Is Pokémon No Longer Respected as a Card Game?
- Thread starter Podote
- Start date
Has YuGiOh ever pulled off cute/cool like Pokemon has? The answer is no.Podote said:
That's really stupid whoever said that to you. Yes, Pokemon is still marketed as a kids card game, but I can tell you that at 8-10 years old, I never touched the actual playing of the cards, just the collecting. It takes some time to learn, not a lot of time, but I didn't feel like learning I guess, since no one I knew really played either. I collected YuGiOh cards for some time, along with Pokemon cards, and really, YuGiOh cards could never compare to Pokemon cards. YuGiOh is known (at least by me) for its over-designed characters, and I think that's what it comes down to.
Just look at Worlds. Game Freak and Nintendo know that Pokemon is for all ages, and that the TCG is truly more popular with players in their early teen years, but they probably figure it this way: Why change what has been selling so well for so long? Older players will still buy them, younger players will still buy them, if the occasional narrow-minded person calls you lame for playing the TCG, who cares?
DNA said:
You could, you know, enjoy 3 card games.
I haven't gotten around to play Kaijudo and Cardfight Vanguard with anyone, and I do have some of the precon decks. I also thought WoW TCG was a contender as the fourth major TCG out there, but alas, it was never meant to be.
Maybe it is the fact that I have only did intro pack vs intro pack battles with MTG that I find it easy, but even so, I played that game the longest so it comes natural to me, while YGO is newer to me. Pokemon TCG being complicated just means that it is too complicated for their highly evolved brain. I can easily learn the Pokemon TCG the quickest, faster than I learned MTG.
I find that both YGO and MTG takes skill to play. I played YGO online, and YGO on the 360, and I always lose in those games. I play MTG with some people and I always lost there, but with Pokemon TCG, it seems I have a chance of winning, because that game seems to be highly dictated by the luck of the draw, and the cards in your deck rather than skill. The objective in Pokemon TCG is to get your ace out as fast as possible, and there is no interaction when it is your opponent's turn, unlike in YGO where there are trap cards, and MTG where you can play instant spells. I just wish that Pokemon TCG had trainer cards that you could play during your opponent's turn, or as a response to the attack, such as this attack does less damage, or this pokemon is poisoned, sort of like a surprise.
The problem with Pokemon TCG is that it is marketed as a children's card game, and it isn't trying hard enough to get new players. People grow older, so it is catering to the same audience who is only going to get older and older, but at the same time, trying to cater to the children who think that Pokemon TCG is a TCG for the unintelligent. I mean, I had this same feeling back before I bought my first Pokemon and Yugioh pack. I was like, "MTG is so for the big boys. YGO and Pokemon are so for noobs."
Another way to market this as a game is to include energy in more products. It isn't the YGO and MTG players refusing to play, it is also the Pokemon fanbase trying to shoo away potential new players. Here is the story. In some other forum, before the days of ETB, I asked for more products that contained energy, because the only way to get them was via theme decks, and there wasn't a product out there that contained all 8 in one package. I was totally basically shooed away with this response "I can do X, therefore you can do X". No I can't. At that time, I don't have enough time to go to leagues even once, and when I did manage to go check out that far off place with energies, they have a pitiful metal selection. Secondly, buying online. It would kind of be stupid to attract new players by saying, "hey, here's our product, but you have to buy online to get the rest". What? YGO, MTG, WoW TCG, CF Vanguard, and Kaijudo don't do that, and they expect newcomers to buy energy that has been touched by someone else, aka slightly played and handled? Outrageous. It is a good thing the ETB exists now.
About the ETB. I hear because the ETB has the word "Elite" in its name, therefore there shouldn't be energy in it. *Facepalm*. The ETB is a great product to make non elite players elite. That is what it does. Considering that the only other way to get a decent collection of energy so you can build any deck is to buy theme decks, and metal being hard to come by, as well as the new fairy energies. Energies don't magically appear in the market, so the ETB is a great way to distribute them. If the ETB didn't have energies, you'd have newcomers who won't play, because there aren't the tools to play the game.
Another argument that is the dumbest thing I ever heard is "there shouldn't be energy in product Y because I have way to many". So these people are going to prevent others from gaining a sizable energy collection of their own just because these people who have a large energy collection can't find ways to donate or get rid of them? Ridiculous. MTG players know what to do with extra basic lands in their collection, but yet PTCG players are stumped when it comes to extra energy in their collection. Another thing that is funny is that they get disappointed when they see energy cards in sets and packs, but yet, they can't give it away for free because they want a return on it? So basically saying, when they get it, they think it is useless junk and should cost next to nothing, and then when they give it away, they think it costs something? At least that is how I see things. To me, Energy costs nothing, and will never cost anything, maybe for the few cents for the cardboard, other than that, if Energy is included any product, the price won't go up, and it will never. Probably go up by $1 for every 20 energy added to the product.
People who think energy cards are garbage, like you know, when you pull one energy card in a pack, are those people who don't realize that Pokemon TCG is a game.
In general, I don't think that the Pokemon TCG has ever been all that popular as a game. Back when I was a kid, none of my friends who had Pokemon cards liked playing the actual game. Which sucked, because I was interested in playing the game. Fortunately there was that Gameboy game, which allowed me to play a little bit.
It wasn't until I was 12 that I made a friend who actually played, but by that time my interest in Pokemon was waning, so I didn't end up playing much.
I recently started collecting cards again, but being an adult in the Navy... my chances of finding somebody to play against are virtually zero. Even the people on my ship who still play the Pokemon videogames and also play other TCGs such as Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh have no interest in picking up the Pokemon TCG. But to be honest, I'm not all that interested in playing the TCG either. I don't really like the direction the game has taken in recent years.
It wasn't until I was 12 that I made a friend who actually played, but by that time my interest in Pokemon was waning, so I didn't end up playing much.
I recently started collecting cards again, but being an adult in the Navy... my chances of finding somebody to play against are virtually zero. Even the people on my ship who still play the Pokemon videogames and also play other TCGs such as Magic and Yu-Gi-Oh have no interest in picking up the Pokemon TCG. But to be honest, I'm not all that interested in playing the TCG either. I don't really like the direction the game has taken in recent years.
I get grief for playing Pokémon locally, but no more than any other player of any other game. I mean, ultimately we're all spending our money on pieces of cardboard to set them down in a sequence that makes us the winner. I wouldn't sweat a couple snide comments from other card players. Though, I am surprised that happened at an anime convention.
Podote said:
Not to me. :[
DNA said:
Sure you can enjoy more than one card game. I wasn't trying to imply that it's either Yu-Gi-Oh or Pokemon for people. I've just always had bad experiences with Yu-Gi-Oh butting in.
My most memorable one was when the original base/neo sets of Pokemon cards were still all the rage, me and my friends would just collect and trade and have fun. Then one day YGO hits the fan and I don't think my friends ever touched a Pokemon card again, and I was left in the dust. To me, it feels like YGO was a part of the reason why people think Pokemon "died" years ago. YGO was something new and cool that everyone just switched over to, and suddenly Pokemon seemed lame and old to the general public. It was rare for me to find anyone that still cared about the cards after the YGO epidemic.
I even tried to get into YGO, but I just couldnt. The over designed monsters and the show themed entirely around cards just didn't appeal to me. The entire reason I like Pokemon is because they are basically animals that you bond with that have their own personalities, not just tools used for fighting.
Now I'm really not trying to bash Yu-Gi-Oh. I'm just explaining why I have my reasons for holding a grudge against it. o-o What happens in my little local area probably doesn't compare to whatever happens in any other place. Personal opinions is the key word here.
I would just like to ask. Since when are nerds allowed to ridicule other nerds?... I don't make fun of Yu-Gi-Oh, and at my league, believe it or not, the YGO players actually occasionally come over and watch some of our matches.
It takes respect to give respect, if they aren't being nice to you, there is no reason for you to talk to them. If they are, maybe those are the kinds of people you want to surround yourself with (whether they play YGO or not lol)
It takes respect to give respect, if they aren't being nice to you, there is no reason for you to talk to them. If they are, maybe those are the kinds of people you want to surround yourself with (whether they play YGO or not lol)
The main skill in YGO is your bank account. Call me insane but I don't find YGO's tutoring and special summoning combos for an OTK as a "skill". I call it solitaire which is completely different XD.
No offense to the game though and to its players since our YGO community is composed of such nice people. Our Pokemon community is also nice save for a guy or two. Our Vanguard community is nice but full of stupid people at times. Point is, you only have the right to bash a game due to its structure and not due to its age demographic.
No offense to the game though and to its players since our YGO community is composed of such nice people. Our Pokemon community is also nice save for a guy or two. Our Vanguard community is nice but full of stupid people at times. Point is, you only have the right to bash a game due to its structure and not due to its age demographic.
Well hey, the last YGO World Championship featured a whopping TWO deck types during the entire course of the tournament compared to the different variants seen during Pokemon Worlds. Budget competitive decks in Pokemon also exist due to the tin cans (Darkrai, Plasma, BlastoiseKeldeo)
AlexanderTheAwesome said:
I can't tell if you were referring to my post or not but just for the record (and this goes to anyone) I wasn't and am not ridiculing anyone for playing YGO. I'm not really even making fun of it. o-o
My friends were never mean to me because I still played Pokemon, and I was never mean to them for jumping on the YGO bandwagon and abandoning Pokemon. It was just upsetting, that's all. And I have every right to voice the personal experiences I had and say why I don't like YGO (it isn't just because everyone I knew left Pokemon for it.)
Most of my friends now actually play YGO and yes I agree that their community is overall fairly nice. I just have a grudge against the franchise as a whole, not the community in it. And it isn't even a completely serious grudge, its just silly.
EDIT: Yeah I just realized you were referring to the topic post and not me, MYY BAAAAD. ^^; This post still stands for anyone else though that thinks I have something against the YGO community....
Well, yeah. People jumped on the Pokemon bandwagon too back in the late 90's. All bandwagon means is a thing that has suddenly gotten really popular that everyone is getting into. Nothing wrong with the word bandwagon.
I'm really not trying to get on anyone's bad side here. The key thing is that these are purely all of my opinions, I'm not trying to announce that everything I said is fact.
I'm really not trying to get on anyone's bad side here. The key thing is that these are purely all of my opinions, I'm not trying to announce that everything I said is fact.
Riskbreakers said:
The main skill of Yu-Gi-Oh! is your bank account unless you play it online via Dueling Network where your digital cards are free of charge with no download required. But as you've laid it out, Yu-Gi-Oh!'s tutoring and special summoning combos for an OTK as a game of Solitaire is alot like broken combo decks in Magic that can go off on Turn 4 (Splinter Twin/Deceiver Exarch for example) or later. It's just that Yu-Gi-Oh! does it much worse than Magic due to the games' speed and power level being alot closer to Legacy than Vintage in Magic.
Magic did a much better job keeping infinite creature combos in check by printing cards like Gideon Jura, Lightmine Field, and even Hundred-Handed One in Theros which in Magic Online If you were to try to generate infinite creatures you were only allowed to cap up to 100 creatures instead for Hundred-Handed One to block all at once in one combat phase when it gains Monstrosity. But as for Yu-Gi-Oh! while I respect the community for it since I was once a Yu-Gi-Oh! player before retiring from it in 2004, the failure of them to realize that they're still playing a broken game is very depressing although playing it for the sake of nostalgia is understandable as long as they stick to Casual over Competitive.
I definitely wouldn't use the words 'confusing' or 'complicated' to describe this card game. In fact, it's really quite the opposite. You can hand someone a starter deck or, heck, even a metagame deck like Plasma or Blastoise, tell them the rules and some general tips (get Blastoise out and attach Energy to your big guys, attack early with Plasma, etc.) and they'll get the hang of it really quickly. There's never been a better time to get started into the game with the way the cards are designed and the game is played right now. In this regard, I agree a lot with DNA's first post.
Generally from what I've found, most people look down on Pokemon if they don't play it. It's generally considered a kid's game and it still kinda is. It sounds like the people that were making fun of you guys is pretty standard in the game and are pretty much douchebags for doing so (pardon my french). I've also found that Magic is generally the bigger game just because I've seen more adults playing it, but that sort of thing is most likely more area specific.
dmaster out.
Generally from what I've found, most people look down on Pokemon if they don't play it. It's generally considered a kid's game and it still kinda is. It sounds like the people that were making fun of you guys is pretty standard in the game and are pretty much douchebags for doing so (pardon my french). I've also found that Magic is generally the bigger game just because I've seen more adults playing it, but that sort of thing is most likely more area specific.
dmaster out.
From the beginning (1998), as I recall, Pokémon was viewed more (and marketed seemingly) as a kid game... Unless you actually played (or have someone explain the game in detail), many "gamers" did/do not realize how in-depth and competitive the game actually is. I know quite a few players (young adults now) when they were in middle and high school who did not let their friends know that the played Pokémon. Back then, it wasn't viewed as "cool." But that stigma changed as the number of leagues and players increased over time.
For those who are informed, Pokémon definitely is respected and it seems that the player base continues to grow from year to year based upon the premier tournament event attendance. There are quite a few Yugioh players that have now converted to Pokémon. I've seen less Magic players convert.
For those who are informed, Pokémon definitely is respected and it seems that the player base continues to grow from year to year based upon the premier tournament event attendance. There are quite a few Yugioh players that have now converted to Pokémon. I've seen less Magic players convert.