Finished Mafia XXXVIII: Battle for the Republic (Congratulations Darth Sidious!)

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Some corrections/elaborations/additions to post 675:
Day 1- IIRC, Sceptile never claimed, or really did anything to defend himself. This was a main factor of him being lynched, not a "scummy claim".
Day 2- TGK's result said that the only Jedi to be targeted was the kill, not senator.
Whoops, sorry for misrecalling those things! I did mean Jedi, not Senator. >.>

A bit of FoS on bb for these aforementioned inaccuracies and a bit of editorialization.
I wouldn't lie if I was town, and I would be stupid to purposely deceive as scum considering how someone can just go back and check if they would like, so I don't think your FOS is particularly justified. ;)

I think we should wait before a claim. We still have plenty of time.
I don't understand why "we have plenty time" means we shouldn't claim. Unless you've got a better lynch option, I'm pretty sure one of simsands or Reinforce (Robin) are scum and I want to figure it out.
 
No, Jesi or SF are not on my list because they didn't do anything particularly scummy this game. And I don't expect Rainyman123 to write a full case but a little more than what he posted now should be expected from town players new or not. Who is your main candidate for today's lynch BBninjas?

He doesn't really show much interest in anyone besides Rainy. After bb says that he wants to lynch Robin in the following post, he disappears and doesn't appear until a couple days later.

##VOTE: rainyman123

I also apologize for being a little inactive, my stance on Rainy hasn't changed thus I will vote for him, be careful not to hammer if you want to continue discussion. In my opinion the amount of posts shouldn't be taken too much in account. I think that the argument that BBninjas is playing scummy because he posts a lot is nonsense. I don't see him trying to control the situation or something like that. Looking back at SceptileMaster's last post made me suspicious. He ''just'' wants to lynch Rainy and that doesn't sit right with me. He just left after making that post.

He then shows up and puts Rainy at L-1.

Rainyman's claim has two mistakes in it. It doesn't look like a legit town or safe claim. He could be indy. I don't find that unlikely and I want to find out. I also don't think Rainy is more helpful or trustworthy as SceptileMaster who was only there to discuss the policy lynch and went inactive later on. Everyone changing their votes to SceptileMaster is actually a bit scummy if you ask me. Also TGK's relation to Rainy is rather dubious. Rainy's lynch could really give us some handy info and leads. But it doesn't seem like it's going to happen so I might as well unvote...

I also think Blaker's comment is noticeably scummy.

Him assuming that Rainy would be indy is odd, and could potentially be a slip, if Robin knew that Rainy wasn't mafia.

Man I was just about to post something... And I do check Pokébeach often even when I don't have time to post.

I already suspected Double Suspect could give town something similar to another lynch. So I'm glad I voted for the senate order

I should've placed my vote on Rainyman yesterday once Blaker's claimed his role. Could it be that yesterday's last minute lynch was the work of scum/indie? Ninjapenguin and Jabberwock do you think it was the right call to let Blakers be lynched instead of Rainyman by the randomiser?

This post is filled with attempts to get town cred. Complaining about the lynch. It's been repeated multiple times, but Robin had a lot of time to do something about it, if he didn't like how things were looking.

Yes that's why I regret not voting for Rainyman



Ok? You could call it unnecessary. Your post may posses the same purpose it doesn't really have much to say either. Don't you have something to say about yesterday, the senate order or the night kill?

This sounds like he's confused over why the NK didn't happen and is trying to fish for why it failed.

Constant requests? Dude... I only asked Scattered Mind if he had anything to say about the night kill. And those other two things you mentioned simply are not true. You really seem to be pushing it and that is scummy. I will vote place my vote on you later if you stick with these vague arguments.

Here he's threatening NP to unvote him. Also OMGUS.

I didn't pay enough attention at the remaining time and the vote count. I was planning to place my vote but I didn't get the moment. And sure it takes 15 seconds to write "##VOTE: Rainy" but placing a vote without anything to add is always taken the wrong way by other players. My checking thread / posting behaviour hasn't changed that much I think. Maybe you haven't been monitoring my profile like in other games so you came with a different conclusion.

He's being overly cautious. A blank vote is not necessarily bad, especially at the end of the day, when there's plenty of reasons that have already been presented.

PikaMasterJesi, I get that school is a priority, but if you have time to make a small post like the one above. Please give us something that is slightly contributional even when it's just one small read.

I agree with BBninjas that QuakingPunch is a better lynch candidate for today. I for one don't think TGK's claim was a made up. I have to believe he used some kind of common sense when he claimed no Jedi was targeted by an ability. Any one of us could've proven him wrong. But TGK probably thought it was save because the message came from Squirtle Squad.

Some fair points have been made against QuakingPunch. But I admit the case he made on NinjaPenguin has some merit. So far NinjaPenguin has only been pushing lynches on players that flipped Jedi. quakingpunch's behaviour does seem out of place though. What convinced me he is likely scum is the sudden claim. And that ability he has looks too strong. I'm going to place my double vote and that will put quakingpunch in the red zone, be careful if you don't want to end day 4 early.

##VOTE: quakingpunch73

He's going along with the quaking wagon, but is still trying to give him some town points. This is also the second time he's put someone close to a lynch, this time very early on in the day.

Hm okay fair point. He could vote himself to end the day.

##UNVOTE

Then he backpedals when he's called out for it.

Playing slightly on the offensive side is part of my playstyle, I don't recall that to be different from previous games. That's also why I hear panicking and nervous a lot. But in reality I'm sitting behind my desk quite comfortably.. Also I don't think my counter arguments were to be called OMGUS. it's not like I immediatly wanted to push a lynch on NinjaPenguin. I didn't agree, so I spoke up.

That's also why I will point out your scummy behaviour. To me it looks like you're trying to ignore the case on quakingpunch. ''His ability could be indie'' is not going to clear him. Did you read his ability? He trains at the Jedi Temple. Would you rather lynch a player that looks suspicious or one that looks scummy because of their claim, contradictions, lies and facts.

I have a good feeling about quaking's lynch. Thus I will replace my vote. ##VOTE: quakingpunch73

Once again, he starts attacking the players who are accusing him. He then proceeds to put quaking in hammer range, attempting to cut the day short.

##Unvote
##Vote: Quakingpunch73


Thanks for answering my praise to end the day early, Jesi.

We later on see that this is exactly what quaking wanted.

Tunnel vision much? I haven't heard simsands discuss anything but my lynch since day 3 & 4. If you read back on day yesterday you will realize just how aggresive simsands is acting, which is not very town like. Why do we not discuss inactive players? Too many players don't open their mouth and that's only a convenience for scum. I've made myself pretty clear yesterday but that seems to be ignored. Those points simsands presented yesterday look like an attempt to help quakingpunch.

##VOTE: simsands

Once again I don't fully understand why I'm suddenly a target. There's not much to defend about behaviour.

Some more OMGUS.


Since scattered asked me to, I went through some old games and looked for Robin's previous reactions to pressure.

@Camoclone is that sarcasm, ouch :(

I agree with Celever. I don't see a very strong case there TGK. It looks like you're trying to save your own, I understand that. I'm doing it as well, Nothing personal but here goes my first vote: (I don't want to use my ability this early) Sorry if that's scumtalking and or AtE but I kinda like doing that :p

##VOTE: Thegrovylekid

Not sure if I still like this game however...

I'm of to sleep now. Time Zones in my disadvantage I guess. Thanks Clever and Scattered mind for your words. I don't feel comfortable going to sleep without activating my ability though. Sad times...

They weren't kidding when they said: everything you say may be used against you in court

EVERYTHING I SAY IS WRONG ARRGGG. why am I still replying.

Good good, although someone still seems to have a tunnel vision -____-

Now please let me lurk for a while. I'm getting more nervous with every word I type :p

*Hides

You say I'm just clarifying matters about the serie to appeal to Phoenix Wright fans, I'm not. What use would it have to appeal to two or three people. Getting to know roles has been quite useful so far. By knowing Dahlia Hawthorne was also capable of spirit channeling we could have prevented Mia and Maya from exploiting their role to her for example. And another example is the apparant thief figure. As in Ace Attorney there are several thiefs (Kay Faraday, DeMasque and Filch) None of them have a murderer role in the AA series. This will certainly be useful information at some point. Also your stating that I'm trying to be popular as a fact, you don't speculate much do you?

And yes, the role high prosecutor isn't entirely clear. No one else has been confirmed town either though. So I don't see the point in mentioning it.

In Order in the Court, he was often joking things off, he's acting a bit sarcastic and frustrated.

I will scumhunt but I don't like to make it too obvious. And let's be honest, the chances of there being a good and convincing case during the first day is not something to expect. That's why I said I'm 'probably' not going to vote.

Oh and hey Camoclone, welcome back. Thanks for the convincing case and stuff.

Here how about you analyse this @PikaMasterJesi :

##VOTE: PikaMasterJesi

I gotta sleep now, maybe you could use some of that so called patience, something that's very rare among Werewolf players...

Also in the meantime you could present your last two questions as actual questions, or perhaps make alternatives with less gibberish :p

Oh, I LOVE scum hunting <3 Now that is out of the way, be my guest and make up some more reasons to vote me that simply are not true. Also you do realise that certain attitudes can be used for scum hunting?No?

I'm not mad, I'm absolutely FABULOUS

You asked me what my stance is on Bandwagoning.

Ideally, a player should always explain their vote instead of simply agreeing with one or another. But when someone is in a tricky situation or lacks time and motivation to make their own case, it is a tempting thing to do. So, in my opinion it's certainly not a good habit, but I can see why it happens. And just because someone is a hypocrite shouldn't mean they may not attend other players for similar mistakes.

But you Camoclone are the master of hypocrites! Just remember what you said to Eevee. I have three votes for the record including yours.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Camoclone

In Celever's School Grades, he did reveal later on that he was playing an act, but we still see the same sarcasm from the previous game. There is a slight bit of OMGUS against Camo, but it doesn't feel a bit like the "I'm not scummy, you are!" act he's been doing this game.


So, points against Robin(/Reinforce)

  • He's playing carefully. Overthinking his actions.
  • He's panicking from pressure and attacks the players pressuring him.
  • Attempts to end the day early at multiple occasions.
  • Tries to get town cred.
  • Fishing for information.
  • Potential early game slip.
Did I miss anything? Since Robin isn't here anymore to defend, I'd appreciate more thoughts/opinions instead.
 
I don't understand why "we have plenty time" means we shouldn't claim. Unless you've got a better lynch option, I'm pretty sure one of simsands or Reinforce (Robin) are scum and I want to figure it out.
I would like to wait a bit before claiming, since it gives scum more information. The day is new, and there are plenty of other people who are scummy (e.g. Dos, scattered, and Vracken). I want to wait to see where the consensus lies before a claim. If it lies towards lynching RF and simsands, they should claim. If it lies somewhere else, claiming is useless.
I wouldn't lie if I was town, and I would be stupid to purposely deceive as scum considering how someone can just go back and check if they would like, so I don't think your FOS is particularly justified. ;)
You editorialized much more than I recall you doing in previous games.

@simsands Most of that case looks good. The one thing to note is that in Celever's School Grades, he may have said it was just an act to save himself. Other than that, I agree with all of your points.
 
I don't understand why "we have plenty time" means we shouldn't claim. Unless you've got a better lynch option, I'm pretty sure one of simsands or Reinforce (Robin) are scum and I want to figure it out.

Actually, thinking about it more, I came up with a few fors and against:

FOR
- We get information early on a wagon that I presume will be a likely contender for today's lynch, which saves time.
- If Reinforce has a role that is less likely scum, then it that is helpful to know early on so that town don't waste their time focusing (or tunneling!) on them.
- Due to the Senate Order, it's better to claim information earlier rather than later today, so if anyone does drop any votes, then players wouldn't come to regret their vote if something is particularly telling.

AGAINST
- There could be better lynch options meaning that Reinforce wouldn't need to claim
- Someone might come forward to clear Reinforce so that they wouldn't need to claim

But... for those who are anti-claiming, we're reaching that point in the game where scum normally would know - or have a pretty good idea - of most player's roles. Town, on the other hand, really doesn't have all too much information.
 
That seem like a weird excuse since i think you usually are more careful on your choice of words
I also don't reallly buy dos' statement. That looks like a slip. It's not just the use of the word IF, but also the "like you said" part.
If you have read about it there is no reason to write that sentence.
You guys are taking this too seriously. >.> So I put "if" in my statement, I can sorta see how that would be seen as a bad thing, but think about it. Assuming I did mess up and "if" meant something else, then what exactly does that mean? I don't see any major scumtells there.

And scattered I just put "like you said" because, well, he did say it.
 
I would like to wait a bit before claiming, since it gives scum more information. The day is new, and there are plenty of other people who are scummy (e.g. Dos, scattered, and Vracken). I want to wait to see where the consensus lies before a claim. If it lies towards lynching RF and simsands, they should claim. If it lies somewhere else, claiming is useless.
Why are scattered and Vracken scummy? I don't recall you mentioning either of them as being scummy until now.

You editorialized much more than I recall you doing in previous games.
Okay?

I'm taking a look at simsand's case now. ^.^
 
You guys are taking this too seriously. >.> So I put "if" in my statement, I can sorta see how that would be seen as a bad thing, but think about it. Assuming I did mess up and "if" meant something else, then what exactly does that mean? I don't see any major scumtells there.

And scattered I just put "like you said" because, well, he did say it.
I don't think it is at all a major scumtell, but it definitely pings the scumdar.
 
So, points against Robin(/Reinforce)

  • He's playing carefully. Overthinking his actions.
  • He's panicking from pressure and attacks the players pressuring him.
  • Attempts to end the day early at multiple occasions.
  • Tries to get town cred.
  • Fishing for information.
  • Potential early game slip.
Did I miss anything? Since Robin isn't here anymore to defend, I'd appreciate more thoughts/opinions instead.

If that Senate Order was in play, I would be voting Robin right now...

I don't really think that the "ending the day early" thing on Robin is particularly telling. I think that L-2 is a pretty fine range, whereas L-1 is more the potentially scummy range. I'm also not really sure if the cautious playing is just a change in meta, or if it's because Robin was scum. Also, where was the fish? I think I missed it in your case.

Anyways, I do think the connection to Rainy is pretty telling, especially considering how quaking was playing, and I'm glad you did a meta-check, since that over-aggressiveness is actually pretty different. That slip is also interesting, albeit a minor tell.

The thing that messes with me is the fact that Robin was for quaking's lynch and called him out at one point, which both are pretty townie for me. Interestingly, I was reading them as neutral leaning-scum before quaking was lynched.
 
But... for those who are anti-claiming, we're reaching that point in the game where scum normally would know - or have a pretty good idea - of most player's roles. Town, on the other hand, really doesn't have all too much information.
Last game, I (as a member of the scumteam) had absolutely no idea on anyone's roles, as anyone who had fully claimed died fairly quickly afterwards. There's nothing that says that this game is any different.
Editorializing on a game recap is scummy, as an uninformed player will generally agree with those statements when you present them as facts. The FoS is not major, just a kind of future reference.
Why are scattered and Vracken scummy? I don't recall you mentioning either of them as being scummy
Vracken hasn't contributed much of anything this game (and has been pretty inactive), which strikes me as odd for him. Scattered is focusing a lot on old and not very relevant questions while also barely utilizing his vote, which he did as scum last game (and doesn't generally do as town).
You guys are taking this too seriously. >.> So I put "if" in my statement, I can sorta see how that would be seen as a bad thing, but think about it. Assuming I did mess up and "if" meant something else, then what exactly does that mean? I don't see any major scumtells there.

And scattered I just put "like you said" because, well, he did say it.
When you say "if this is true" when you know it is, it's a major dumbtell. I don't see it as a slip or anything (and I find it strange that others' are treating it as one), but it certainly is strange.
 
I don't really think that the "ending the day early" thing on Robin is particularly telling. I think that L-2 is a pretty fine range, whereas L-1 is more the potentially scummy range.
He put Quaking at L-1 with his double vote weight.
Also, where was the fish?
That was him wanting to see how his kill went wrong. It's not really a fish, but is definitely a scumtell.
 
  • He's playing carefully. Overthinking his actions.
  • He's panicking from pressure and attacks the players pressuring him.
  • Attempts to end the day early at multiple occasions.
  • Tries to get town cred.
  • Fishing for information.
  • Potential early game slip.
From what I can remember about Robin's previous plays, the two bolded points seem neutral imo. Other than that though, that's not a bad case.
When you say "if this is true" when you know it is, it's a major dumbtell. I don't see it as a slip or anything (and I find it strange that others' are treating it as one), but it certainly is strange.
How is it dumbtelling when I then use the info I'm supposedly dumbtelling about in a point against you?
 
Last game, I (as a member of the scumteam) had absolutely no idea on anyone's roles, as anyone who had fully claimed died fairly quickly afterwards. There's nothing that says that this game is any different.
That is interesting, since most of the time when I've been scum, I would end up having a pretty good idea on most people's roles.

Vracken hasn't contributed much of anything this game (and has been pretty inactive), which strikes me as odd for him.
Really? Looking back, they contributed on the quaking and Jesi lynches to some extent, and was hunting TGK in the early days.

Scattered is focusing a lot on old and not very relevant questions while also barely utilizing his vote, which he did as scum last game (and doesn't generally do as town)
I don't really agree with you here either, although I wasn't paying attention to him this last game. Both @Vracken and @scattered mind should definitely comment on this though.

When you say "if this is true" when you know it is, it's a major dumbtell. I don't see it as a slip or anything (and I find it strange that others' are treating it as one), but it certainly is strange.
"Major dumbtell" is an overstatement.

He put Quaking at L-1 with his double vote weight.
Whoops, I missed that too! Sorry, yeah, that hammering range thing is scummy then. >~>

That was him wanting to see how his kill went wrong. It's not really a fish, but is definitely a scumtell.
Ah okay. I do not think that is "definitely a scumtell", as both town and scum will want to know the answer to that question, albeit for different reasons. Town wants to know, because a player could be cleared as town or be pinned as scum from it.

From what I can remember about Robin's previous plays, the two bolded points seem neutral imo. Other than that though, that's not a bad case./QUOTE]
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing meta-wise. However, for me, the telling difference in the posts simsands quoted is that Robin was more aggressively OMGUSy this game, whereas they were more sarcastic OMGUS in past games. I agree that they are generally panicking and cautious, perhaps a little more cautious this game.
 
Well... I see the guy I replaced is on the chopping block. I've been in this situation several times, and like then, all I can say is that I have no way of knowing what my predecessor was thinking so I'm not sure how I can "defend" any of those quotes of his posts or the cases presented so far. I haven't been following the thread so I will read back.
 
You guys are taking this too seriously. >.> So I put "if" in my statement, I can sorta see how that would be seen as a bad thing, but think about it. Assuming I did mess up and "if" meant something else, then what exactly does that mean? I don't see any major scumtells there.

And scattered I just put "like you said" because, well, he did say it.
Hence why I didn't say much else, it is just something to indicatea small fraction of possibilities
 
Vracken hasn't contributed much of anything this game (and has been pretty inactive), which strikes me as odd for him. Scattered is focusing a lot on old and not very relevant questions while also barely utilizing his vote, which he did as scum last game (and doesn't generally do as town).

Examples? I don't know what questions you consider irrelevant.
 
Examples? I don't know what questions you consider irrelevant.
The one regarding SF's "Oh dear", which you asked for three times (similarly to last game) and the "respond to this one minor point" post, which you've asked simsands for twice. It's strange that you're focusing on things so far in the past, and not like normal scattered. In addition, you're not assembling your questions into reads and/or cases, which town scattered normally does by Day 4 or 5.
Ah okay. I do not think that is "definitely a scumtell", as both town and scum will want to know the answer to that question, albeit for different reasons. Town wants to know, because a player could be cleared as town or be pinned as scum from it.
That's a strange backpedal. Just one page ago, you said "good catch!"
 
The one regarding SF's "Oh dear", which you asked for three times (similarly to last game) and the "respond to this one minor point" post, which you've asked simsands for twice. It's strange that you're focusing on things so far in the past, and not like normal scattered. In addition, you're not assembling your questions into reads and/or cases, which town scattered normally does by Day 4 or 5.

That's a strange backpedal. Just one page ago, you said "good catch!"
Good catch does not mean it's a definite scumtell. It can be a tell, but I never said it is a "definite tell" nor do I think it is a "definite tell".
 
Because I messed up the quotes...

That's a strange backpedal. Just one page ago, you said "good catch!"
Good catch does not mean it's a definite scumtell. It can be a tell, but I never said it is a "definite tell" nor do I think it is a "definite tell".
 
Good catch does not mean it's a definite scumtell. It can be a tell, but I never said it is a "definite tell" nor do I think it is a "definite tell".
What did you mean in saying it, if you feel it was not really a tell?
 
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