Never trust indies. All that need to be said.
Finished Mafia 53: Twilight's Kingdom
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Yeah, that is literaly all you have against me.
"Never trust indies" - I have no way to do anything against lynch based on that sentence, so there is no need to defend.
"Never trust indies" - I have no way to do anything against lynch based on that sentence, so there is no need to defend.
Let's be honest.
None of you thinks I'm mafia.
Only few of you thinks I can be harmful to town after what just happened.
None of you votes me cause of theirs reads.
All of that lynch is based on "Never trust indies" and nothing more.
Even if I would be beneficial, even if that role is provable, even tho you have my claim...
You are not gonna care about.
That's why this lynch is on spot wrong.
You don't even care what I say here.
None of you thinks I'm mafia.
Only few of you thinks I can be harmful to town after what just happened.
None of you votes me cause of theirs reads.
All of that lynch is based on "Never trust indies" and nothing more.
Even if I would be beneficial, even if that role is provable, even tho you have my claim...
You are not gonna care about.
That's why this lynch is on spot wrong.
You don't even care what I say here.
I am not that experienced but- I think you took the greater risk. As an indie you are faced with two options: claim and hope Mafia won’t kill you based on the fact you are not town and also hope town would not lynch you, OR pretend you are town, play safe and hope not to be lynched for scummy posts or get killed by Mafia. The latter is the safer way imo, thus why I think you took the riskier path. Actually you get to have more control when you don’t claim. Because then you control on what you say and how you try to appear townie, but not too good of an option to kill. When you claim, I think you kinda lose control altogether, as now nothing is in your hand and it is all up to town to decide whether to trust you or not.
You are still basing it on the fact that I claimed 3rd party. Wich I did not. That's the funny part.
You don’t deny it. So it is the same thing as admitting. It’s actually even worst because if you are indie and claim in hope that town will trust you, then it is a very counterproductive thing to be cryptic about your identity. If you are not indie, you should not have made the posts about it or even joking about it as you imply. Nothing is taken lightly in Mafia .
You know what is wrong here?
All of you look at WHAT, not at WHY.
Scum would have no point in playing way I just did.
Yet you are voting at me just cause you think it's right, just cause of meta.
No analysing, not looking for a reason.
Town and mafia can write simlar posts, the difference is why they wrote them.
If you come to me with an actual reasoning based on reads, I will able to talk about it with you.
Right now, you don't want to analyse anything to begin with.
All of you look at WHAT, not at WHY.
Scum would have no point in playing way I just did.
Yet you are voting at me just cause you think it's right, just cause of meta.
No analysing, not looking for a reason.
Town and mafia can write simlar posts, the difference is why they wrote them.
If you come to me with an actual reasoning based on reads, I will able to talk about it with you.
Right now, you don't want to analyse anything to begin with.
You are a new player here so you are a wild card. We can’t bet on you based on what you probably would do or not as scum. Especially when you are being cryptic about your identity and saying you were sarcastic after pointing to the post where you semi confirmed you are indie. Even if a well known player here did that and was not cryptic at all with no sarcastic explanations- he would still have a hard time convincing town to trust him. He might have a chance, but in your case, I think you make it harder to trust than it already is.
When getting a 3rd party role, do you always claim it right away like that?
When getting a 3rd party role, do you always claim it right away like that?
Let me repeat it. I did not claim a 3rd party role "right away like that".
It was reference to a role wich interacts with dead.
Crypting about identity? You already know my full abilities.
What else do you need?
Right now it's a lynch based on "he is new", and "he might be 3rd party". There is nothing else on the reasoning here.
And tbh even you admited it in your posts.
You are not even leaving me anything to defend against.
It's just a meta.
And this time meta is wrong.
It was reference to a role wich interacts with dead.
Crypting about identity? You already know my full abilities.
What else do you need?
Right now it's a lynch based on "he is new", and "he might be 3rd party". There is nothing else on the reasoning here.
And tbh even you admited it in your posts.
You are not even leaving me anything to defend against.
It's just a meta.
And this time meta is wrong.
First thing's first, disagreeing with you =/= not reading your post. I'm reading, understanding, and refuting your post. Not just saying the same thing over and over again, like you are.
And no, it doesn't make a difference to town. Indies can never win with town and not mafia -- besides somewhat gimmicky setups -- and any smart indie would side with the mafia, lest they be nightkilled. Even if an indie isn't "harmful" from a mechanical perspective, they are always "harmful" to the town in a realistic one.
At the end of the day, as I said before, I'm willing to accept that this is some sort of ideological situation for you and that you're never going to budge. But everyone else is disagreeing with you, because it's the foundation of the case on jplap in its entirety, so it would be much more productive for us as a town for you to drop the subject and admit defeat even if you disagree with it. You're flooding the thread with this unnecessary argument after your side of it has basically been entirely debunked, and I believe it's a little distracting for town. Which I mean, you probably want to do as mafia, but if you still want to attempt to masquerade as town, I'd just drop it if I were you.
I'm 95% sure you've left your vote on jplap so towards the end of the game if you're still around and people call back to the fact that you buddies jplap hard on Day 1 you can say "of course I didn't look I voted for him for a good number of posts" and bank on town apathy and lack of attention to refute that. Because I know you're a good enough player to know that policy voting isn't legit.
And you're flawed in the first clause. Mafia don't every townie as equal threat to them. Disregarding for a moment the obvious oscillation caused by each anti-mafia's contribution in-thread (and how accurate they are with their reads), you have a fundamental difference in threat-level based on role. A player with jplap's role, if town, is an inherently lesser threat to mafia than the doctor is. And, sure enough, the whole point of third parties is balancing out potentially super-powerful or borked roles by placing them on their own faction. Therefore, the indie is almost always the biggest threat to a mafia team, even if you lump them in with the town, except maybe the doctor. In fact, read any guides on designing mafia games (credible ones, anyway) and they will point out that third party factions exist specifically so that everyone is forced to "scumhunt" to an extent -- because mafia also have to indiehunt. This is literally mafia 101 and it's bizarre that you don't seem to understand it.
And no, it doesn't make a difference to town. Indies can never win with town and not mafia -- besides somewhat gimmicky setups -- and any smart indie would side with the mafia, lest they be nightkilled. Even if an indie isn't "harmful" from a mechanical perspective, they are always "harmful" to the town in a realistic one.
At the end of the day, as I said before, I'm willing to accept that this is some sort of ideological situation for you and that you're never going to budge. But everyone else is disagreeing with you, because it's the foundation of the case on jplap in its entirety, so it would be much more productive for us as a town for you to drop the subject and admit defeat even if you disagree with it. You're flooding the thread with this unnecessary argument after your side of it has basically been entirely debunked, and I believe it's a little distracting for town. Which I mean, you probably want to do as mafia, but if you still want to attempt to masquerade as town, I'd just drop it if I were you.
Then change it. A vote is, for town, and with no exceptions, a public declaration of you who believe is scummiest right now, or an application of that reputation to apply pressure. Your vote is doing neither. Therefore, even if it's not "sticking", you're currently using your vote in an anti-town manner.NinjaPenguin said:
I'm 95% sure you've left your vote on jplap so towards the end of the game if you're still around and people call back to the fact that you buddies jplap hard on Day 1 you can say "of course I didn't look I voted for him for a good number of posts" and bank on town apathy and lack of attention to refute that. Because I know you're a good enough player to know that policy voting isn't legit.
No, I started the Mariano wagon as RVS and then you attempted to continue it with the exact same RVS reasoning because your scumbud jplap fell into the spotlight and you were stretched to find an alternative. Your "Wagon Round 2" amounted to nothing more than a colourfully and misguidingly painted "gut read", which was even weaker reasoning than my case on him in RVS, which wasn't formed entirely seriously. No one who voted for Mariano did it because of your posts -- when they provided reasoning, it was centred around my reasoning. Sorry.NinjaPenguin said:
You know this isn't a real response. Look at the votecount. I've spearheaded all these lynches (which in itself is something I don't really want to do but whatever).NinjaPenguin said:
Because of exactly what I said in my last post which this is a "response" to. Quaking wouldn't necessarily ask that question if he had the role. He was spitballing, and all the obvious questions, one of which quaking almost certainly would have asked N0 if he had the role, were already covered in-thread by the time he made his suggestion, which he wasn't vehement about us even using. jplap, with his pick of any question in the world, chose to ask a somewhat off-piste question for town which it would advantage mafia much more to have asked than it would ever help town to ask. That's the difference, and is why Quaking isn't scummy for suggesting it, but jplap is scummy for asking it. If you still don't understand then like I said above, just drop it, because it really seems like at this point you're disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing, as none of your arguments are A) new refutations towards what I'm saying, or B) sensible.NinjaPenguin said:
You're completely missing the point. The meta on PokéBeach is different to other sites you've played on. We're not voting you for being new (scattered was saying that in response to NP saying "roz always does this" to which all we can say is "how are we meant to know that for sure?"). And we are voting you for being third party. That's what you're being cryptic about. I think you think you're being much cleverer than you are. If the police take me in for questioning and say "did you murder this man" and I reply with "prove it", that's basically taken as an admission of guilt, right? You've done exactly that this game. We've asked "are you third party" and you've replied with "prove it", rather than "no".
As I said before, if you're a true neutral indie, post your win condition. The fact that you haven't done that already shows that you're not. No one bases conversations based exclusively on what the other person has said -- the human language is just as much about what people omit. We literally have an entire word for lying via omission (equivocation), so your attempts at being sneaky by "oh but I didn't claim third party" are actually not smart at all and are most of why you've got lynched. If you were up-front from the beginning and said "right, this is my win condition, keep me around" then hell yeah we probably would've done. But you've passed that point by trying to be slippery. It sucks for you that we're on a beach.
I say the same thing over and over because it doesn't feel like you're listening to me. Just please leave your tunnel and listen to what I have to say because I don't feel like playing with Brasas (you wouldn't know who he is, but Zone and eevee sure do) all over again.
I also see that you think this, but you're quite simply ignoring the fact the advantage to town is much greater than the advantage to mafia and instead wanting to ask a question that will never benefit town but if Jplap is scum, could benefit a lot. Like this question is the best one to ask and I will keep pushing it as long as the options you suggest still suck. The OC question is a good option and I'm willing to accept that I guess, but I feel like there isn't going to be any neighborhood QTs in this game and every other question is much more mafia sided than my own.
Shockingly, I could say the exact same distraction stuff for you, who's tunneling hard on pre-flip association reads and not letting me say a word without getting screamed out.
No, this vote applies pressure for people to get their act together. A town mired in this basic bad play isn't going to win, so I'm using this vote to try to eliminate anti-town ideas constantly flying around.
Yep because that's obviously going to happen when I called it a policy vote and told multiple people it was.
Sorry, you started the major wagons today oh great King Celever, but I a mere peasant liked one of the people on the wagon for different reasoning that wasn't your royal decree on how it might be a good wagon.
You'd know I responded to exactly your insinuation that I've spent this day attacking the person that pushed my scumbuddies...if you read.
The Quaking thing is whatever; you clearly get reads differently than I do and as long as it works for both of us well enough I'm cool with it.
I just wish we could have some private place to talk it out because I really think you're a townie; just one with a bad mindset who's tunneling wayyyy to hard to examine the whole game, which I'm trying my best to get you to do.
You are having what I said reversed in your stories.
I don't say "prove it to the police" I say "I never claimed 3rd party" aka "I never murdered this man".
See the difference?
Also, wtf am I apparently crypting about?
You know my whole role rn.
I even confirmed it's what I am.
You know my whole role rn.
I even confirmed it's what I am.
@NinjaPenguin if you was town, you would talk to me right now.
My thoughts have already been stated by everybody else, eevee. I really want to believe what you're saying, but I can't get past that comment, even if it's sarcastic, and you having a lack of reads besides the Mariano one (which I was waiting for you to make another post in case you'd give one, but it doesn't seem that's true besides this post I guess). Give me a more detailed reads list or more of that kind of town thought process that shows me how you really have been considering alignment this game and I'll for sure reconsider.
Mariano is playing in a way wich looks like trying to get stronger position in town.
Overexplaining. Overanalysing. Trying to do everything perfectly to seems like a player worth keeping.
I also don't like you rn.
Cause you avoid the interaction with me (current wagon) and slip around, quoting and discussing with Celever instead.
Celever is directly trying to talk to me, and even if wrong, he is town type of wrong. You just try to slip by.
And even your answer to me is fake. Cause tbh.
How would reads even help anyone acused of being third party?
OK I'll adjust the story:
Police: "Did you murder this man?"
Murderer: "I never said I did"
Police: "Well, did you?"
Murderer: "I haven't said I did"
Police: "Did you not murder this man"
Murderer: "I haven't said either way"
That's both what's cryptic and incriminating about your stance depending on outlook. Either way, it's not towny behaviour.
Then you're dead ok bye.
And I'm going to assume this just shows your lack of experience in handling those type of roles. Because I am totally down, and we've worked with before, town-sided indies. If you had at any point acted town instead of this high-and-mighty playstyle, then maybe you wouldn't be on the chopping block. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Means nothing.
You've done nothing but focus attention to yourself because of your ignorance to what your actions mean. You refuse to deny being indie, and you DID claim to be. You cannot reverse that, as much as you tried. So yes, I do 100% believe you are a detriment to keep at this point, even if you are town.
Maybe if you read/responded to more posts against you instead of cherry picking, dunno.
As I said, we've played full games with town indies. Heck, I was one at one point. You know what I didn't do? Use cryptic language or act like I was above everyone's questions.
Probably because you claimed indie first. Dunno. If we're not supposed to believe that claim, why should we believe this one?
At this point no not really, but that's only because I'm tired of your logic circles.
Aaaaaaand... You still did!
Tie 'im up.
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