Finished Mafia XXXVIII: Battle for the Republic (Congratulations Darth Sidious!)

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Tunnel vision much? I haven't heard simsands discuss anything but my lynch since day 3 & 4. If you read back on day yesterday you will realize just how aggresive simsands is acting, which is not very town like. Why do we not discuss inactive players? Too many players don't open their mouth and that's only a convenience for scum. I've made myself pretty clear yesterday but that seems to be ignored. Those points simsands presented yesterday look like an attempt to help quakingpunch.

##VOTE: simsands

Once again I don't fully understand why I'm suddenly a target. There's not much to defend about behaviour.
 
@Jabberwock; Got any more information for us today?
Why yes I do.
You have learnt about the Senate Order, Day's Grace

The player who is lynched at the end of the Day Period that this Senate Order is active will have their role revealed, but will not die until the end of the following Day Period. (They get an extra night and day).
However! you're looking very close to fishing there, bb.

Heading out for the day now; Imma take a closer look later. I disagree with NP being in the clear; any scum can bandwagon to gain townie points, especially if the case on quaking is a legit one that they can't really avoid. I think it's more telling that quaking had a slight suspicion about NP than the other way around.
 
- There could've been a bit of @PikaMasterJesi and QP scumbuddying going on too. As Jabber picked up then, QP was attempting to shift Rainy's attention away from Jesi, which is telling. I also think that Jesi's shenanigans that led to quaking hammering himself is very suspicious. I'm not sure if anyone else agrees with me, but it comes off very artificial and not genuine to me.
He was trying to shift attention away from me? This is going to sound really stupid, but I never even noticed. I also wasn't thinking before placing my vote, because I hadn't been paying too much attention to the thread at the time and it didn't click that I was putting Quaking in hammer range. I regret having placed that vote.

Tunnel vision much? I haven't heard simsands discuss anything but my lynch since day 3 & 4. If you read back on day yesterday you will realize just how aggresive simsands is acting, which is not very town like. Why do we not discuss inactive players? Too many players don't open their mouth and that's only a convenience for scum. I've made myself pretty clear yesterday but that seems to be ignored. Those points simsands presented yesterday look like an attempt to help quakingpunch.
This is reading off as panicky to me. He knows he's the current lynch target, so he's trying to paint suspicion on simsands, accusing him of being aggressive and even placing what seems to me is an OMGUS vote on him. I don't quite see how simsands is being "aggressive", although it's always been hard for me to get a read on him.
 
I did get the points made against quaking, but I thought Robin was scummier. Quaking disappearing didn't help his case, though. I probably said it somewhere, but I was fine with both lynches.
Sure, you might have said that you were fine with both, since that's the textbook answer. But you very clearly were aggressively pushing for Robin instead of quaking, and that is suspicious since quaking flipped scum.

Regarding your points on NP, his interactions with quaking does make it unlikely that he will flip scum, but just remember that that doesn't automatically mean he's town, since there's an independent faction.
I am aware that there is an independent faction, but that is not an excuse to not find people likely town.

I'm still confident in the Robin lynch.
##VOTE: Robin Aisaga
You didn't seem this "confident" in the Robin lynch. Your responses to Scorched when he asked about future leads if quaking flipped town was with "There is still Robin". However, quaking flipped scum. There is still Robin, but there is also now many other leads that directly related to quaking. Why should we take a shot in the dark with Robin, when we can pursue people who have had connections to scum?

However! you're looking very close to fishing there, bb.
Why is there a problem with this fish? In fact, I wouldn't even call it a fish. You revealed that you had an info-gathering Ability regarding Senator's Orders on your own accord. This information is important so town can make more informed decisions about the Orders and it is vital that you reveal this immediately after you get the information, so that your Ability can be confirmed as truthful if/when you accurately reveal one of these Senate Orders ahead of time.

Heading out for the day now; Imma take a closer look later. I disagree with NP being in the clear; any scum can bandwagon to gain townie points, especially if the case on quaking is a legit one that they can't really avoid. I think it's more telling that quaking had a slight suspicion about NP than the other way around.
You are saying here that we shouldn't ever give townie points to any player because of WIFOM. By this logic, we shouldn't find anyone scum because they still could be town.

The case on quaking may have been legit, but there is absolutely no reason why it couldn't be avoided. It's literally scum's play to avoid buddy lynches and force town lynches. If scum become apathetic, they lose. NinjaPenguin did not need to vote for quaking and start the momentum if he was scum.

He was trying to shift attention away from me? This is going to sound really stupid, but I never even noticed. I also wasn't thinking before placing my vote, because I hadn't been paying too much attention to the thread at the time and it didn't click that I was putting Quaking in hammer range. I regret having placed that vote.
You seem to have been completely out of it this game. Putting quaking into hammer range isn't the only thing you've done and then responded with something similar to the above. :p

This is reading off as panicky to me. He knows he's the current lynch target, so he's trying to paint suspicion on simsands, accusing him of being aggressive and even placing what seems to me is an OMGUS vote on him. I don't quite see how simsands is being "aggressive", although it's always been hard for me to get a read on him.
Robin reads to me as frustrated. simsands is a completely legitimate suspicion. Robin could have a bit of OMGUS clouding his scumhunt, as could any town, but simsands was aggressive and it is scummy. Robin isn't just pushing things out of proportion. simsands aggressively pushed on Robin because he focused most of his posts on him and was deconstructing pretty much everything Robin said. Reread Day 4 and you will notice how hard simsands was going at Robin.
 
Tunnel vision much? I haven't heard simsands discuss anything but my lynch since day 3 & 4. If you read back on day yesterday you will realize just how aggresive simsands is acting, which is not very town like. Why do we not discuss inactive players? Too many players don't open their mouth and that's only a convenience for scum. I've made myself pretty clear yesterday but that seems to be ignored. Those points simsands presented yesterday look like an attempt to help quakingpunch.

##VOTE: simsands

Once again I don't fully understand why I'm suddenly a target. There's not much to defend about behaviour.

You might have noticed that I was gone most of day 3 and 4. When I got back, the quaking lynch was already in full motion. I didn't really find much to comment on, besides pushing for what I thought was a stronger lynch.
 
You seem to have been completely out of it this game. Putting quaking into hammer range isn't the only thing you've done and then responded with something similar to the above. :p
I have, this is true. I had a ton of schoolwork when this game started and I couldn't have been bothered to make a post. I don't know why I've suddenly become distant compared to the rest of my games.
 
Why is there a problem with this fish? In fact, I wouldn't even call it a fish. You revealed that you had an info-gathering Ability regarding Senator's Orders on your own accord. This information is important so town can make more informed decisions about the Orders and it is vital that you reveal this immediately after you get the information, so that your Ability can be confirmed as truthful if/when you accurately reveal one of these Senate Orders ahead of time.
I didn't say it was a problem. I also didn't say it was a fish, but maybe my use of that word was out of place. But something feels off to me whenever someone asks for information. Call it "pinging the scumdar," if you'd like. You're right in that there's no need for me to withhold information––so I won't. I almost feel as though you're trying to preempt my telling by asking about it ahead of time, to sort of gain cred or something by appearing to ask about something that there's really no need to ask about, since I have no reason to withhold it once I get online.
You are saying here that we shouldn't ever give townie points to any player because of WIFOM. By this logic, we shouldn't find anyone scum because they still could be town.

The case on quaking may have been legit, but there is absolutely no reason why it couldn't be avoided. It's literally scum's play to avoid buddy lynches and force town lynches. If scum become apathetic, they lose. NinjaPenguin did not need to vote for quaking and start the momentum if he was scum.
Nono, I just (mis)read your post as giving NP so much towncred as to clear him. I disagree with clearing him. Townie points are fine, w/e; I don't particularly think NP's scum rn either. He's just not clear by any stretch of the word. :p

Also ...
##VOTE: PIKAMASTERJESI
I'm not really down for either a Robin or a sim lynch. I think if it has to come down to one or the other, I'd go with sim over Robin, but I don't think it's a one-or-the-other thing. Jesi looks legitimately scummy to me––it's all very well to say that you don't know why you've been distant lately, but as town you're usually much more involved. I'm sorta hesitant because I can't remember if we've ever seen your scummeta, so the entire reason you've been distant could very well be an IRL thing, but I feel like town!you would contribute a bit more when posting, even if it is agreeing with everyone, as opposed to just apologizing for your absence.
 
This person has been on my scum list for quite a while due to some earlier things, namely the vote on Rainyman123 despite not thinking they were scum, post 181 and then backpedal on that post in post 187. Later on, she drops in on a couple of times for posts that add nothing to conversation, lamenting the lack of effort or care, but not doing anything to rectify that. Additionally others might not, but I am inclined to consider post 343 a claim request from TDK despite the fact that Jesi later decides role claims are not such a good thing.

Beyond that, I also noticed the quakingpunch73 attention shift from you, and while the vote hammer could have been an honest mistake, it also may not have been. I haven't counted that with much weight, I have considered it.

##VOTE: PikaMasterJesi
 
I have a problem with the case on Jesi because of how she panicked from Quaking's self vote. It what made me think that if quaking somehow flips town then Jesi is probably scum being panicked by that self vote, fearing it might have something to do with quaking's ability to hurt scum. But that theory is not valid anymore, so I don't understand now why would she be so panicked from quaking's self vote if both of them are in the same boat. It's also weird thing to do on quaking's part since hammering right after his scumbuddy's vote paints that scumbuddy as scummy for others.

Robin is scummy, but like others have said, his town meta is scummy in a somewhat similar way, which makes it hard to determine whether he is actually scum this time or not.
However, the points on simsands seems a bit stronger, so I'll have a deeper look in their posts to make more thoughts on that case.
 
QUOTE="Jabberwock, post: 2846120, member: 107419"]I didn't say it was a problem.[/quote]
If you weren't implying it was a problem, then why did you bring it up?

I also didn't say it was a fish, but maybe my use of that word was out of place. But something feels off to me whenever someone asks for information. Call it "pinging the scumdar," if you'd like.
You should probably figure out why it feels off, since I think it more depends on the situation.

You're right in that there's no need for me to withhold information––so I won't. I almost feel as though you're trying to preempt my telling by asking about it ahead of time, to sort of gain cred or something by appearing to ask about something that there's really no need to ask about, since I have no reason to withhold it once I get online.
I'm just making sure that you do actually do it. I don't think you did it Day 2 until after you got asked. :p

I have a problem with the case on Jesi because of how she panicked from Quaking's self vote. It what made me think that if quaking somehow flips town then Jesi is probably scum being panicked by that self vote, fearing it might have something to do with quaking's ability to hurt scum. But that theory is not valid anymore, so I don't understand now why would she be so panicked from quaking's self vote if both of them are in the same boat. It's also weird thing to do on quaking's part since hammering right after his scumbuddy's vote paints that scumbuddy as scummy for others.

I think the biggest thing for me is that the panic feels artificial. Especially this. "I'm removing my vote" is most strange imo. That is a good point about the closeness, though. Jesi may have legitimately not been following, and quaking just took up the opportunity not really thinking about the repercussions. That's a bit WIFOMy though, so I'm not gonna put too much stock into it.
 
You didn't seem this "confident" in the Robin lynch. Your responses to Scorched when he asked about future leads if quaking flipped town was with "There is still Robin". However, quaking flipped scum. There is still Robin, but there is also now many other leads that directly related to quaking. Why should we take a shot in the dark with Robin, when we can pursue people who have had connections to scum?
Right now, I consider the cases on Robin and Jesi similar. They both put Quaking in hammer range (though Robin did it earlier), they both have posting patterns completely different to their meta (though Robin has lurked more than Jesi), their posts' content are completely different (Robin is more OMGUSy than before, Jesi contributes nothing, where she used to point out simple scumtells), and they're using a completely new brand of AtE in most of their posts (Robin's is more subtle, Jesi's is very direct.)
When it comes to those two cases, I'd personally prefer Robin, since he also had his "I voted for that Senate Order so give me towncred" post and him attacking us for the Blakers lynch even though he didn't use his vote (he lurked throughout that day, so it would have been easy to vote at some point).
 
Right now, I consider the cases on Robin and Jesi similar. They both put Quaking in hammer range (though Robin did it earlier), they both have posting patterns completely different to their meta (though Robin has lurked more than Jesi), their posts' content are completely different (Robin is more OMGUSy than before, Jesi contributes nothing, where she used to point out simple scumtells), and they're using a completely new brand of AtE in most of their posts (Robin's is more subtle, Jesi's is very direct.)
When it comes to those two cases, I'd personally prefer Robin, since he also had his "I voted for that Senate Order so give me towncred" post and him attacking us for the Blakers lynch even though he didn't use his vote (he lurked throughout that day, so it would have been easy to vote at some point).

I definitly refrain from lurking, like others I don't always have time to make a meaningful post. I'm usually around on Pokébeach to check TCG News & Discussion. I can be a bit on the OMGUSY side, but as long as my arguments make a point I don't think this should be a huge issue. I didn't vote for Blakers because in my believe he was town and an opportunity to place my vote on rainyman didn't occur during that short time span. This makes me scummier than players that pushed his lynch at the end of the day? Nice logic mate.
 
If you weren't implying it was a problem, then why did you bring it up?
I guess because you only rarely get things brought up against you, and I wanted to see your response. Whether you're town or not, you are leading the group atm. If you're scum, that could go very badly for us, since I don't think anyone is going to look into you as a suspect until either conclusive proof (read: on the level of a seer or another investigative Ability) comes up, or we're at MYLO and end up considering all possibilities anyway.
I'm just making sure that you do actually do it. I don't think you did it Day 2 until after you got asked. :p
I think that was the day I didn't learn anything new off the Ability. :x If that's your reason, then, fair enough.
I definitly refrain from lurking, like others I don't always have time to make a meaningful post. I'm usually around on Pokébeach to check TCG News & Discussion. I can be a bit on the OMGUSY side, but as long as my arguments make a point I don't think this should be a huge issue. I didn't vote for Blakers because in my believe he was town and an opportunity to place my vote on rainyman didn't occur during that short time span. This makes me scummier than players that pushed his lynch at the end of the day? Nice logic mate.
Define "an opportunity to place your vote".
 
Right now, I consider the cases on Robin and Jesi similar. They both put Quaking in hammer range (though Robin did it earlier), they both have posting patterns completely different to their meta (though Robin has lurked more than Jesi), their posts' content are completely different (Robin is more OMGUSy than before, Jesi contributes nothing, where she used to point out simple scumtells), and they're using a completely new brand of AtE in most of their posts (Robin's is more subtle, Jesi's is very direct.)
When it comes to those two cases, I'd personally prefer Robin, since he also had his "I voted for that Senate Order so give me towncred" post and him attacking us for the Blakers lynch even though he didn't use his vote (he lurked throughout that day, so it would have been easy to vote at some point).
I honestly wouldn't see them similar. I don't think it's problematic that Robin put quaking into "hammer range", as by that logic, you need to find everyone suspicious for putting a player into hammer range. My problem with Jesi is how she responded to being called out, and to when quaking voted himself. How is Robin's posting pattern and content completely different to their meta? Isn't he normally OMGUSy? I wouldn't say this brand of AtE that you are referring to is new or scummy on both accounts.

I guess because you only rarely get things brought up against you, and I wanted to see your response. Whether you're town or not, you are leading the group atm. If you're scum, that could go very badly for us, since I don't think anyone is going to look into you as a suspect until either conclusive proof (read: on the level of a seer or another investigative Ability) comes up, or we're at MYLO and end up considering all possibilities anyway.
Yeah fair enough. The only reason I'd ever be leading the group would be if a) there are sheep and b) if noone else tries to scumhunt. (Fortunately, there's a few people scumhunting right now.)

I think that was the day I didn't learn anything new off the Ability. :x If that's your reason, then, fair enough.
Yup it was.
 
Yeah fair enough. The only reason I'd ever be leading the group would be if a) there are sheep and b) if noone else tries to scumhunt. (Fortunately, there's a few people scumhunting right now.)
To clarify, I wouldn't want to be leading a group, but I end up having to for the above reasons.
 
I have a problem with the case on Jesi because of how she panicked from Quaking's self vote. It what made me think that if quaking somehow flips town then Jesi is probably scum being panicked by that self vote, fearing it might have something to do with quaking's ability to hurt scum. But that theory is not valid anymore, so I don't understand now why would she be so panicked from quaking's self vote if both of them are in the same boat. It's also weird thing to do on quaking's part since hammering right after his scumbuddy's vote paints that scumbuddy as scummy for others.

I agree with this.

I think the biggest thing for me is that the panic feels artificial. Especially this. "I'm removing my vote" is most strange imo. That is a good point about the closeness, though. Jesi may have legitimately not been following, and quaking just took up the opportunity not really thinking about the repercussions. That's a bit WIFOMy though, so I'm not gonna put too much stock into it.

I believe Jesi did a similar thing last game, though she was the one to hammer that time around.
 
Since I find no time to do this myself I would appreciate if someone could prove or disprove Robin's change of meta with quotes from previous games, as it seems like some people recall them acting the same and other recall they act very different from other games.
 
Yeah fair enough. The only reason I'd ever be leading the group would be if a) there are sheep and b) if noone else tries to scumhunt. (Fortunately, there's a few people scumhunting right now.)
To clarify, I wouldn't want to be leading a group, but I end up having to for the above reasons.
I wanna quickly point out that you were leading the town in XXXV, when you were scum. You were often leading lynches and suggesting lynches to pursue.
 
Day 5 Vote Count

Robin Aisaga 2 (simsands, NinjaPenguin, )
simsands 0 (Robin Aisaga, )
PikaMasterJesi 1 (Jabberwock, Vracken, )
Ninja Penguin 0

Day 5 will end on Christmas Day at 4:30pm AEST

6 Votes are required to lynch.

Bandwagon Breakdown is in effect. The most recent vote on all players is worth 0.
 
Since I find no time to do this myself I would appreciate if someone could prove or disprove Robin's change of meta with quotes from previous games, as it seems like some people recall them acting the same and other recall they act very different from other games.
I second this. I barely have time to make a proper case for today. >~>

I wanna quickly point out that you were leading the town in XXXV, when you were scum. You were often leading lynches and suggesting lynches to pursue.
I'd like to point out that I only end up leading town when everyone else is apathetic or aren't scumhunting. It's not because of my alignment.
 
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