Finished Mafia LXI: Forest Fire: Game Over!

[Vom]

Oh and before I forget, if you really don't wanna lose your quoted posts, switch to the BBCode editor (top right corner), and quote there - that works for me. However make sure you c/p the whole thing because sometimes when switching back they go poof.

 

[bbninjas]

I find that clicking reply and copy-pasting from the text-editor as the best way to deal with multi-quoting

Interesting that @bbninjas actually took the credit for starting the Ephe wagon when Amici gave him the chance. I was originally going to correct Amici, but I decided it was more interesting to see what bb said about it first.

I can't say I understand this.

@Vom i have dropped it lol. Still think there's scum there but now I'm pursuing them individually. You are likely town, people who've played with mega say he looks like town, so I'm checking bb while making a case on cel.

You're basing your town reads on meta? You know how dangerous that is right?

 

[Ephemera]

I'm definitely not clearing Mega on meta, but I figure while he has few posts I'll let the people who know him better try and read that slot.

When he posts more I'll go back to that.

 

[MegaPod_781]

(also can I just say I love the activity this game it's only D1 and we're only two pages away from being longer than last game)

some questions to spark even more activity

@MegaPod_781 what do you think of Cel?
@Jadethepokemontrainer what do you think of bb?

Tbh, I do see the points you raise against Celever. Saying he’d been preparing a quote wall but having almost no thoughts to share does look rather suspicious. And then looking closer at his reason for “spiritually voting” you, his comment about you “not solving” seems odd to me. I’m still wary of you for the whole attention-shifting thing, buuut I don’t think you’ve been short on questioning and judging other players, so in all fairness I think his reason for keeping a vote on you is, uh, lazy and wrong. So, I’ll go ahead and do what I was gonna do earlier, because you two have sorta swapped places on my leans list after some thought :v

##UNPRESSX: Ephemera
##INSERTCLEVERVERBHERE: Celever

 

[Celever]

Look at me putting up with phone PB for yall smh

lmao @ the multi quote comment being read as sus. I caught up by vanity ctrl+Fing because I’m low efforting and it’s easiest to make reads based on the one thing I know (my alignment). The multi quote was 2 posts from Ephe being paranoid as hell over my RVS on them saying that I “targeted” them which is nonsense, and then bb’s “lets vote cel cos even if he’s town he’ll help out!” which is scum minded. I acc read the pages after I left in full and these are cemented with Ephe’s “I think I pinned Cel as scum here cos he gave up on his multiquote wall” and bb’s same except bb was more conservative so idk less scummy. MegaPod jumping on it is also ???

If me giving up on my multi quote wall is enough to gain 3 players’ attention (meaning at least one town) then that just consolidates my point that there’s not much to talk about or read into ahaha

and Nah Ephe I made the one line quip cos you and Amici were having the most NAI conversation ever but seemingly putting effort into it to look towny and I found it funny, I was never making reads off that

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Day 1: Vote Count 3​

Ephemera (3)-Vom, Celever, bbninjas
Celever (3)-Amici, Ephemera, MegaPod_781
MegaPod_781 (1)-Jadethepokemontrainer
Amici (1)-scattered mind
Not Voting: Fiery_Lugia

If the day ended right now, the elimination would be randomly chosen between Ephemera and Celever. There are 24 hours remaining in the day.

Vote History:

Spoiler

#20-Celever voted bbninjas
#23-Amici voted Celever
#27-Ephemera voted Celever
#30-Vom voted Fiery_Lugia
#32-Ephemera voted Vom
#41-Ephemera voted Ephemera
#42-Ephemera voted Vom
#47-Vom voted Ephemera
#51-Jadethepokemontrainer voted MegaPod_781
#55-Celever voted Ephemera
#81-MegaPod_781 voted bbninjas
#102-bbninjas voted Ephemera
#120-Ephemera voted bbninjas
#123-Ephemera voted MegaPod_781
#139-MegaPod_781 voted Ephemera
#151-Scattered mind voted Amici
#162-Ephemera voted Celever
#244-MegaPod_781 voted Celever

If I'm missing any votes, please let me know. For the ease of making a votecount, it helps to bold votes if possible, but that is not required.

The following players have not posted in the past 24 hours and are being tagged (this isn't a warning or anything, just a reminder):
@scattered mind

 

[Amici]

@Jadethepokemontrainer @Fiery_Lugia @scattered mind

Reasons why your votes are where they are.

 

[bbninjas]

Look at me putting up with phone PB for yall smh

lmao @ the multi quote comment being read as sus. I caught up by vanity ctrl+Fing because I’m low efforting and it’s easiest to make reads based on the one thing I know (my alignment). The multi quote was 2 posts from Ephe being paranoid as hell over my RVS on them saying that I “targeted” them which is nonsense, and then bb’s “lets vote cel cos even if he’s town he’ll help out!” which is scum minded. I acc read the pages after I left in full and these are cemented with Ephe’s “I think I pinned Cel as scum here cos he gave up on his multiquote wall” and bb’s same except bb was more conservative so idk less scummy. MegaPod jumping on it is also ???

If me giving up on my multi quote wall is enough to gain 3 players’ attention (meaning at least one town) then that just consolidates my point that there’s not much to talk about or read into ahaha

and Nah Ephe I made the one line quip cos you and Amici were having the most NAI conversation ever but seemingly putting effort into it to look towny and I found it funny, I was never making reads off that

If your long multi-quote consisted of those 2 posts from Ephe and the 1 post from me, then you lack of understanding of what's actually happened this day makes sense. It's just shown that you haven't actually read the thread. So many gross inaccuracies and over-exaggerations coming from your right now.

There has been plenty of things to talk about regarding the people who have actually been posting, and now people are turning their attention to those who have not been posting (and rightfully so).

@Celever Can you go back and read the thread and provide your thoughts on these things:

- Ephemera and their "coincidental" voting patterns
- Whether or not Amici has been scumhunting or otherwise helpful
- Whether or not Vom has been playing with the town or against the town
- Whether or not Fiery is being coached by scum
- A metaread on Jade, scattered, Mega and myself

If you don't understand what I mean by these, then you definitely need to go back and read the thread.

@Fiery_Lugia I would like you to vote in the next 12 hours
@Jadethepokemontrainer, @scattered mind you two need to vote one of the main wagons in your next post, or reaffirm or start a new wagon if you're unhappy with the main two

 

[JadeGemTM]

Sorry y'all, I've gotten pretty caught up with a school project today. I'm here now, ish.

@Jadethepokemontrainer what do you think of bb?

Like I've said, it's hard for me to read bb. He does seem to be actively scumhunting though, so that's a positivity point his way, lol. I'll read back into his posts more though and see what I can get, because I don't want to just dismiss him because of read problems I've had in the past.

As a side note, I think there's a good chance one of the three most active - bb/Ephe/Vom - are scum trying to come off as townie by leading. Thoughts on that anyone?
Also, I haven't forgotten what I said about looking into Amici more, I want to see if there's anything more there because I've felt something off from her but can't put a finger on it and want to see if that actually leads anywhere. May just be the more chaotic playstyle that I always struggle with. Regardless, I will follow up on that by the end of the day, whether I have something or it's just "nah nvm didn't get anything."

@Jadethepokemontrainer @Fiery_Lugia @scattered mind

Reasons why your votes are where they are.

Because rvs, and I just hadn't taken it off lol.

##UNWELCOME: MegaPod

:U :U you don't get a welcome anymore.

@Jadethepokemontrainer, @scattered mind you two need to vote one of the main wagons in your next post, or reaffirm or start a new wagon if you're unhappy with the main two

Uh yeah looking at the two, ##POKE: Celever

Cel is rubbing me the wrong way rn as how he is playing right now seems off from normal Cel play. I definitely recall him being more active when played before, and I'm pretty sure that was him as town. Why did he have a multi-quote post but deleted it? That confused me when I read it. Then he jumps on the Ephe train, and his read is entirely based off of meta. He doesn't say "they aren't solving" he says "they aren't solving like they usually do." He also brings up a "point" but doesn't actually back it up with anything because "there isn't anything"? Or am I misunderstanding what he is saying there? Seems like the original post he explains he had is more useful than the meta read on Ephe, imo.

Maybe, as they've gotten a bit buddy-buddy in their last few points which is a very sudden change. But I'd be more inclined to see a different link - remind me to bring it up later in the day

Yes reminder @bbninjas

More from me tomorrow, I'm beat from 3+ hours of writing today

 

[bbninjas]

Oh right! I thought Eph and Fiery could be scumbuddies if Eph is scum. Fiery seems to mainly respond to Eph and their read list is extremely similar to Eph's, but on the reread I don't think this is indicative.

Sorry, forgot to put my question to Lily in that last post lol.

@Lily who do you think are genuine, or solving from a town mindset? who do you think are suspicious?

i think you, jade, and sm seem the most genuine, and bb is the most sus, along with maybe amici

I dont remember you answering my question. Can you gibve the name of a player you feel is probably the less scummy so far?

hmm, hard one but id say maybe jade seems the least scummy

However it's much weaker than I thought. Notice how Fiery finds Amici scummy, which deviates from Eph's readlist. This actually doesn't surprise me on town!Fiery. New town tend to find mysterious and aggressive people scummy, and helpful and polite and nice people townie. Amici acts a bit mysterious/secluded, so Fiery's read makes sense. By the same token, I'm fairly aggressive, while Eph, scattered and Jade all fit that "nice guy" bill. It makes sense that Fiery's list is similar to Eph's, because Eph is in Fiery's town reads and so Fiery is probably using Eph's posts as a starting point.

tl;dr All of Fiery_Lugia's reads matches what you would expect from a new town player; I think Fiery is towniest out of everyone here.

As a side note, I think there's a good chance one of the three most active - bb/Ephe/Vom - are scum trying to come off as townie by leading. Thoughts on that anyone?

The chance of scum being in any random group of 3 people is 59.5%, so I mean you're not wrong...

@Jadethepokemontrainer @Fiery_Lugia @scattered mind

Reasons why your votes are where they are.

Why is your vote on Celever btw? I think I missed it

 

[Amici]

Lily is weird, none of their posts have stuck in my head. Need to comb through them.

I just back read the thread and I now see why,

none of them have any actual game substance and is just fluff.
rn my PoE contains
Cel/Ephe/Lily

GTH town core is
Me/BB/Mega

 

[Amici]

Why is your vote on Celever btw? I think I missed it

It was an RVS joke vote that I hadn't bothered moving as nobody really warranted voting from my POV. As of Cel's recent posting I am more than happy to keep it there as it's absolutely horrid

 

[bbninjas]

@Everyone on the Celever wagon. Do you all seriously believe that scum!Celever, one of the most experienced and self-aware people playing this game, would act so obviously scummy and intentionally base his vote on inaccurate interpretations of the game state, and pretend to have "thoughts to share" when he actually does not? I don't see the scum tactic here and don't understand all those votes piling on what is essentially a lynch-a-lurker wagon.

@Jadethepokemontrainer there's less then 24 hours left in the day, so now is not the time to be just poking.
@Amici don't know why you're expecting a new player (Fiery / Lily) to be making posts of actual game substance. But anyway, what's your reasons for Mega in the town core? His posts seem remarkably unsubstantial for his level experience (I assume you've picked up on who hasn't / has played this game before)

It was an RVS joke vote that I hadn't bothered moving as nobody really warranted voting from my POV. As of Cel's recent posting I am more than happy to keep it there as it's absolutely horrid

Are you voting Celever because you think he's scum, or because you think he's being anti-town?

 

[Amici]

@Everyone on the Celever wagon. Do you all seriously believe that scum!Celever, one of the most experienced and self-aware people playing this game, would act so obviously scummy and intentionally base his vote on inaccurate interpretations of the game state, and pretend to have "thoughts to share" when he actually does not? I don't see the scum tactic here and don't understand all those votes piling on what is essentially a lynch-a-lurker wagon.

@Jadethepokemontrainer there's less then 24 hours left in the day, so now is not the time to be just poking.
@Amici don't know why you're expecting a new player (Fiery / Lily) to be making posts of actual game substance. But anyway, what's your reasons for Mega in the town core? His posts seem remarkably unsubstantial for his level experience (I assume you've picked up on who hasn't / has played this game before)



Are you voting Celever because you think he's scum, or because you think he's being anti-town?

I have no familiarity with any player's gamestyle. So I'm working off 'what you see is what ya get'. Also LolWifom is a thing. My gut says scum on cel, my head says scum on cell, and all other miscellaneous body parts feel it

I try to hold everyone to roughly the same standard. Doesn't matter if you are the greatest fm player to grace the world, you'll still be treated roughly the same as a newbie in terms of in-thread handling. I'm not gonna try to read someone insanely good the way I would read a newbie. Will reeval on Lily's slot over night though as today they are not in a place to be murderized

I am currently voting Cel because I think he is scum. It just feels like WIFOM to just completely seem unaware of the thread when it's really not that hard to do

 

[bbninjas]

I am currently voting Cel because I think he is scum. It just feels like WIFOM to just completely seem unaware of the thread when it's really not that hard to do

Being or appearing unaware of the thread is usually the byproduct of lurking, which means this wagon is essentially a lynch-a-lurker. Do you agree (why / why not), and if you do, why have you decided that it's best to eliminate the lurking player today instead of giving them a chance to redeem themselves in Day 1?

The Celever seems to waste one of our very few eliminations on someone who won’t provide much info if they flip town

 

[bbninjas]

@Amici don't know why you're expecting a new player (Fiery / Lily) to be making posts of actual game substance. But anyway, what's your reasons for Mega in the town core? His posts seem remarkably unsubstantial for his level experience (I assume you've picked up on who hasn't / has played this game before)

Also you didn't answer the bolded

 

[Vom]

Actually, I've reread your post Eph and I think there is indicative stuff in there which I would like to comment on once Celever provides those quotes. The basis of your case is NAI.

Celever never ended up providing any quotes, but can we still get that indicative stuff?

I can't say I understand this.

I mean, no one else has commented on it until now so maybe I'm just wrong, but up until now I thought I was the one to start the push on Ephemera.

tl;dr All of Fiery_Lugia's reads matches what you would expect from a new town player; I think Fiery is towniest out of everyone here.

I was gonna agree with the first half and (surprise!) argue against the second, but rereading your Fiery/Ephe theory doesn't seem too crazy. Of course, if Ephemera does get lynched today we'll know whether it's worth looking into more, but here's something about that for tomorrow since without knowing Ephe's alignment it's eh.

But independently of that, I would certainly not say Lily is the towniest player here - while it is not realistic to expect walls upon walls of ideas from a new player, it is realistic to expect at least one (1) thought/explanation for literally anything. Whereas in Fiery's case, she hasn't put out a single thought. She's been cooperative when people have asked her things, and has given out reads/feels, but at no point has she justified literally anything.

Now you could argue she hasn't been asked to, since she's been kind of forgotten in the Ephemera/Celever wagons with the Day ending, or that she hasn't been pressured (nobody wants to be that guy), or anything, but in my experience the #1 goal of new town players is to not get eliminated for saying the wrong thing or appearing to mindlessly follow. Basically, their goals align a lot with scum - which is really unfortunate - but they do it anyway without even realizing until someone teaches them better.

Now, I haven't seen Lily trying to overcompensate for anything, or try a bit too hard to explain herself so no one gets the wrong idea - you yourself had to fill in the gaps and motives behind her reads since she never explained them anywhere. I haven't seen anyone teach her better in-thread either.

Obviously this isn't nearly enough reason to eliminate her, but I think you should reconsider your read on her.

 

[Vom]

Ok so I had more regarding that, but there's really no reason to until we see Ephe's flip. I will say though it's nitpicky, but I don't think that should immediately mean it's not worthy of consideration. I mean, no one's gonna make an obvious slip up - devil's in the details, after all.

 

[Ephemera]

wallpost woot

Look at me putting up with phone PB for yall smh

lmao @ the multi quote comment being read as sus. I caught up by vanity ctrl+Fing because I’m low efforting and it’s easiest to make reads based on the one thing I know (my alignment). The multi quote was 2 posts from Ephe being paranoid as hell over my RVS on them saying that I “targeted” them which is nonsense, and then bb’s “lets vote cel cos even if he’s town he’ll help out!” which is scum minded. I acc read the pages after I left in full and these are cemented with Ephe’s “I think I pinned Cel as scum here cos he gave up on his multiquote wall” and bb’s same except bb was more conservative so idk less scummy. MegaPod jumping on it is also ???

If me giving up on my multi quote wall is enough to gain 3 players’ attention (meaning at least one town) then that just consolidates my point that there’s not much to talk about or read into ahaha

and Nah Ephe I made the one line quip cos you and Amici were having the most NAI conversation ever but seemingly putting effort into it to look towny and I found it funny, I was never making reads off that

lol

hate the bolded so much. hate even more that it can still come from town, although unlikely. If this is town, this isn't good town. There's always gonna be something to talk about, 13 pages of activity D1 being ruled out is completely bleh. I like my vote on this slot even more, still want to hear more from Cel though.

weh.

However it's much weaker than I thought. Notice how Fiery finds Amici scummy, which deviates from Eph's readlist. This actually doesn't surprise me on town!Fiery. New town tend to find mysterious and aggressive people scummy, and helpful and polite and nice people townie. Amici acts a bit mysterious/secluded, so Fiery's read makes sense. By the same token, I'm fairly aggressive, while Eph, scattered and Jade all fit that "nice guy" bill. It makes sense that Fiery's list is similar to Eph's, because Eph is in Fiery's town reads and so Fiery is probably using Eph's posts as a starting point.

tl;dr All of Fiery_Lugia's reads matches what you would expect from a new town player; I think Fiery is towniest out of everyone here.

cut out some of this post but I agree with this for the most part. Although I haven't been trying to play the "nice guy" angle lol, defining stuff for new players is probably the one (1) nice thing I've been doing this game

Towniest out of everyone here is a bit much though. While it's unlikely, it's possible Lily's being told to act that way by a scumbuddy. Doubt it, but we can't rule it out.

@Everyone on the Celever wagon. Do you all seriously believe that scum!Celever, one of the most experienced and self-aware people playing this game, would act so obviously scummy and intentionally base his vote on inaccurate interpretations of the game state, and pretend to have "thoughts to share" when he actually does not? I don't see the scum tactic here and don't understand all those votes piling on what is essentially a lynch-a-lurker wagon.

@Jadethepokemontrainer there's less then 24 hours left in the day, so now is not the time to be just poking.
@Amici don't know why you're expecting a new player (Fiery / Lily) to be making posts of actual game substance. But anyway, what's your reasons for Mega in the town core? His posts seem remarkably unsubstantial for his level experience (I assume you've picked up on who hasn't / has played this game before)

Are you voting Celever because you think he's scum, or because you think he's being anti-town?

1) wiiiiiine, so much wine, i'm drowning in it

2) like the questions though, but need to see where this could go before this is AI

3) voting scum, and voting anti-town. See my response to the next quote for more.

Being or appearing unaware of the thread is usually the byproduct of lurking, which means this wagon is essentially a lynch-a-lurker. Do you agree (why / why not), and if you do, why have you decided that it's best to eliminate the lurking player today instead of giving them a chance to redeem themselves in Day 1?

The Celever seems to waste one of our very few eliminations on someone who won’t provide much info if they flip town

I N F O Y E E T

infoelims are the worst thing we can do lol. Eliminate scummy people. I don't like Cel's responses – I've seen Cel as relatively lowposting town (been teamed with him) and the tone/way stuff was conveyed was not like this. lolmetareads, but combined with the fact that it's just not good at all, my voting of this slot isn't just voting a lurker, it's voting a legit scumread.

 

[Ephemera]

I was gonna agree with the first half and (surprise!) argue against the second, but rereading your Fiery/Ephe theory doesn't seem too crazy. Of course, if Ephemera does get lynched today we'll know whether it's worth looking into more, but here's something about that for tomorrow since without knowing Ephe's alignment it's eh.

But independently of that, I would certainly not say Lily is the towniest player here - while it is not realistic to expect walls upon walls of ideas from a new player, it is realistic to expect at least one (1) thought/explanation for literally anything. Whereas in Fiery's case, she hasn't put out a single thought. She's been cooperative when people have asked her things, and has given out reads/feels, but at no point has she justified literally anything.

Now you could argue she hasn't been asked to, since she's been kind of forgotten in the Ephemera/Celever wagons with the Day ending, or that she hasn't been pressured (nobody wants to be that guy), or anything, but in my experience the #1 goal of new town players is to not get eliminated for saying the wrong thing or appearing to mindlessly follow. Basically, their goals align a lot with scum - which is really unfortunate - but they do it anyway without even realizing until someone teaches them better.

Now, I haven't seen Lily trying to overcompensate for anything, or try a bit too hard to explain herself so no one gets the wrong idea - you yourself had to fill in the gaps and motives behind her reads since she never explained them anywhere. I haven't seen anyone teach her better in-thread either.

Obviously this isn't nearly enough reason to eliminate her, but I think you should reconsider your read on her.

(foreword: cut out stuff that's not relevant to my thoughts here)

Eh. I think we'll see more from Lily as the game goes on. Starting out with a relatively higher activity PB game can be overwhelming i guess. I still feel like her slot is town, because the posts felt genuine, not coached.

@Fiery_Lugia has anything happened since you last posted that stood out to you? Was it scummy? Towny? Were there any interactions that felt off? Stuff like that is pretty much how you form reads and ideas on other players.

Basically, I'll save reevaluating Lily for D2. Much better stuff to go on today.

Ok so I had more regarding that, but there's really no reason to until we see Ephe's flip. I will say though it's nitpicky, but I don't think that should immediately mean it's not worthy of consideration. I mean, no one's gonna make an obvious slip up - devil's in the details, after all.

I don't think my flip should have any effect on Lily's alignment.