Is the United States going to Default on it's own Debt?

Hmm, interesting way of explaining things. A couple points I'd like to make clear first:

- Clinton got into presidency with a growing and booming economy. Because of that, he was able to tone down spending in order to clear debt that Reagan had piled up.
- Along Clinton's second term, he was basically poking and pushing OPEC for oil production, essentially creating demand leading into a price increase. One article went so far as to suggest that "the oil sales helped Saddam Hussein re-arm his military with a brand new Chinese-built air defense system," something that became Bush's war, not Clinton's.
- In any case, Bush had nothing to do with the rising of oil prices, which was a component in the recession that would begin around 2001.
- The housing bubble that would also cause a huge economy crash in 2008 was also not caused by any action of the Bush family. I suppose if they were to see any fault, it would be for doing nothing.
- The Iraq war more or less did cost the US quite a bit, yet had Hussein continued his reign, the sheer monoply over oil could have been just as devastating. Bush simply caused the financial cost to go to the govenment, rather than all the nations relying on oil.

So exactly how much fault can you blame Bush for screwing the economy up?
 
Zyflair said:
So exactly how much fault can you blame Bush for screwing the economy up?
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No single person or administration can be blamed solely for screwing up the economy as it was a mixed bag of issues. However, I think a strong argument can be made that the economy is worse off than it otherwise would have been directly due to the bush administration.

The Bush administration did three major things that helped to put us in the predicament we are in:

1) The Bush Tax Cuts. These were meant to be a one time boost to the economy, but have ended up a quasi-permanent addition to the tax code. I've yet to see any reliable evidence that cutting taxes on the rich improves the economy or creates jobs, and it would seem the last 8 years were strong evidence to the contrary.

2) Deregulation. The Bush admin pursued a policy of deregulating business in many sectors. If you are looking for specifics you might want to look into the Commodity Futures Modernization Act signed into law by bush in 2000. This act put into law many practices that would help lead to the financial crisis in 2008.

3) The Wars. You may be tired of hearing it and you may think that Hussein would have cost the world economy more being in power than not, but the fact of the matter is the wars in afghanistan and iraq have been extremely costly. Afghanistan made some sense in the aftermath of 9/11, but Iraq seems to have been some sidejob to get rid of a dictator we didn't like. Regardless these wars have cost us trillions of dollars, international political capital, and the lives of thousands of american soldiers.
 
Turns out I was wrong, the U.S. Credit Rating has been officially downgraded from AAA to AA+ though it was no surprise really. If I remember correctly back in 2001 when Japan was going through Recession their Credit Rating was downgraded and picked back up again so the same thing could happen in the U.S. If we get our acts straight.
 
Zyfflair: I told you I had problems explaining my thoughts. If it were not for the above posts I would still have trouble explaining right now what has happened. Right now we are on the verge of a downgrade to AA status and it was announced about 5 hours ago on the news that it could happen in a few days. If something is not done fast we could loose our AAA status and that means things will go higher loans will be harder to get and there is a chance that SSI could be lost but they are doing everything they can to keep it where it is now. Also if you check at CNN.com you will find archives of what Bush and Clinton were doing during their terms in office. Also the 9/11 attacks in 01 was just the tip of the iceberg before the economy crashed. The night before the attacks Bin Laddin and Bush had dinner and talked over their plan on how to take down the towers the next day. That was just the beginning. All the major news corps have all this info as well. Sorry I just could not explain things man. It's partly my fault because I don't explain well when I type.:(
 
Didn't you read what I said earlier xxashxx, our credit rating already got downgraded. Gee I wonder why when most of the members in Congress were acting like spoiled children not getting what they wanted when they could've acted their age and worked this out together as a TEAM and thought more about the people of this country instead of their good for nothing idealogies, shame on them I say... >_>

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/SampP-downgrades-US-credit-apf-2107320979.html

150 years ago Abraham Lincoln once said, "A House Divided Against Itself Cannot Stand". What does that say about our Government right now? Our Great Grandparents gave us this amazing inheritance to this country, to have us pass down the torch from generation to generation, to build for a better tomorrow. Why aren't we doing any of that, are we just going to throw everything that's been given to us away to China?

I say no and If you're an American and you deeply love this country for everything it's done for you, your friends, and your family then you should let the US Government know how much you care for this country. Write or e-mail to your Congressman or Congresswoman, spread the word! Let them know how you feel, go on C-Span or something...
 
@xxashxx - CNN is biased liberally. I try not to use their news as much as possible.


NarcoticHobo said:
No single person or administration can be blamed solely for screwing up the economy as it was a mixed bag of issues. However, I think a strong argument can be made that the economy is worse off than it otherwise would have been directly due to the bush administration.

The Bush administration did three major things that helped to put us in the predicament we are in:

1) The Bush Tax Cuts. These were meant to be a one time boost to the economy, but have ended up a quasi-permanent addition to the tax code. I've yet to see any reliable evidence that cutting taxes on the rich improves the economy or creates jobs, and it would seem the last 8 years were strong evidence to the contrary. [Zyflair: To add onto your point, Bush even thinks that the tax cuts he made were good in the long run even after he got out of office.]

2) Deregulation. The Bush admin pursued a policy of deregulating business in many sectors. If you are looking for specifics you might want to look into the Commodity Futures Modernization Act signed into law by bush in 2000. This act put into law many practices that would help lead to the financial crisis in 2008.

3) The Wars. You may be tired of hearing it and you may think that Hussein would have cost the world economy more being in power than not, but the fact of the matter is the wars in afghanistan and iraq have been extremely costly. Afghanistan made some sense in the aftermath of 9/11, but Iraq seems to have been some sidejob to get rid of a dictator we didn't like. Regardless these wars have cost us trillions of dollars, international political capital, and the lives of thousands of american soldiers.
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Thank you! Someone finally pointed out the actual problems in the administration.
I'm done playing devil's advocate now. ;3
 
Zyflair, what news do you watch then? All news is in someway biased (particularly Fox). Also, to those who are talking about the US credit rating, it has only been downgraded by one group, Standard and Poor. In the eyes of the other 2 groups, we are still AAA.
 
And S&P even made an error, leaving a mark on their reputation.

It's obvious media is biased, so I try to mix as much as possible, I do tend to fancy NBC, even though they tend to show liberal bias as well. CNN somehow doesn't fit my taste, especially after seeing a coverage they did that I knew was horribly skewed and misinformed.
 
I do prefer NBC as well. And I truly don't know if S&P made the right choice. I think that with hard work and cooperation, the US government can make them regret doing this.
 
If anything, the S&P judgment should serve as a wakeup call for the US Government. Teh fact that they nonchalantly admit their $2 trillion dollar mistake and then retained their final decision by calling the US out with their inability to get their fiscal problems out of the way easily is more like an indication that the debt debate made America seem untrustworthy, split, and internally troublesome.

The fun news? The public debt is nothing to Social Security and Medicare: by 2010 estimations, we're short by about $70 trillion dollars in funding.
 
S&P made a 2 trillion dollar error. That is why we are at an AA+ rating rather than a AAA rating. Most of us pay attention to CNN and ABC NBC and CBS for the most accurate news on the politics related news because FOX is a solely republican station and are so full of themselves that most of everything they say or comes out is a lie. You only get about 30% legit news on FOX. Forget FOX and pick a better station. NBC is somewhat republican too but not in the same fashion as FOX though. You will get the best news from ABC and CNN as they have the most accurate and update news on the planet. We we downgraded as of 11 PM last night. CS#: They were in talks of a downgrade when you last posted yesterday but had not been official until late last night. I did not see your posts until just a bit ago man. You guys must understand that I may not be on here much during the day so my posts might seem a bit repetitive when I post but when I get an official news updates during the day I post it when I have heard it for the first time + all the stuff that lead up to this point also. If you guys ever get your hands on the book about the Bush family which we have you will see the secrets that were never told in the news and you will see how republicans operate and how they twist things that are lies. Republicans lie like rugs and that is so true.:)
 
I would appreciate if you stop the Republican lying nonsense. Democrats have their fair share of scandals and corruption. You're practically inviting a flame war but no one around is as devoted as you to do so.

xxashxx said:
S&P made a 2 trillion dollar error. That is why we are at an AA+ rating rather than a AAA rating.
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Totally wrong. S&P admitted to the mistake and simply changed reasons. On economic terms, they would possibly consider us to be at AAA once they redo the math, but they used our political record to justify the AA+ rating.

Also, CNN? Accurate? Hah! CNN made so many mistakes as news that even Wikipedia documented their bias: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies
 
xxashxx, drop it. Republicans are fine. So quit bashin them. FOX news is a straight up news station. They don't twist stories at all. And scandels, really? Democrats have their fair share of scandels and failures too. I could make a long post of why President Obama is ruining the country too, but I won't because i'm not risking political arguement that could get to this level. Knock it off, last warning.
 
PDC, no. Fox is in no way, in my opinion, a straight up news station. Their viewers tend to be some of the most informed out of all the news stations due to Fox being so far to the right with their beliefs.

And as to you, xxashxx, I am liberal and supporting of the Democratic cause, but am still willing to respect other's opinions, but you sir, need to take a step back and cool it. Just because you don't like them or their way of thinking gives you no right to bash them like that!
 
Muddy68 said:
PDC, no. Fox is in no way, in my opinion, a straight up news station. Their viewers tend to be some of the most informed out of all the news stations due to Fox being so far to the right with their beliefs.

And as to you, xxashxx, I am liberal and supporting of the Democratic cause, but am still willing to respect other's opinions, but you sir, need to take a step back and cool it. Just because you don't like them or their way of thinking gives you no right to bash them like that!
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Man you and always seem to be on the same page here man. If it were not for you I don't know what I would do. Anyway. We could see worse downgrades in the futyre now if the U.S. does not clean up it's act and clean up the debt before the next debt ceiling rolls around. If it is not cleared up we could loose alot more than we already have lost. Not good for us right now.:) Edit sorry man just all I am saying is that FOX is one of the worst out their compared to the other stations. I was not bashing. I was stating a fact. There is a difference man. Sorry if you guys took it seriously.:(
 
The word worst cannot be used in a fact. That is called an opinion, and just because it is yours, it is NOT fact. If something/someone doesn't support your views that you can't even support, it doesn't mean that it is a terrible thing that is automatically wrong. You were NOT stating a fact, you were stating an opinion.

Please, I'm begging, give one reason besides that FOX supports the Republican side, why it is "worse" than the other news stations. Or, tell me one news station that is not biased. Please stop stating things that you cannot support, and please stop calling them facts.
 
I should say it is not the best but the least best of the loot. The top 3 are ABC NBC and CBS. No harsh feelings everyone but the top 3 have more accurate up to date news. Please don't take this as bashing. FOX is not the greatest network out there. If I go into detail why I would be breaking the rules. There are a few people I know that would agree with me however so I will stop before I get in to deep. See ya. I am now done. There is nothing else to say.:(
 
Ty W said:
Please, I'm begging, give one reason besides that FOX supports the Republican side, why it is "worse" than the other news stations.
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You can find this anywhere online if you just go looking for it why it is "worse" than the other news stations. However, FOX News is not a news network, it is a propaganda outlet used to support an outrageous type conservative ideology that has become more and more threatened as society in our country, even the western world, has progressed into higher awareness of the relationship between us, our planet, and our fellow man. It has been proven time and time again that this organization constantly misinforms and misleads its audience in order to help support its ideology. What that ideology is obvious to those who criticize the network, but not to those who follow it. They will simply blast any criticism by any person or another networks by calling it 'mainstream liberal media bias', a typical 'us against them' mentality that is one of the key principals of this ideology. Remember, there is always an enemy -and this propaganda network will always find a new one for you to be threatened by. They also have all the answers to dealing with those threats, and so do the people they promote to you. It is brainwashing at the simplest level, and people sit there day after day subjecting themselves to it until their politics and ideology shape their reality. It should be the other way around.
 
It is common knowledge Fox News has a conservative bias. They do have liberals on Fox, but for the most part they lean right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_Channel#Assertions_of_conservative_bias

I am *this close* to locking this thread. Support your arguments, don't just throw out accusations. Say "I believe this because *facts/research + tell your opinion/story here*" Some of what I see here is just blind criticism and straight up hate. If you cannot discuss things civilly without going over the top or support your argument then please don't post here. You can't just shut down and say "Well this one person screwed us! I hate him/her!" That leaves everyone else shaking their head and/or asking "Why?"
 
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