Finished Mafia XLII: War of the Gods ~ GAME OVER ~ Town wins!

[Ice Espeon]

But eh my brain is mush. See you tomorrow when somebody picked this thread apart and spun the gun in my direction o/

You asked for it.

##VOTE: mirdo

RVS is always like this with the overthinking. I can't remember if I've ever played a game with NP before, but he seems to be playing with Camo's aggression but with attempting to explain his actions. bb, Celever and SM are playing how I sort of remember them playing.

 

[Ice Espeon]

Though I would say, from what I remember Camoposting worked best when Camo wasn't posting reasoning but instead just going with the aggression.

 

[Celever]

NP denounces Camoposting on the frequent, so that's a curious observation.

 

[bbninjas]

Somewhat ironic considering you said that lorde "totally misread the case". I have definitely said in past games that ignoring a direct question because someone else summed up your thoughts is most unhelpful, because people can't read your mind.

Either way, are you sure that your thoughts are the same as lordes, because what lorde said was very WIFOMy and simply not well thought out - anything can be a fabricated stance.

"It could easily be a fabricated stance, this has been pointed out. Don't rule this out." - lorde

Oh, and Celever decided to ignore me again. Stop tunnelling. ##UNVOTE ##VOTE: Celever

You asked for it.

##VOTE: mirdo

What do you think about NP? What do you think about HW choosing to not contribute? Does nothing else so far stand out to you?

RVS is always like this with the overthinking. I can't remember if I've ever played a game with NP before, but he seems to be playing with Camo's aggression but with attempting to explain his actions. bb, Celever and SM are playing how I sort of remember them playing.

I brought this up last game (see below), and it's completely applicable here. NP is not playing like Camo. He's no where near as aggressive as Camo. Camo posts four or five times in quick succession, doesn't explain things and is much more pushy. Don't throw around comparisons like that, because they're false.

Spoiler

I think scattered brought this up first, but seriously... Celever is doing nothing like a Camo play style. Camo is ten times worse. Camo posts tons of short posts, is a lot more aggressive, doesn't explain anything, etc. Celever is a sarcastic person, tends to be aggressive, only didn't explain something once (I think) - which is a ironically a strategy to gather reads and cause reactions (it worked this game!), etc.

The reason I don't think people should be throwing around comparisons to Camo's style is that Camo-play has negative, scummy connotations. By comparing it to Camo's style, it makes things sound much worse than it really does, which isn't a good thing when people are sheeping after it.

I want to make it very clear that neither of us have played anything like Camo. Camo is over the top, extremely aggressive, doesn't explain etc etc... Just being aggressive does not equate to 'playing like Camo'. Making these comparisons is both unfair and exaggerated, and as Camo's play has negative conotations, it's even more anti-town. I pretty sure I spent a solid paragraph during Day 1 explaining why we shouldn't just lightly compare aggressiveness to Camo's play.

NP denounces Camoposting on the frequent, so that's a curious observation.

And you should know that NP is not playing like Camo at all. Why are you being selective and just going along with this observation, instead of actually thinking about the legitimacy?

 

[Scattered mind]

You would lynch someone over not being particularly valuable during Day 1, where that same person would very likely be valuable Day 2 and onwards? Why?

No. I would lynch someone over a principle in order to improve our meta in a game that has nothing else to do but that. And I mean nothing. Not even regular inactives. If such a game existed, then yes, it would be a nice option. But again, that's just a theoretical point. If I am not going after HW for this, why do you keep asking me about it? You say you scumhunt, but then again, this is not related to this game so I am not following you.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Mobile post, so expect rushed grammar. I'll try to respond to other people later, but you may have to wait 12 hours:

1) Why did you cut point 4 out of the post and not respond to it at all? Not responding is a mistake, cutting it out is intentional.
I had no response. I did do what you described in Point 4, and I don't have a defense against me doing it. I told you why I don't think that points to me being scum in the next point.
2) This is like me evaluating the flaws in a spade, and then you saying that my points are flawed because the spade is actually yellow. There isn't a single post in RVS with legitimate reasoning -- that's why it's the Random Voting Stage. Therefore, whether the post has words in it or not is inconsequential as anything.
There's a reason why you should at least say something when you RVS (unless you bandwagon), and I've explained it plenty of times. You need to stop tunneling and actually read my posts.
You mean the point that you're trying to play like how you say you play as you town rather than your traditional town meta is useless because you described how you play as town in the last postgame? Huh. I don't follow.
I never described it as how I played as town then. You were saying that I acted the same way as I did in the postgame. Why do you think me doing the same thing I did then (when I had no reason to possibly want to mislead people) is scummy?
Make a better case NP.
I don't currently have a case. I'll make one when I find a good one.

NP denounces Camoposting on the frequent, so that's a curious observation.

Since when?

Cel, half of what you're doing is selectively listening to what I say and putting up a strawman to counter it. If you actually listen to what I've said, you'll be able to find most of my responses to your questions. You're in the mindset where you look at a post and try to find it as scummy, which just hurts the town (see: me in Star Wars).

 

[bbninjas]

No. I would lynch someone over a principle in order to improve our meta in a game that has nothing else to do but that. And I mean nothing. Not even regular inactives. If such a game existed, then yes, it would be a nice option. But again, that's just a theoretical point. If I am not going after HW for this, why do you keep asking me about it? You say you scumhunt, but then again, this is not related to this game so I am not following you.

Because it didn't make sense, and when something does not make sense - especially during Day 1 - you should look into it.

 

[Celever]

Zzz bb don't make me try and quote your post specifically when I phone post. That post was responded to.

NP, I wish I were in the mindset of looking for scummy things in innocent posts. Turns out I'm looking at all players neutrally and you just happen to be the scummiest, rip.

 

[NinjaPenguin]

Zzz bb don't make me try and quote your post specifically when I phone post. That post was responded to.

NP, I wish I were in the mindset of looking for scummy things in innocent posts. Turns out I'm looking at all players neutrally and you just happen to be the scummiest, rip.

You found a player you think is scum (me), and are seeing everything I do as scummy. You don't stop to even consider that there may be town motivation behind my posts. If you look at how I read bb in Star Wars, it really is just the same. I became so entranced in my "knowledge" that bb was scum that I didn't stop to consider other explanations and ignored someone who I could have counterclaimed. It's not necessarily scummy, just more anti-town.

 

[Professor Palutena]

Okay I go to work for two days and this all happens.

My thought on NP is that everyone is over-reacting on him, and also that NP over-reacted to an obvious RVS vote. There's nothing more to it than that.

 

[bbninjas]

Zzz bb don't make me try and quote your post specifically when I phone post. That post was responded to.

Follows are all of your posts that you made after I made my post. None of these are a response to my post.

There are a number of flaws here:
1) How is bb meant to bandwagon someone without another player placing a first vote?
2) Bandwagons are the spokesperson of WIFOMing. Think about it. If a scum bandwagons on town and they get lynched, scum wins out. If a scum bandwagons on scum and they get lynched, scum wins town cred.
3) Though the bandwagon is in RVS, it's actually IMO more important for everyone to feel the effects of RVS rather than just a few people more strongly.
4) It's important not to make your opinions sound like facts. It's scummy and it seems like you're trying to lead a bit too hard.

Point 4 is a major mindset shift I've seen this game. There was a bit of it in the last game's postgame too, but whenever you've played as town, it simply hasn't been the case. Beyond that, it's weird that you're picking apart every single post now and that you haven't done it before. Because uh, that's how I play scum. It's actually my biggest scumtell. And the reason why it's a scumtell in general is because you get more paranoid as scum, and therefore have to make sure there aren't hidden messages in the posts of your other players where they suspect you. And also the lust for control over the game, which is consolidated by your incredibly opinionated tone.

This is also why I included the idea that you're acting like you describe your town play as. You've talked about the importance of RVS for ages, but you've always seemed a little too insecure to go all-out with it. In this game, you are going all-out. This shift is because you know who's scum and who isn't, and your RVS pushes are for a purpose -- I'm sure of it.

You misunderstood the case but responded to bb decently.

1) Why did you cut point 4 out of the post and not respond to it at all? Not responding is a mistake, cutting it out is intentional.
2) This is like me evaluating the flaws in a spade, and then you saying that my points are flawed because the spade is actually yellow. There isn't a single post in RVS with legitimate reasoning -- that's why it's the Random Voting Stage. Therefore, whether the post has words in it or not is inconsequential as anything.

You mean the point that you're trying to play like how you say you play as you town rather than your traditional town meta is useless because you described how you play as town in the last postgame? Huh. I don't follow.

There could. The issue is that your play this game helps town less than your traditional RVS play. Therefore I don't think it's anything but.

Make a better case NP. It'll give us a nice interpersonal read for when you flip scum.

NP denounces Camoposting on the frequent, so that's a curious observation.

Okay I go to work for two days and this all happens.

My thought on NP is that everyone is over-reacting on him, and also that NP over-reacted to an obvious RVS vote. There's nothing more to it than that.

Do you think there is anyone scummy (or townie) based on the interactions you've seen so far?

 

[Professor Palutena]

Do you think there is anyone scummy (or townie) based on the interactions you've seen so far?

To be frank, you're showing up as scummy based on your play this game and last game :U

 

[bbninjas]

To be frank, you're showing up as scummy based on your play this game and last game :U

Or my play last game was pretty similar to my town play. :U

 

[Haunted Water]

As to answer the question that I missed, my opinion on my players currently, I do feel that NP is reacting rather harshly compared to how I'd react with being metagamed, but the meta has changed so apparently metagaming is better than pressure voting.

 

[JadeGemTM]

JUST KISS ALREADY. Also "It's so fluffy I'm gonna die.
I wouldn't put it past Cel and NP to be Scumbuddys and doing this as a distraction. Considering how experienced and sh*t they are. Just Sayin.

^

Wouldn't really be surprised to see a Cel and NP scumteam. Really my only scumread's based off of what other people have said.

 

[bbninjas]

Wouldn't really be surprised to see a Cel and NP scumteam. Really my only scumread's based off of what other people have said.

Do you not have any of your own thoughts regarding what others have said?

 

[JadeGemTM]

Do you not have any of your own thoughts regarding what others have said?

Looking back now. Give me a little

 

[Celever]

You found a player you think is scum (me), and are seeing everything I do as scummy. You don't stop to even consider that there may be town motivation behind my posts. If you look at how I read bb in Star Wars, it really is just the same. I became so entranced in my "knowledge" that bb was scum that I didn't stop to consider other explanations and ignored someone who I could have counterclaimed. It's not necessarily scummy, just more anti-town.

You don't live in my head and this isn't what's happening. I'm looking at all the cases, but the vast majority suck completely. The only other case is HW, who is being voted for because of his playstyle. I'm not sure what else you want from me.

Of course, there are a large amount of players who have no pressure on them. That's regrettable, and should be changed. But instead of doing so (what happened to your extremely aggressive RVS play, huh?) you opted to OMGUS me instead. I'm not going to move my vote away from obvscum to potentially end up pressuring an inexperienced townie who buckles under the pressure, giving you a free pass. That sounds like a fairly dumb thing to do.

I want everyone to comment on NP's case, no exceptions, and from the time of this post. IDC if you've done it already. A genuine (he is town / not town / I'm ambivalent because of XYZ). Will tag when I get to a computer (and reply to bb's post because he gets sad when I don't).

 

[bbninjas]

Looking back now. Give me a little

Well that didn't really happen.

I want everyone to comment on NP's case, no exceptions, and from the time of this post. IDC if you've done it already. A genuine (he is town / not town / I'm ambivalent because of XYZ).

I'd like you to restate the case on NP. IDC if you've done it already.

Will tag when I get to a computer (and reply to bb's post because he gets sad when I don't).

How kind.

 

[Scattered mind]

I put my bet on NP being scum. Not sure about voting him, though, let's just say I was thinking we might get other options too.. and I don't consider HW a real case. I was kinda busy lately, but today I have some time to get into this game.