My Concern with the Direction of the Game thus far...

[Card Slinger J]

I got a really bad feeling that the Pokemon TCG is heading in the wrong direction, and I'm talking about being as bad as Yu-Gi-Oh! was in the early 2000's, that's what. I know I'm ranting however I have a very good reason for doing so.

I know I made a thread about this before but after playing at Battle Roads however I'm convinced that Stage 2 decks especially with the nerfing of Rare Candy from the Black/White rules are going the way of the do-do but not entirely though.

The sad part is that most Stage 2's will either just be tech's but not main attackers or just trade bait for people who just collect the cards. I'm seeing more BBP (Big Basic Pokemon) and Stage 1's seeing more play than Stage 2's in general because of the speed of setting up Stage 1's and Basics faster than Stage 2's. The game is becoming all about speed now, If you think the format will slow down in HGSS-On you are sadly mistaken.

For HGSS-On, butlerforhire said it best on HeyTrainer.org. The Genies, Zekrom and Reshiram variants, and fast Stage 1's like Donphan Prime, Cincinno, and Yanmega Prime will take over the metagame and make Stage 2's virtually unplayable without Vileplume UD and Gothitelle. The HGSS-On format will be uncannily similiar to Unlimited circa 2001. Here are some card comparisons between HGSS-On and the Unlimited circa 2001 format:

* Cleffa HGSS = Cleffa (Neo Genesis)
* Tyrogue HGSS = Tyrogue (Neo Destiny)
* DCE = DCE (Base Set)
* Junk Arm = Item Finder (Base Set)
* PlusPower = PlusPower (Base Set)
* Pokemon Catcher = Gust of Wind (Base Set)
* Vileplume = Dark Vileplume (Team Rocket)
* Professor Juniper = Professor Oak (Base Set)
* PONT = Professor Elm (Neo Genesis)
* Pokemon Communication = Pokemon Trader (Base Set)
* Rare Candy = Pokemon Breeder (Base Set)
* The Genies/Reshiram/Zekrom = Sneasel/Team Rocket's Zapdos/Mewtwo/Electabuzz, etc. (or BBP = BBP)
* Cincinno = Wigglytuff (Jungle)
* Feraligatr Prime/Emboar (Ability) = Blastoise (Base Set)
* Reuniclus = Alakazam (Base Set)
* Typhlosion Prime = Typhlosion (Neo Genesis)
* Steelix Prime = Steelix (Neo Genesis)

I don't like how TPCi/P!P is taking skill away from the game to make the Pokemon TCG more luck based to the point where whoever goes first wins because of being able to play your stuff on the first turn If you go first. Whether If Japan is running out of ideas for Pokemon cards to resort to reprinting old cards disguised as new cards is beyond me.

We all know Pokemon Catcher is bad for the format (everybody runs 4 Junk Arm and 4 Catcher I guess and whoever gets a faster setup and plays Catcher will win 99.9% of the time) however what do you do to balance a card that is so broken it is ban worthy? Print more cards that are more broken and ban worthy. HGSS-On some say is expected to do well for U.S. Nationals and Worlds next season but start to rear it's ugly head by the start of Cities in the 2011-2012 season.

You want to know something that I fear the most of what Japan could print next in future Black & White sets? Remember Aerodactyl from Fossil that shutdown Poke-Powers back in the day? Notice a new Pokemon known as Archeops that's like Aerodactyl? Fear that it might have an Ability that negates all Abilities? Yeah, why repeat history?

I fear that attendances will polarise as the competitive players restrict themselves to the "money" tournaments buying/borrowing a deck loaded with broken trainers that can be mastered in a short period. Sounds like Yu-Gi-Oh! back in early to mid 2000 much?

I also predict that at some time in the not too distant future the player going first will have restrictions placed upon what they can do as even the Japanese format won't stand up to who-goes-first-wins for long. God forbid a Restricted List that hurts deck consistency like Yu-Gi-Oh! uggghhh, at least errata or ban the cards If they are too powerful but then again we have TPCi/P!P delaying them a set or two.

Let the flame war begin I guess.... -____-

 

[catutie]

-_- there are plenty of stage 2 decks that are contenders for BDIF, blastgatr, magneboar, machamp.

all have 2 stage 2's. rare cand wasnt changed that much. so what that you cant get your precious pokemon out T1, deal with it. just because you actually have to WAIT to play your main poke doesnt mean that it becomes luck based either.

some decks will just be better than others. thus tiers, and its always been semi luck based. with SP it was all about who got there crobats first and there cyrus, who ever got it first won. its all about consistancy, if your opponent can get set up T2 and you are still struggling T4...well there is your winner. its not luck its how well made it is...as it always has been...

also yes...everything is pretty much a reprint now of older cards. they are trying to take a step away from the luxchomp fast set up to a slower game that is more strategy based and depends on when you play what. its not even that bad, if you can make a consistant deck that can get set up at least T3 you should be fine. sure there still is the weakness problems but everything seems to be balancing itself out, all the BDIF are weak to eachother (donphan>magneboar>blastgatr>reshiram) and they balance out.

i for one look forward to this format...

 

[Godzillian]

^ Don't forget T-Tar. Even Donphan Prime won't be able to OHKO T-Tar, and T-Tar gets past Donphan's body with its Power Claw FTW.

And you can't really compare Stage 2s with SP Pokemon when we're about to change formats so quickly... this format's meta is different from next format's meta, so your Battle Road observations have less of an impact than if they were made next rotation's BRs/tourneys.

But yah, I do agree that Stage 1s and Basics/Legendaries will rule the meta, while Stage 2s will struggle to claim the spotlight. That doesn't really mean that Stage 2s won't be as good. As I stated, T-Tar Toolbox will be a good contender, since it can utilize Bouffalant (RDL counter), Zoroark (Reshiram/Zekrom/RDL/almost-anything-with-epic-attacks counter), Mandibuzz (Stage 1 super sniper next format), Umbreon (not rlly, but might as well include it). A good Floatoise list w/ Donphan Prime tech can be pretty fast too.

@ Catutie: Machamp would include Donphan, so it'd be "Donchamp". Kinda falls into his "Donphan = Stage 1 = GG for Stage 2s" opinion.
Also, are you implying that SP Decks would be less strategic than HGSS-on decks? I beg to differ - SP decks are much more strategic than you may realize. My friend would go gg-ragequit on you for saying that SP needs no strategy. HGSS-on decks focus on who can counter what, and who can do more damage output. SP decks focus on breaking your opponent to tiny little pieces by disrupting, sniping, etc etc.

Personally, I like a simpler format. But hey, that's just me.

 

[banditkeith]

I'm looking forward to the new format. You can't make judgements now until things have settled for a bit. I think it'll be a good change from the format that we have gotten so used to.

For the record, I'm pretty sure Aerodactyl from Fossil blocked Evolution. If that happens, then I will agree with you. What with no way to shut down abilities as well....

 

[Jahikoi]

The one thing that I'm worried about is catcher ruining stage 2 decks. Just play a S1 deck and then rofl your pants off and text with your free hand while you play catcher to knock out their S1 pupitar/pignite/croconaw/etc, or if they candy just bring up their stage 2 which wont have enough energy.

The least they could have done is print pokemon catcher as a supporter. I would support P!P if they simply refused to print pokemon catcher.

 

[Zorua]

I'm sorry, but I have to say, no sir.

If you happened to watch J-Witz's new "Top 10 decks in the HGSS-On format", like 6-7 of them are Stage 2.

Tyranitar, Magneboar, Blastigatr, LostGar, VileGar

All are either Stage 2 decks, or a Stage 2 is a primary part of they're consistency, and these will be, The Meta Decks (Maybe not blastigatr, but still, needed an example)

HGSS-On seems like a good format for Stage 2's IMO

 

[Vortex]

I disagree with Darkvoid - some Stage 2s will be popular but so will Stage 1s. Plus, having thousands of subs doesn't make J-Wittz a genius. That's why I don't like Prof-It! He acts like an expert, but actually there are plenty of people that know what will do well in the next format. Without BTS or Spiritomb, it'll be a living nightmare. Admittedly with BW rules for Rare Candy, Stage 2s have the upper hand with the ability to donk, but I think that without using RC, it's best to play basics or Stage 1s. This is why I play a Cinccino swarm as one of my main decks. My other deck is a Magnegatr so that I can get an opinion on both types of deck. In my last test match between them, Cinccino and Feraligatr BOTH came out Turn 2 and were an even match. Cinccino won in the end, because I added a Zoroark tech that could counter Magnegatr. Anyway, the point is that Stage 2s will be just as good.

 

[Zorua]

I agree.

I never said Stage 2's will be predominant.

Heck, Stage 1's are amazing, Yanmega, Donphan, Cincinno, they're all great.

Either can be used, and both are just as good.

 

[Glace]

I think that Stage 2s will be good, but stage ones are what to worry about. Sure, there are basics that can attack for high damage, but Reshiboar needs a stage 2, and after a few uses of Skymin/Pachi, Zekrom will become less and less consistant. And why are you complaining now? SP is gone, which brings a lot of cheap basics out of the game. Sure, we have Reshiram and Zekrom, but they still require some prep. A consistant Stage 2 deck should be able to set-up quickly, though it can't turn 1. The only deck that can set-up T1 is Zekrom, which loses consistancy after T3-4. You shouldn't be that worried.

 

[Riskbreakers]

The one thing that I'm worried about is catcher ruining stage 2 decks. Just play a S1 deck and then rofl your pants off and text with your free hand while you play catcher to knock out their S1 pupitar/pignite/croconaw/etc, or if they candy just bring up their stage 2 which wont have enough energy.

The least they could have done is print pokemon catcher as a supporter. I would support P!P if they simply refused to print pokemon catcher.

Or at least the "Luxury Ball Rule" would be sufficient.

I don't really think Stage 1 decks would dominate totally. Most S1 decks not named Donphan Prime still are very soft and can get killed off easily. SOme of the slower decks could just weather the early storm and pummel you down midgame due to their heavy hitter tendencies as well. But Catcher really is a huge middle finger to Stage 2 and was a bad move for Pokemon to bring back.

Also, you've played MD+ format. I don't think you can get any more luck based than the current format where whoever goes second (as per old rules) wins because of donks. (First if we apply BW Rules)

 

[Avacado]

I think cards like cleffa help stage 2's by allowing you to get a new hand and also it stalls with sleeping face not letting your opponents stage 1's attack, even if its like 35% invincibility.

 

[Riskbreakers]

50% invincibility and 25% to be dead weight when your opponent's turn ends but Cleffa or even Manaphy is a good way to help Stage 2s out

 

[catutie]

@ Catutie: Machamp would include Donphan, so it'd be "Donchamp". Kinda falls into his "Donphan = Stage 1 = GG for Stage 2s" opinion.
Also, are you implying that SP Decks would be less strategic than HGSS-on decks? I beg to differ - SP decks are much more strategic than you may realize. My friend would go gg-ragequit on you for saying that SP needs no strategy. HGSS-on decks focus on who can counter what, and who can do more damage output. SP decks focus on breaking your opponent to tiny little pieces by disrupting, sniping, etc etc.

Personally, I like a simpler format. But hey, that's just me.

renchamp....

and yes...SP is mostly like that. the only deck that i see is the most skill based is lostgar, knowing when to drop a spiritomb or when to hurl is all beased on how you play it.

of course you always going to have that one game where your deck just REFUSES to let you set up, the problem is that that almost NEVER happens with SP. you barely have to think with SP. snipe, bright look, the usual...every time. its almost effortless. and to play against it is boring.

and i dont see the draw of cleffa...just run PONT, and stantler/collector...problem solved

 

[JWittz]

I disagree with Darkvoid - some Stage 2s will be popular but so will Stage 1s. Plus, having thousands of subs doesn't make J-Wittz a genius. That's why I don't like Prof-It! He acts like an expert, but actually there are plenty of people that know what will do well in the next format. Without BTS or Spiritomb, it'll be a living nightmare. Admittedly with BW rules for Rare Candy, Stage 2s have the upper hand with the ability to donk, but I think that without using RC, it's best to play basics or Stage 1s. This is why I play a Cinccino swarm as one of my main decks. My other deck is a Magnegatr so that I can get an opinion on both types of deck. In my last test match between them, Cinccino and Feraligatr BOTH came out Turn 2 and were an even match. Cinccino won in the end, because I added a Zoroark tech that could counter Magnegatr. Anyway, the point is that Stage 2s will be just as good.

I mention stage 1s in the episode--their archetype is grouped in at 4th in the list. Keep in mind that I'm analyzing a format WITHOUT Pokemon catcher, which has a large impact on the playability of stage 2 pokemon.

I don't claim to be a genius, but I do believe I provide credible, intelligent, and helpful insight to players. As I said in the episode, I test with many of the best players around including world and national champions, and I'm having a pretty credible season so far (1890.39 premiere rating: 8th in North America Masters and 11th in World Masters). People don't think I give good information because I have a lot of subscribers, I get a lot of subscribers because I give good information.

As I say in the video, you're always free to disagree with me to create discussion, but I don't appreciate that you're disputing the credibility of the show.

 

[Card Slinger J]

and i don't see the draw of cleffa...just run PONT, and stantler/collector...problem solved

Cleffa is Twins bait, allows you to refresh your hand from a bad start, can prevent damage while asleep, and it has free retreat. What's not to like other than Umbreon UD and Tyrogue HGSS OHKOing it? It's better than resorting to Smeargle where you have a good chance of Portraiting a Juniper from your Opponent's hand let alone the loss of Unown Q allowing you to retreat for free, same with Stantler which is mainly good on needing lots of benched Pokemon ASAP. A much better alternative over Pichu which gives your Opponent an advantage to fill their bench up with Playground.

But Catcher really is a huge middle finger to Stage 2 and was a bad move for Pokemon to bring back.

This pretty much signals the death of competitive Stage 2 decks that don't run their Stage 2's mainly as tech's like Emboar (Ability) and maybe Kingdra Prime or Magnezone Prime. I'm concerned that TPCi/P!P has killed Stage 2's permanently with the errata of Rare Candy. BR's has already proven that to me in alot of ways actually. Catcher also makes every Pokemon that can do 120 damage for little energy like Zekrom to literally become Luxray GL Lv. X at the same time not even needing to wait a turn to "Level Up" like it's "predecessor" before.

It'd be silly to run it with Blastoise cause it can already snipe however Catcher helps Pokemon that can't snipe like Zekrom but can do at least 120 damage or more for little energy or If it gets a boost from Emboar (Ability) or Feraligatr Prime that sort of thing. RDL with Catcher is just evil too cause Junk Arm + Catcher + Fisherman is insane and you get a 4 prize advantage with Space Virus. If you get another Fisherman in hand to refuel RDL with Emboar that's game unless you Catcher their Emboar and Donk with Samurott or Blastoise before they have a chance to Switch.

With Spiritomb AR out of the format from locking Trainer - Items with Keystone Seal, there is absolutely nothing stopping Stage 1/Basic Decks from ruining your setup. Ninetales is as good as dead If you're running Fire, If they use Catcher on their turn to bring up one of your key Pokemon and KO it out while you are trying to stall, how are you going to be able to switch out of that?

Thunderous can hit for 80 damage on Turn 2 more than 80% of the time. Donphan Prime is extremely easy to establish by Turn 2, the issue of speed is the biggest problem for HGSS-On. Basic/Stage 1 decks have the obvious Speed Advantage so what do you do when you have a better speed advantage than Stage 2 decks? Run Basic/Stage 1 decks since they are the most competitive in our next format.

With everybody running 4 Catcher in the format there will be no such thing as a safe "sacrificial starter" for Twins so Cleffa, Smeargle, and Stantler are moot point. Are you THAT desperate to get a setup when you won't have time for it due to an easy KO? Are we forgetting what made Luxray GL Lv. X a $50 card in the first place? Catcher is more of a threat than it may seem.

A consistant Stage 2 deck should be able to set-up quickly, though it can't turn 1. The only deck that can set-up T1 is Zekrom, which loses consistancy after T3-4. You shouldn't be that worried.

By turn 1 If you're running Tyranitar Prime, Donphan Prime will be one shot away from 2HKOing your Tyranitar Prime cause while Donphan Prime helps early game Machamp Prime makes up for it late game. Pokemon Catcher says that I don't care If you Moonlight Fang me with Umbreon, I can get around it and beat you while you have no chance to recover whatsoever.

Oh that wasn't enough? I'll discard 2 cards in my hand with Junk Arm to get back Catcher and switch your Active with a different Benched Pokemon of my choice. DONK! Play another Junk Arm to get back Catcher, DONK! Do it again, DONK! Refill my hand with Emboar (Ability) with Shuckle and DONK again...

Is it a bad time for me to say that it's on like Donkey Kong?

But yah, I do agree that Stage 1s and Basics/Legendaries will rule the meta, while Stage 2s will struggle to claim the spotlight. That doesn't really mean that Stage 2s won't be as good. As I stated, T-Tar Toolbox will be a good contender, since it can utilize Bouffalant (RDL counter), Zoroark (Reshiram/Zekrom/RDL/almost-anything-with-epic-attacks counter), Mandibuzz (Stage 1 super sniper next format), Umbreon (not rlly, but might as well include it). A good Floatoise list w/ Donphan Prime tech can be pretty fast too.

I've played T-Tar Toolbox and for HGSS-On it runs too many Pokemon to be consistent let alone running a 2-1-2 Samurott (Ability) line just for the DonChamp and Reshiram/Emboar variant matchup to cover Fighting Weakness and possibly have Type advantage while at the same time hurting deck consistency. The problem is to make sure you're not getting your Basics KO'ed with Darkness Howl to bench snipe with Mandibuzz and with Vileplume as I've tested to prevent a Switch retreat from Moonlight Fang that's impossible.

Because you aren't able to setup T-Tar out 1st or 2nd turn most of the time to get Darkness Howl going so you can Blindside with Mandibuzz later, that gives whatever advantage your Opponent has to stop you and even more so If they go first to play out all their stuff. Basically If you rely on Cleffa to setup your bench and such and If it's awake you're screwed unless you have a PONT in hand. The speed you need to keep up with your opponent is gone right away.

I think Gyarados and Houndoom/Magmortar could setup much faster than T-Tar Toolbox just because of the Stage 1 speed. For some odd reason I could never get set up in time against Houndoom/Magmortar and even when I do I always run the risk of getting Revenged KO'ed back because of either Zoroark or that Special Condition damage screws me over in the process. Though I personally think Zoroark is a better RDL counter than Bouffalant cause it relies too much on a KO for the 90 damage boost anyway and that can turn the favor over to your Opponent more.

Tyranitar, Magneboar, Blastigatr, LostGar, VileGar

LostGar should be MewGar, and speaking of which it has made less of an impact in the Masters Division compared to other decks in the current format. The main decks winning this format are Gyarados, LuxChomp, and Emboar/Forretress according to J-Wittz? T-Tar is dead, BlastiGatr is dead, pretty much most Stage 2's are dead in HGSS-On thanks to Catcher.

Reshiram, Zekrom, Stage 1 Haymaker (Yanmega Prime/Cincinno/Zoroark), DonChamp, and Emboar variants are the play for HGSS-On, everything else is garbage sadly and that includes Tyranitar and BlastiGatr. Who runs Gatr with Blastoise anymore? Why not Floatzel? >_>

 

[DNA]

Remember Aerodactyl from Fossil that shutdown Poke-Powers back in the day? Notice a new Pokemon known as Archeops that's like Aerodactyl? Fear that it might have an Ability that negates all Abilities? Yeah, why repeat history?

Ahem, Prehistoric Power just prevented both players from evolving. I believe you're thinking of Muk's Toxic Gas (which back in the day was very good but also not overbearing, as not everything had Poke-Powers).

I can definitely see your points and that they are valid, but I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that these Basic/speed Stage 1 decks will take over everything. Granted, Reshiboar is an incredibly solid deck even now, and since I'll be running Blastoise (which I do run with Floatzel, btw) next format I do have to worry about Zekrom (which will be my worst nightmare), but all the same I am not too worried, because all the top decks will have a relatively even chance against each other.

As for Stage 2 decks, Gothitelle, Vileplume, Tyranitar Prime, and Blastoise (and possibly even Serperior) will all be great contenders - they aren't very easy to kill themselves and can do quite a lot of harm before falling themselves. Gothitelle/Vileplume locks up, Blastoise snipes, Serperior tanks, and Tyranitar tanks and swings about. Oh, right, and there's Machamp Prime too.

tl;dr version: I can see and respect your points, but saying they'll take over the format is a premature judgment at this point and probably won't be correct even with cards like Catcher out.

 

[julliant]

I'm completely against this direction of the game as well but for different reasons. I'm going to be ranting a bit here so I'm expecting flames, but I hope people don't take this personally, it's just my opinion.

One thing in common I have with Card Slinger J is the hate the Pokemon Catcher. I don't think donk decks will be that powerful, but I do think that Pokemon Catcher makes games VERY one-sided. It takes away any and all chances of coming back into the game, and whoever has the most Pokemon Catchers and played them first will probably win. It takes away a lot of strategy from the game because it's not rocket science to just use the Pokemon Catcher right after you top deck it and kill the thing that your opponent just attached energy to.

My other issues with the game now:

1) Being able to play Supporters and Trainers even if you go first is a plain stupid rule. Whoever starts first would have played more Supporters, Trainers, attached more energy, attack first and even evolve first? There's basically no fairness anymore. All competitive TCG may have luck involved regardless so long as shuffling is part of the game but the whole challenge was how to overcome that luck factor by making your deck consistent, however if would be all pointless if a coin flip to decide who goes first wins you half the battle.

2) More on rule changes and rulings. TPCi really loves to narrow down the metagame, and they pretty much shot down Special Conditions because one of the strengths of Special Conditions was crippling Poke-Powers. Well too bad they don't print Poke-Powers anymore, and you can Abilities even if you're Burned, Poisoned, Asleep, Confused and Paralyzed. Yeap, you can stack all the conditions and you still don't actually do anything. Abilities are just that badass. You also made Entei & Raikou Legend and Umbreon a waste of paper pretty much, and LOL @ Palkia & Dialga Legend's weakness, and we thought we'd have a rogue idea. Zekrom and Reshiram brings me to the next point.

3) Making the game so brainless in addition to Pokemon Catcher. It's either (A) 1 energy for 60/100/120 and swarm, therefore the most auto-pilot deck would ever get, or (B) Huge monsters doing obscene damage. Outcome (A) everything you get shot before you do anything or (B) You get steamrolled by Pokemon doing 120-500 damage every turn. You either one-shot it while it's still undeveloped, or one-shot each other when set up. There's not much of a tactical sense here. You won't get to switch out when every is one-shotting each other, and building the bench won't work because of Pokemon Catcher. So it's a prize race from start to finish except for the rare exception two decks don't one shot each other. That's not much of an improvement from our dread SP era is it? It stems from the rocketing levels of HP and power. Instead of adding new features or tactics, they just try to outdo themselves. Hey forget that 130HP Stage 2 Pokemon from that last set, we got a new Stage 2 Pokemon with 160HP and cheaper attacks that do twice the damage!

 

[Card Slinger J]

1) Being able to play Supporters and Trainers even if you go first is a plain stupid rule. Whoever starts first would have played more Supporters, Trainers, attached more energy, attack first and even evolve first? There's basically no fairness anymore. All competitive TCG may have luck involved regardless so long as shuffling is part of the game but the whole challenge was how to overcome that luck factor by making your deck consistent, however if would be all pointless if a coin flip to decide who goes first wins you half the battle.

I do think this is another problem that makes games one-sided in a sense, Catcher the more so. My biggest problem with the B/W Rules however is having to discard your Supporter after use instead of keeping it in play until the end of the turn. Because of this new rule I was penalized in the 1st Round of Battle Roads last weekend, I haven't felt this bad in a sanctioned tournament since getting in trouble for having marked sleeves however this situation was much worse.

Sure they said the reason why this rule was made was due to an issue with Vs. Seeker (which is supposed to rotate out of the format) but I don't really see why the rule was necessary If it's going to hurt people especially like me who somehow have short-attention spans and is sometimes absent minded in the middle of the game. Does Japan expect us to memorize every Supporter we play each turn to make sure we don't end up making the play mistake of playing more than 1 Supporter each turn?

One of my local Judges after the fiasco made an announcement at BR's saying that keeping a Supporter in play until the end of the turn to remind ourselves that we played our Supporter for turn will not get us penalized despite what the new B/W Rules say. Since then I've tried to make sure I've played only 1 Supporter for the turn however the problem is still there in terms of being easy to forget that could cost yourself an auto loss.

2) More on rule changes and rulings. TPCi really loves to narrow down the metagame, and they pretty much shot down Special Conditions because one of the strengths of Special Conditions was crippling Poke-Powers. Well too bad they don't print Poke-Powers anymore, and you can Abilities even if you're Burned, Poisoned, Asleep, Confused and Paralyzed. Yeap, you can stack all the conditions and you still don't actually do anything. Abilities are just that badgrass. You also made Entei & Raikou Legend and Umbreon a waste of paper pretty much, and LOL @ Palkia & Dialga Legend's weakness, and we thought we'd have a rogue idea. Zekrom and Reshiram brings me to the next point.

See I never really cared that much about how Special Conditions effect the game cause in the end of it all they can just retreat or use Switch/Warp Point to get out of those Conditions anyway depending on the Special Condition I suppose. But yeah I kinda see your point too, Umbreon is pretty useless in terms of the Pokemon with Abilities in Black & White but it will still be relevant with the popular Pokemon with Powers/Bodies in the HGSS sets at least.

Hey forget that 130HP Stage 2 Pokemon from that last set, we got a new Stage 2 Pokemon with 160HP and cheaper attacks that do twice the damage!

You mean Tyranitar Prime? It's not as huge of a threat If you're running DonChamp trust me even more so for decks running Zoroark for Foul Play to copy Megaton Tail. I've already addressed the issues with T-Tar Prime however the problem is trying to cover it's own Weakness without really having to splash energies of other elements and while Samurott (Ability) seems solid for the job it really isn't when Stage 1 speed is more crucial cause alot of decks are relying more on just 1 Stage 2 line and a few Stage 1's instead of just 2 Stage 2 lines and a few Stage 1's. The Rare Candy errata just slows down your game by ALOT.

 

[Jahikoi]

It just baffles me why they thought the release of 130hp basics with 120 damage attacks would NOT break the game.



People at Nintendo MUST have played in base set-on; they MUST know that basically everyone will run 4 catcher (or catcher and junk arm) in every deck. EVERY DECK. Every game you play will be like playing Luxchomp. What's the point of protecting your bench, or printing attacks that let you attack the bench, if you can just pull everything up to the active?



If pokemon catcher was a supporter, I MAY have been fine with it. Even then, I would question it's existence...

 

[catutie]

@J....dude stop bringing up the rare candy errata. what basic is going to do 60-70 T1? really? im not seeing one. and once T2 rolls around fo you just play your rare candy...simple as that.

catcher is going to be a huge problem. i see where DNA was going that most stage 2's can take a hit but getting them back on the bench will be the problem. sure we could all run 4 switch but that would hurt our consistency.

i dont mind the new TSS on the first turn rule. it just makes you think of how to get set up faster and figure out how to make your deck better. it all comes down to really who has the best starter. if you have a tepig start to someones minun/cleffa/stantler/smeargle but the tepig side goes first...it doesnt matter the other side will get set up fast due to it being able to get the basics it needs with attacking AND using its supporter. it all depends on if you deck is running smoothly or if you deck is tripping on ever obstical that comes into play.

edit: and if catcher was a supporter....what would be the difference. obviously they are already set up if they play catcher and secondly...why would they need to play more than one catcher?