends in my grade stopped playing/collecting a few years ago, but many other friends from ages approx. 10-20 play MTG, so I started playing that casually.
As to my primary pokemon activity:
Late ex-DPt era: pokemon tcg
HGSS era: video games
BW-on: collecting
So, I have not competitively played the pokemon tcg for a few years now, and am actually kind of glad due to the overpowered basics and derpy trainers.